France - Five shot, four dead in French Alps, may have int'l ramifications #1

[rotterdam]

Yes, choosing them too, if only for adding the scintillating "Balkans Guy" into the theorizing.

I agree. I spent sometime in the previous Yugoslavia and folks there run the gamut of all eye and hair colors. If this was not so tragic, it is almost getting hilarious with all the revised(mis) information/hyping concocted by the media.
Bet we will never find out what really happened.
Sub machine gun now, indeed.

 

[wfgodot]

I agree. I spent sometime in the previous Yugoslavia and folks there run the gamut of all eye and hair colors. If this was not so tragic, it is almost getting hilarious with all the revised(mis) information/hyping concocted by the media.
Bet we will never find out what really happened.
Sub machine gun now, indeed.

Yes, went to university in a smallish town here in the U.S. in an area known as the Little Balkans because of the many miners from that general area who came here around the turn of the 20th c. Much variety in looks.

Albeit tragic, it's a favorite kind of story as every day there's news; or at least interesting details, newsworthy or not.

 

[~n/t~]

:lol:

I know I shouldn't laugh. Blame wfgodot

 

[Yoda]

I don't know what scenario this would fit into considering the witness and media reports are all over, but what if the 7 year old was out of the car using the 'facilities'? If they had been driving and she had to go or if they had been waiting for some time and she popped out of the car to relieve herself. She would have been out of the car, possibly out of direct view. The family is attacked, dad locks the car doors against the shooter(s). The family is shot, the cyclist is shot, the older girl is hit by ricochet or wild gun fire (which is weird considering they were shot twice in the head) and she stumbles out and the perptrator is furious at his sloppiness/collateral victims (?) and pistol whips the girl. His anger could explain why she was struck and it appears no one else was. Moo

 

[Confusion]

I don't know what scenario this would fit into considering the witness and media reports are all over, but what if the 7 year old was out of the car using the 'facilities'? If they had been driving and she had to go or if they had been waiting for some time and she popped out of the car to relieve herself. She would have been out of the car, possibly out of direct view. The family is attacked, dad locks the car doors against the shooter(s). The family is shot, the cyclist is shot, the older girl is hit by ricochet or wild gun fire (which is weird considering they were shot twice in the head) and she stumbles out and the perptrator is furious at his sloppiness/collateral victims (?) and pistol whips the girl. His anger could explain why she was struck and it appears no one else was. Moo

That sounds more feasible than my last thought on it. I was thinking that there was another man in the front seat of the car, and the 7 year-old was in the middle (maybe just moving over because they had picked up the other man. He pulls out the gun, and the father reaches over, opens the door and pushes him out. The guy grabs the first thing he can reach, which is the girl, trying to stay inside. The father is so focused on escaping that he doesn't realize immediately that she's gone. Once he pushes the guy, he stops and baks up to turn around and get away.

The gun could have gone off and shot her as they were falling (or when they landed), the girl lands on her head, starts to stand up, and is immediately hit in the head with the car door as it's backing up. The guy is already out of the way, gets up and starts shooting as soon as the car gets past him. Once the father is dead, he could just walk over and shoot him again, and then the women. As he's walking over to finish killing the girl and to find the little one, the cyclist appears. He calls him over for help and shoots him too.

I know there are holes in this theory too. If he had it planned out ahead of time, he could have hidden a bike close by to use as an escape.

 

[JulieR]

I still think it will come down to follow the money.... By the sounds of it they didn't need money they were sitting on a large inheritance. So there was no reason to do anything shady and by all accounts he sounded like an upright man. Did any of the papers say when the mother in law came to stay? The younger girl didn't know her well so I wonder if she just got there.

 

[wfgodot]

Follow the money, yes; but cui bono? definitely.

 

[Snoopster]

possible,
but most of France has excellent cellular phone coverage, except in the thick of underground tunnels, and also different providers vary-one provider might have quite good reception in an area while another very little to intermittent

Perhaps that is why Saad went out a number of times? To check various areas and their level/quality of cell phone coverage?

This is about all I can manage tonight. I am tired, and this case is difficult enough to figure out, with all of the twists and turns and ever-changing storyline, with a clear head!

Who knows what tomorrow will bring? Perhaps it will all make sense in the morning.
(wfgdot: please insert some smart, intellectual quote here for me. I'm too tired.)

fftobed:

 

[wfgodot]

(wfgdot: please insert some smart, intellectual quote here for me. I'm too tired.)

fftobed:

Smart and intellectual? I can only fake one of the two at a time.

 

[Sillybilly]

IIRC, i believe it was stated early on that Saad's deceased father owned property in France, Iraq and Switzerland. I wonder if the property in France was sold or was in the process of being sold. It seems odd that the family would own property in France, but Saad and his family would be staying in a campground.

 

[JulieR]

IIRC, i believe it was stated early on that Saad's deceased father owned property in France, Iraq and Switzerland. I wonder if the property in France was sold or was in the process of being sold. It seems odd that the family would own property in France, but Saad and his family would be staying in a campground.

I think the Iraq property was pretty worthless. Maybe that's why he was said to be coming and going from the campground....selling the France property.

 

[rotterdam]

Follow the money, yes; but cui bono? definitely.

Cui bono ,indeed. And I wonder if the family inheritance is not grossly exaggerated. Depending which media source you believe, Saad's deceased dad retired to Spain and other sources quoted a modest condo near Malaga. Folks with bucks do not retire to Spain, which used to be a low cost area for retirement and I suspect it still is.
The stuff they used to own many moons ago in Iraq is just pie in the sky IMO. Fat chance getting that back.
Their first camping ground depart has now morphed into that they fled it for the other one. Earlier reports stated they had a discount coupon for the first one. They drive a recent nice BMW vehicle but the camper does not look exactly like one for the rich and famous.
And mysterious ( from the Balkan) man who might be Italian. He dressed in such a way (all black/smart jacket) that he stood out like a sore thumb among the merry holiday makers.
So much for covert reconnaissance. Red herrings galore IMO.

 

[rotterdam]

IIRC, i believe it was stated early on that Saad's deceased father owned property in France, Iraq and Switzerland. I wonder if the property in France was sold or was in the process of being sold. It seems odd that the family would own property in France, but Saad and his family would be staying in a campground.

It was earlier published that he owned a house in Dordogne. Could be nice or a lean-to, who knows. They will be investigating the route they took from Calais and onwards. They could have stopped in Dordogne.
For caravan aficionados, nothing beats the freedom of continued traveling as opposed to staying put in a boring vacation house.

 

[Yoda]

Interesting police/jurisdiction info:


"In France we have a national police force: the police. We also have gendarmes.
The police fall under the Ministry of Interior. Gendarmes fall under the Ministry of*Defense (Defence).
Gendarmes, like soldiers, remain in uniform and live in a barrack and they hold military ranks like soldiers.
They keep law and order in the countryside and in towns (communes) of fewer than 20,000 inhabitants.
It was therefore the local gendarmerie which replied to Philippe D’s telephone call.
Now this is odd: *Normally the gendarmerie hands over an investigation to the police. *In this case they would have handed the investigation over to the police of the nearest big town – Annecy or Grenoble or even Lyon (Lyons).
But in this case they did not.
In other words, the case is being investigated by the Ministry of Defense and not the Ministry of Interior. *Secrecy is thus ensured."


http://www.marilynztomlins.com/articles/chevaline-the-forgotten-victim-sylvain-mollier/

 

[tarabull]

Sylvain Mollier, death at the turn
September 6, 2012

Read more here

[translated article]

 

[Confusion]

Originally Posted by Elley Mae
I don't know about shooting from bicycles but what I would like to know is why the over kill on the bicyclist (5 shoots to the back)? iirc. Maybe he was the target. idk

If that were the case, maybe the family was sitting there waiting to meet up with the French cyclist for whatever reason, possibly about selling the French property. The 7 year-old got out of the car to let him sit in there and she was going to sit in back. The shooter doesn't want to take a chance on him getting in and them taking off with him so he shoots him and one of the bullets hits the girl in the shoulder. The rest of the assaults were to get rid of witnesses. I hope that when they do make an arrest eventually, the guy tells why he hit the little girl in the head rather than shooting her like he did to the rest. As much damage as there was, it seems like it was meant to kill her, but (unless he ran out of ammo, which would be a pretty dumb move), it doesn't make much sense. Not that any of the deaths really made any sense either.

 

[graceholl]

Press conference today should clear up a few things...but I'm not holding my breath!

Seems the shootings in Corsica are unrelated. Sky News was quick to drop it from its major headlines.

 

[graceholl]

Gun used on al-Hilli is Serbian Mafia's signature weapon

Read more: http://www.theweek.co.uk/crime/anne...serbian-mafias-signature-weapon#ixzz26FFEvpMM

ETA: A must read!!!

 

[rotterdam]

Interesting police/jurisdiction info:


"In France we have a national police force: the police. We also have gendarmes.
The police fall under the Ministry of Interior. Gendarmes fall under the Ministry of*Defense (Defence).
Gendarmes, like soldiers, remain in uniform and live in a barrack and they hold military ranks like soldiers.
They keep law and order in the countryside and in towns (communes) of fewer than 20,000 inhabitants.
It was therefore the local gendarmerie which replied to Philippe D’s telephone call.
Now this is odd: *Normally the gendarmerie hands over an investigation to the police. *In this case they would have handed the investigation over to the police of the nearest big town – Annecy or Grenoble or even Lyon (Lyons).
But in this case they did not.
In other words, the case is being investigated by the Ministry of Defense and not the Ministry of Interior. *Secrecy is thus ensured."

http://www.marilynztomlins.com/articles/chevaline-the-forgotten-victim-sylvain-mollier/

Tks for link .Interesting article. Refers to mr Mollier as basically a metallurgist and not security at Avera/Cezus. And not at Crezus?? either per her article.
Not sure about her statement referring the local Gendarmerie and that ominous "secrecy is thus ensured" statement either. Police Nationale (formerly called Sûreté of Pink Panther/Clouseau fame) and Gendarmerie Nationale are both under Ministry of Interior since 2009 per Wiki.
Actually not unusual set up in Western European countries. Other countries have similar set ups but refer to it as the Marechaussee instead of gendarmerie.

From Wiki
"In France, the National Gendarmerie (French: Gendarmerie nationale, French pronunciation: [ʒɑ̃daʁməʁi nasjɔnal]) is a branch of the French Armed Forces, in charge of public safety, with police duties among the civilian population. It also contains a military police force and a special forces component (GIGN). It has a strength of more than 105,975 persons (in 2007).[2] The Gendarmerie works with the other national law enforcement agency, the Police Nationale, and from 2009, although it is a part of the armed forces establishment, it is now a part of the Ministry of the Interior as its military component and forms part of its operations and budget. It is mandated to fulfill national security duties and duties in support of its parent ministry".

Sorry Marilyn, do not consider you a reliable source.
Now I have a question. Anybody seen any reference as to age of the ex RAF dude? He could very well be a pretty old geeser. Mr Mollier at 47 sprinted right past him.

 

[Snoopster]

Perhaps that is why Saad went out a number of times? To check various areas and their level/quality of cell phone coverage?

This is about all I can manage tonight. I am tired, and this case is difficult enough to figure out, with all of the twists and turns and ever-changing storyline, with a clear head!

Who knows what tomorrow will bring? Perhaps it will all make sense in the morning.
(wfgdot: please insert some smart, intellectual quote here for me. I'm too tired.)

fftobed:

OT -- see how tired I was, I even spelled your name wrong. Sorry wfgodot!