GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, jogger, fatally shot by former PD and son, Brunswick, Feb 2020 #2

[stygianowl]

I don't believe a word the nyt prints. jmo

Any reason for this opinion? You don't think its fact checkers do a good job?

 

[firebird]

Any reason for this opinion? You don't think its fact checkers do a good job?

I'm pretty sure I can't get too far into it here without violating the TOS. But no, I think it's "fact checkers" are a very unfunny joke. jmo

 

[angelainwi]

I'm pretty sure I can't get too far into it here without violating the TOS. But no, I think it's "fact checkers" are a very unfunny joke. jmo

How do you think the fact checkers do at Fox News?

 

[Cryptic]

That’s behind a paywall for me. Plus..nyt, so.

You must have exceeded your number of free articles.

In either case, the article is detailed. It interviews a woman who identified that AA grew up in a home in the neighborhood. Likewise, the article corresponds with the independent source of two women in Satillo Shores who state that AA had jogged there before.

 

[firebird]

How do you think the fact checkers do at Fox News?

Fox news doesn't have a newspaper that I'm aware of. I don't watch TV at all.

 

[firebird]

You must have exceeded your number of free articles.

In either case, the article is detailed. It interviews a woman who identified that AA grew up in a home in the neighborhood. Likewise, the article corresponds with the independent source of two women in Satillo Shores who state that AA had jogged there before.

Maybe. You only get 3, I think. And it's linked constantly here. I did see the two anonymous women who say AA was a frequent jogger in the n'hood. But I didn't see the one "who identified that AA grew up in the neighborhood." What neighborhood, and did he live there when he was shot?

 

[angelainwi]

Fox news doesn't have a newspaper that I'm aware of. I don't watch TV at all.

I was referring to their website and news articles that they share online. Sorry that I was not specific that I was not referring to any kind of print media. I haven't purchased a newspaper in years. I subscribe to all of my media online now, less waste to the environment.

 

[firebird]

Finally, we have some common ground!

Like you, I have never entered a home under construction and have never even thought about doing so.

Apparently unlike you, I have children who routinely jog / run through neighborhoods where they don't live as their Cross Country teams runs from their school. They run through very wealthy and working class areas. Nobody has ever deemed they "don't belong" and conducted surveillance on them etc.

Like you, I view trespass entry into a home under construction strange and would call police. Heck, I have reported young men afoot and loitering in an alley after a rash of bicycle / lawn tool thefts.

And now, the big question.....

Q. Would I load one of my weapons, get in a car, chase after, and repeatedly try to corner a trespasser who was obviously leaving the area?
A. Absolutely not.

Glad we have at least something in common. lol. I run, but mostly at the gym. There's a high school right outside my gate and the cross-country runners do run in the area, but not in neighborhoods. Maybe that's because most of the neighborhoods here are behind guarded or unguarded gates. I still wonder why he didn't run in his own neighborhood, but that coupled with the repeated tresspassing is very odd.

Eta: I don't own guns and I'm sure I wouldn't have done what the M's did. So maybe we have two or three things in common

 

[firebird]

I was referring to their website and news articles that they share online. Sorry that I was not specific that I was not referring to any kind of print media. I haven't purchased a newspaper in years. I subscribe to all of my media online now, less waste to the environment.

As far as I'm concerned, the msm is all garbage. That's why I like articles with direct quotes or with documents or vidoes at links. I don't believe a single thing from any msm source unless I've verified as best I can on my own. jmo

 

[tlcya]

GM didn’t have the power to arrest for 8 years while employed by the DA’s office and again more recently in 2019 until he retired. Specifically because he didn’t complete the retired training and wasn’t qualified to do so and yet the DA’s office didn’t think his botched citizen’s arrest and killing of an unarmed young man warranted an arrest. I don’t care what his health and or family issues were he clearly doesn’t think rules apply to him. Then the DA who didn’t pursue this writes a CYO letter with no actual proof of the claims within the letter and some people don’t question that at all but question everything about the victim from the clothes he wore to his mental health.

I wish I had a heart emoji or love button for this.

 

[stygianowl]

I'm pretty sure I can't get too far into it here without violating the TOS. But no, I think it's "fact checkers" are a very unfunny joke. jmo

As far as I'm concerned, the msm is all garbage. That's why I like articles with direct quotes or with documents or vidoes at links. I don't believe a single thing from any msm source unless I've verified as best I can on my own. jmo

Huh. Well, your preference for articles with direct quotes and links to relevant documents and videos is surely an intelligent one- even the best news sources can certainly get it wrong. But can’t say I think it’s an accident that the NYT, the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, LA Times, to name a few, have excellent reputations for their news reporting, and are generally regarded as reliable sources. Yes, going further into this is likely too far removed a discussion from the present topic, but I brought it up earlier because, where possible, people being roughly on the same page when it comes to what the facts are can sure help in the effort to have a productive discussion about a case.

Anyway, the NYT article refers to AA’s neighborhood as "Fancy Bluff":

"Mr. Arbery, … lived on the other side of a four-lane highway [from Satilla Shores] in a traditionally black community called Fancy Bluff… ...For much of his life, Mr. Arbery lived with his mother in a small house ...about two miles from Satilla Shores."

 

[sds71]

“When I saw (the texts), I immediately understood that an organization had been developing in that neighborhood since at least December,” Graddy told Channel 2. “It appears that Gregory McMichael had been informally 'deputized' by the Glynn County Police Department.”
LaGrance Police Chief Lou Dekmar, a past president of the International Association of Chiefs of Police, voiced a concern that officers seemingly offloaded what was a legitimate police call onto an effectively private citizen.
“I’m not aware of any accepted policy for referring someone that requires a police response to delegate that response to a former law enforcement officer who happens to live in the neighborhood,” said Dekmar.
Ahmaud Arbery case: Texts suggest Georgia police enlisted help from suspect months before shooting, report says

 

[firebird]

Huh. Well, your preference for articles with direct quotes and links to relevant documents and videos is surely an intelligent one- even the best news sources can certainly get it wrong. But can’t say I think it’s an accident that the NYT, the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, LA Times, to name a few, have excellent reputations for their news reporting, and are generally regarded as reliable sources. Yes, going further into this is likely too far removed a discussion from the present topic, but I brought it up earlier because, where possible, people being roughly on the same page when it comes to what the facts are can sure help in the effort to have a productive discussion about a case.

Anyway, the NYT article refers to AA’s neighborhood as "Fancy Bluff":

"Mr. Arbery, … lived on the other side of a four-lane highway [from Satilla Shores] in a traditionally black community called Fancy Bluff… ...For much of his life, Mr. Arbery lived with his mother in a small house ...about two miles from Satilla Shores."

Imo, the NYT, et al. USED to have an excellent reputation (well-deserved, or not). But in the past 15 years that I've been paying attention, I slowly limited my reading to the arts and leisure section, then gave it up altogether, including the crossword puzzle, about 10 years ago. As much as I love the puzzle, I couldn't justify giving the NYT another dime. So bringing it back to this thread, I'll believe what they NYT prints when I see independent evidence of it myself. Thanks for the info about Fancy Bluff.

eta: Apropos of this convo, I could have sworn I read that AA grew up in an apartment. Checking...

etaa: yep - so he grew up in an apartment, but lived "most of his life" in Fancy Bluff.

"He was just a real genuine person," said Baker, who grew up in the same apartment complex as Arbery. "He spoke and did everything from a place of love."



Ahmaud Arbery shooting: Mother, friend describe 'humble' 'hype man'

 

[Boxer]

GBI releases new details after father, son charged with murder of Ahmaud Arbery

It's purely speculation that anyone ever pointed a gun at AA.

Does not matter.
TM brings the shotgun outside the truck to threaten AA and to make AA submit.
When TM moves to the front driver side of the truck he is tracking AA who is dodging around the passenger side to avoid him.

 

[tlcya]

Pointed a shotgun - didn't point a shotgun. Unlawfully attempted to detain a non felony committing private citizen while armed, including stating to responding officers that they gave chase and when he reversed direction to evade them he was effectively blocked by Roddy.

The threat to AA is very clearly implied whether the Ms danced with their weapons and blew kisses at him or pointed them at Arbery. My own very strongly felt opinion.

ETA he was fighting for his life and lost. He had every American and God given right to do so.

 

[firebird]

Pointed a shotgun - didn't point a shotgun. Unlawfully attempted to detain a non felony committing private citizen while armed, including stating to responding officers that they gave chase and when he reversed direction to evade them he was effectively blocked by Roddy.

The threat to AA is very clearly implied whether the Ms danced with their weapons and blew kisses at him or pointed them at Arbery. My own very strongly felt opinion.

ETA he was fighting for his life and lost. He had every American and God given right to do so.

The OP said the gun was pointed at AA as a fact. The response said that was not a fact. It's my understanding that under the TOS we can't state non-facts as fact - regardless of our opinion about whether the fact is material. Am I wrong?

 

[tlcya]

The OP said the gun was pointed at AA as a fact. The response said that was not a fact. It's my understanding that under the TOS we can't state non-facts as fact - regardless of our opinion about whether the fact is material. Am I wrong?

My point being, it shouldn't even reach their self defense argument. THEY initiated and precipitated his need to defend himself while being pursued by openly armed men who had no right to do so. I am saying there are a lot of real issues for the defense to get past before they can even argue self defense stand your ground. IMO it will be shown that AA was indeed the first to be in the position of self defense and standing his ground.

 

[firebird]

My point being, it shouldn't even reach their self defense argument. THEY initiated and precipitated his need to defend himself while being pursued by openly armed men who had no right to do so. I am saying there is a lot of real issues for the defense to get past before they can even argue self defense stand your ground. IMO it will be shown that AA was indeed the first to be in the position of self defense and standing his ground.

Maybe. But that doesn't have anything to do with whether the gun being pointed is fact or not. I'll step out of this convo and let the poster you were addressing clarify what they meant if s/he wants to.

 

[Nadi]

The OP said the gun was pointed at AA as a fact. The response said that was not a fact. It's my understanding that under the TOS we can't state non-facts as fact - regardless of our opinion about whether the fact is material. Am I wrong?

If I have the correct post, the OP said "I more suspect.....". That's not a statement of fact.

Lots of posters have posted things as fact, I'm pretty sure 11 miles away was posted as fact and not backed up by any source.

 

[Boxer]

The OP said the gun was pointed at AA as a fact. The response said that was not a fact. It's my understanding that under the TOS we can't state non-facts as fact - regardless of our opinion about whether the fact is material. Am I wrong?

Post #299
I did qualify that it was my opinion only "MOO" that TM leveled the shotgun as he went to the front of the truck.