France - Explosions and shooting in Paris, 13 November 2015 #2

[Momoffourboys]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34831442


Paris attacks: Omar Ismail Mostefai's days as a banlieue gangster

Courcouronnes is the Paris suburb in which Omar Ismail Mostefai, one of the suicide bombers in the Paris attacks, grew up. It's an area that has been known for gang violence, particularly at the time when Mostefai lived there. One former gang member who knew him spoke to the BBC's James Longman.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Apologies, but I couldn't find the part that says I should try to fit into my surroundings by dress, location, and low-key actions. Sometimes you have to bend rules and ideology.

In fact it says

Yeah, as a inner city white girl, moved to a pretty much all white country town .. got labeled a witch who apparently plays with the dark forces (?), couldn't even confirm my inner city dress to conform to the conservative country mores. Not as easy as it sounds to change yourself to fit in. I've stopped trying now, they dealt with it.

 

[Momoffourboys]

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/11/16/where-are-the-guns-in-france-coming-from.html

Where are the guns in France coming from?

 

[Nana]

Go right back to where ISIS is, or stay in the west? I don't even know how refugees would get back, but I think they would choose to stay and live (at least for now) where they are.

I'm sure they would choose to stay here ant let the tax payers take care of them.
Or they could stay and fight for their country and their freedom, not run away and let other countries send their failmy to fight for them.

 

[Bohemian]

Because if they were already sure the refugees coming over were perfectly safe, why would they be stopping them now? Or are politicians just reacting to public sentiment with little regard to the reality of the situation in a grab for vote?

OK I think I just answered my own question, there is nothing wrong with the refugees heading over, and our politicians and punishing innocent folk for polularist reasons.

I agree with the answer to your own question, Mrs G. Why punish the majority of refugees, who practice a moderate form of their religion, and are themselves fleeing persecution by radicals? The only reasons to exclude them would be populist reasons, or because our intelligence/security services can't, or are incapable of, doing their jobs. If it's the former, it is inhumane and unethical. If it is the latter, then it needs to be addressed and fast.

 

[Momoffourboys]

snip

“Isil’s strategy is to split the world into two camps, it’s that black and white.”

He added: “They want countries like ours to reject their Muslims and vilify them,” before cutting to a clip of Pauline Hanson speaking in an interview.

The video ends with a riposte to MPs who are “preaching hate”.

“I am angry at these terrorists. I’m sickened by the violence and I’m crushed for the families that have been left behind. But you know what, I won’t be manipulated. We all need to come together.

“It’s exactly what Isil doesn’t want. So if you’re a member of parliament, or a has-been member of parliament preaching hate at a time when what we actually need is more love, you’re helping Isil.

“I’m pretty sure that right now, none of us wants to help these bastards.”

http://www.theguardian.com/australi...d-aly-hits-out-isis-paris-attacks-viral-video

 

[Bohemian]

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/11/16/where-are-the-guns-in-france-coming-from.html

Where are the guns in France coming from?

Originally? Obscenely wealthy arms dealers. Look up their nationalities.

 

[K_Z]

Ideology and culture is the problem. Radicalization and fundamentalist ideology are the issues that we cannot "screen" for, and effectively monitor and control-- even if we construct refugee camps for them here to keep them contained and apart from the rest of society. And we know with certainty that poverty and fundamentalist ideologies are strong precursors to radicalization-- and the refugees are both. How do we ensure imported muslims will be moderate and peaceful? We can't. So we can't import them here. It is simply too much of a risk. Far too dangerous.

We already have serious and growing problems with fundamentalist immigrant Muslims in America. Honor killings of children and wives of fundamentalist muslims are becoming a very big concern. Additionally, we have huge economic challenges with our poor muslim immigrant communities, and the predictable criminal and radicalization issues that arise from this. We don't need to import more of this than we already have, IMO. We have enough serious difficulties and challenges with the immigrant muslim population we ALREADY have. (And we have a huge immigrant population in my state.) This just is not an area where we need more "tolerance and diversity." We need firm resolve and strong leadership, tempered with distance-compassion and distance-support for the real refugees.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/11/1...port-says-growing-problem-is-hidden-in-stats/

We CAN help the legitimate refugees. We just don't need to, and SHOULD NOT import them here to do that. Helping them is best done in the middle east--for everyone's benefit, ours, and theirs.

Islamic terrorists want to kill us, all of us, in the most bloody and horrific ways imaginable. There.Is.No.Negotiating.With.Them. There is NO diplomacy that will work. It is just that simple. The attacks will get worse until we do something definitive as a united group of countries. Chem and bio attacks are coming-- and more bloody massacres. This is not a time to be foolishly and fatally soft hearted, or preach "tolerance" and "diversity" for terrorists. IMO.

But again, I've served in the Middle East, so my perspectives are shaped by that.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

IMO If we had the capability to do security and background checks on the incoming refugees, this would be less of an issue. At least for me.

I am torn.

Yes I agree, the idea that IS - ISIS - Di'ash - or whatever we're calling it this week - extremists could be joining in with the genuine refugees fleeing Syria with a view to finding their way to some other country where they could then plan the next atrocity is frightening.

 

[Momoffourboys]

Excellent post, K_Z. As usual.

 

[ZaZara]

Agence France-Presse ‏@AFP 3

The Paris assailants: what we know

 

[bluesneakers]

Trudeau holds firm on timeline for 25,000 refugees

"We have a cabinet committee that is (working) directly on these issues to do exactly what Canadians expect Canada to do, which is welcome in refugees who are fleeing a terrible, terrible conflict in Syria, but to do so in way that keeps Canadians and their communities safe," said Trudeau.

Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Minister John McCallum responded to Wall's letter, saying that "effective security screening has always been paramount" in the government's refugee resettlement plan.

"The government is committed to a rigorous, balanced and compassionate response to this humanitarian crisis," said McCallum. "This operation will be done without compromising security," he added.

(L)ess than five per cent of asylum seekers make that initial cut.

Much more at the link:
http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trudeau-holds-firm-on-timeline-for-25-000-refugees-1.2660928

 

[ZaZara]

France3-ChampArdenne ‏@France3CA 3

#Reims #ParisAttacks Perquisition en cours quartier Croix Rouge. Opération liée à l'enquête sur les attentats Paris


#Reims #ParisAttacks Search ongoing district Croix Rouge. Operation related to the investigation into the attacks in Paris


BBM

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I'm completely torn.

I want to be able to welcome people who are fleeing ISIS from Syria, especially if they have had their neighbourhoods bombed and lives destroyed. However, if we can't tell the difference between those people, and extremists hitching a ride, planning on bringing their ideology and BS to another country in order to infect it, and cause more pain and destruction over some stupid ideology that should have never made it to the 21st century, then it ain't worth it.

You know what, I was going to write maybe we should send them to an island where everything is paid for, but Australia has tried this and we are being called all sorts of names for it, so you can't win.

No idea what the solution could be.

 

[longlonglake]

How many documented incidents of backlash hate crimes have there been since Friday?
I'd really like to know. I haven't heard of any murders, or bombings, or beheadings.

There was a mosque in Canada that had fire damage, but was not burned to the ground.

Do these anti-Muslim crimes happen in every city and town?

I'd really like to know about this "backlash" that is happening.

 

[ZaZara]

BelgianRedDevils ‏@BelRedDevils
Notre match amical contre l'Espagne à été annulé. Plus d'infos via http://bit.ly/1Ocohv9 #belspa


On reguest of the Belgian government, the Belgian soccer team postpone friendly match against Spain due to terror alert.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I'm completely torn.

I want to be able to welcome people who are fleeing ISIS from Syria, especially if they have had their neighbourhoods bombed and lives destroyed. However, if we can't tell the difference between those people, and extremists hitching a ride, planning on bringing their ideology and BS to another country in order to infect it, and cause more pain and destruction over some stupid ideology that should have never made it to the 21st century, then it ain't worth it.

You know what, I was going to write maybe we should send them to an island where everything is paid for, but Australia has tried this and we are being called all sorts of names for it, so you can't win.

No idea what the solution could be.

No disrespect, Mrs G but I believe the closer the evil terror gets to "Avalon" the less torn you might be.
Just a guess...

Moo

 

[Mrs G Norris]

No disrespect, Mrs G but I believe the closer the evil terror gets to "Avalon" the less torn you might be.
Just a guess...

Moo

I hear ya!

I do feel sorry for the genuine refugees.

 

[bluesneakers]

How many documented incidents of backlash hate crimes have there been since Friday?

There was a mosque in Canada that had fire damage, but was not burned to the ground.

RSBM

Not burned to the ground:

http://tvnewsroom.org/newslines/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Peterborough-mosque-fire-under.jpg

http://www.metronews.ca/content/dam...eterborough-mosque.jpg.size.xxlarge.promo.jpg

 

[Bohemian]

Ideology and culture is the problem. Radicalization and fundamentalist ideology are the issues that we cannot "screen" for, and effectively monitor and control-- even if we construct refugee camps for them here to keep them contained and apart from the rest of society. And we know with certainty that poverty and fundamentalist ideologies are strong precursors to radicalization-- and the refugees are both. How do we ensure imported muslims will be moderate and peaceful? We can't. So we can't import them here. It is simply too much of a risk. Far too dangerous.

We already have serious and growing problems with fundamentalist immigrant Muslims in America. Honor killings of children and wives of fundamentalist muslims are becoming a very big concern. Additionally, we have huge economic challenges with our poor muslim immigrant communities, and the predictable criminal and radicalization issues that arise from this. We don't need to import more of this than we already have, IMO. We have enough serious difficulties and challenges with the immigrant muslim population we ALREADY have. (And we have a huge immigrant population in my state.) This just is not an area where we need more "tolerance and diversity." We need firm resolve and strong leadership, tempered with distance-compassion and distance-support for the real refugees.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/11/1...port-says-growing-problem-is-hidden-in-stats/

We CAN help the legitimate refugees. We just don't need to, and SHOULD NOT import them here to do that. Helping them is best done in the middle east--for everyone's benefit, ours, and theirs.

Islamic terrorists want to kill us, all of us, in the most bloody and horrific ways imaginable. There.Is.No.Negotiating.With.Them. There is NO diplomacy that will work. It is just that simple. The attacks will get worse until we do something definitive as a united group of countries. Chem and bio attacks are coming-- and more bloody massacres. This is not a time to be foolishly and fatally soft hearted, or preach "tolerance" and "diversity" for terrorists. IMO.

But again, I've served in the Middle East, so my perspectives are shaped by that.

KZ, first of all let me tell you I admire you for your service in the name of your country and I do take into consideration the views you've expressed given your experience.

The only thing is, from my perspective and particular to my country, the same has been said about different waves of immigrants/refugees from time immemorial. For example; first the Irish Catholics, then Northern and Southern Europeans (particularly Italians and Greeks), Eastern Europeans, Asians, Africans and Middle Easterners who come in waves of people fleeing war, famine, poverty and persecution. An ex-politician who railed against the 'Asian Invasion' in living memory, is now instilling fear in our community about our country being full of radical Muslims, in order to get a rare outing in our media.

Yes, there are people who want to kill us or instill fear in us, for whatever reason. Life is fragile and precious but, in the words of an old Aussie rocker, "It's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." So, with all due respect, I'll stand on my principles and not kneel to fear.