GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, jogger, fatally shot by former PD and son, Brunswick, Feb 2020 #2

[branmuffin]

You miss the point. The reason for the shooting was Arbery's attack and him trying to grab the gun

The shooting was the end result of a group of men who were armed and hopped up on a misdirected sense of justice based on an assumption. It would have been easier to follow AA while updating LE of his location instead of acting like a modern day posse.

Many victims of crime have defensive wounds on their hands to ward off an attack whether by a knife or a gun.

 

[stygianowl]

If she hadn’t snapped and posted a pic of his dead body with her smiling emoji next to it, no one would know who she is. She wanted attention. She got it.
Of course she’s probably lying about the threats.

Where was this picture of the body with a smiling emoji posted?

 

[Strangeworld]

You miss the point. The reason for the shooting was Arbery's attack and him trying to grab the gun

BBM
Link please

With all due respect, I'm confused how we can't say that Arbery was fearful and defending himself, yet you are saying you know the reason his attackers acted? I'm truly confused by this logic....

 

[andybinga]

Sounds like Travis was laying in wait.

How can you lay in wait when you are visible over 90 feet ahead? It was AA's decision to keep going towards the truck, pass on the right of it, turn a hard left and attack.

 

[Leve]

Show us the police calls where someone accused someone of trespassing. Never happened. Instead a neighbor saw someone going into a building they were not supposed to be in.


Burglary is typically defined as the unlawful entry into almost any structure (not just a home or business) with the intent to commit any crime inside (not just theft/larceny). No physical breaking and entering is required; the offender may simply trespass through an open door. Unlike robbery, which involves use of force or fear to obtain another person's property, there is usually no victim present during a burglary.

For example, Dan enters Victor's boathouse through an open window, intending to steal Victor's boat. Finding the boat is gone, Dan returns home. Though he took nothing, Dan has committed burglary.

Again, nobody has accused AA of entering the home under construction to commit any crime. So we're are you getting they suspected him of burglary?

 

[Hope4More]

I wasn't speaking to legal intent. I was speaking to what I think happened. Just as the OP was.

My bad about the sound. I guess it was turned off on the video I watched. The fact that they told him to stop running supports what I think happened, imo. If you wanted to shoot him, just shoot him already. Don't ask him to stop running. And, just as an aside, sh-thead is a rather mild expletive for someone you're planning to murder in cold blood momentarily. jmo

I don't think, and have never said, that they jumped into a truck with guns intending to hunt AA down and kill him. What I've said, consistently, is that they had no right of any kind, including legal, to jump into their truck with guns to pursue, trap, and confront AA. With a shotgun, fingers on trigger.

In that situation, it was AA, not either GM or TM who was entitled to defend himself. AA tried to avoid the confrontation. Twice. He had no obligation to keep running when confronted that 3rd time, and every reason to believe he would be shot in the back if he tried.

He should never have been put in that life or death situation. The moral responsibility for the fact he was IMO rests entirely upon GM and TM, as does the legal responsibility for AA's death.

 

[Boxer]

Is there another video angle? If so, can you please share it?

Obviously, no one except those who were there have any idea what, if anything, was said or heard. And certainly, no one can get into AA's head. Personally, I have no idea why he didn't just stop running and wait for the police rather than foolishly attempting to take on someone with a weapon. They had plenty of chances to have shot him already if that's what they intended to do. Plus, AA was on a residential street with lots of houses close together in a suburban area of Georgia, not by himself in some remote backwoods. Imo, the M's were probably shocked that AA tried to take Travis's gun. I don't think they intended for it to end like that, at all. all jmo

Agree in part. But how would AA know police were coming?

 

[Strangeworld]

How can you lay in wait when you are visible over 90 feet ahead? It was AA's decision to keep going towards the truck, pass on the right of it, turn a hard left and attack.

Just wanted to clarify that there appears to be missing parts of the objective narrative in your summary (but thank you for providing your summary). There's a video that shows the order of events. It's a completely objective visual representation of the order of actions of each person. And just to clarify, those persons involved include a victim (Ahmaud Arbery) and two charged individuals (Gregory McMichael, 64, and his son Travis McMichael, 34, both charged with murder and aggravated assault in Arbery’s death). Just thought I'd clarify this to ensure you had all the reported facts of the case - we like to help each other out here on WS

 

[Leve]

You miss the point. The reason for the shooting was Arbery's attack and him trying to grab the gun

Nah, the reason for the shooting was Travis jumped out of his pickup truck with a loaded weapon and his finger on the trigger.

AA had every right to defend himself and try to disarm a man that was threatening him.

 

[andybinga]

Lots of things to consider, what was being said by either GM or TM? Was Travis racking the shotgun? etc.

In Georgia one can legally open carry of a firearm. That is not a reason to attack them

 

[andybinga]

Arbery avoided conflict twice he was pursued and trapped on Holmes, then he fought.

Arbery attacked someone and tried to take their gun.

 

[andybinga]

TM was attempting an unlawful act. He was using his shotgun to menace Arbery into complying.

Prove he was "menacing". The video clearly showed he did not point it and AA attacked him and tried to take the gun

 

[branmuffin]

Is there another video angle? If so, can you please share it?

Obviously, no one except those who were there have any idea what, if anything, was said or heard. And certainly, no one can get into AA's head. Personally, I have no idea why he didn't just stop running and wait for the police rather than foolishly attempting to take on someone with a weapon. They had plenty of chances to have shot him already if that's what they intended to do. Plus, AA was on a residential street with lots of houses close together in a suburban area of Georgia, not by himself in some remote backwoods. Imo, the M's were probably shocked that AA tried to take Travis's gun. I don't think they intended for it to end like that, at all. all jmo

Why is AA being being painted as foolish for wanting to get away from 3 men with weapons? Why is it only AA whose actions are being questioned in the face of being chased by vehicles and men with guns? Why aren't you questioning the motives of the men who killed him?

You presume that it would have been better for a black man being chased by several white men with weapons to stop and meekly submit to whatever they had in mind. I don't live in America but I am well aware of the divisions that still exist in that country. You have to be deliberately obtuse not to see that.

And when did you decide that AA tried to take Travis' gun? Was it before or after the first shot? Because I've watched that video many times and whatever happened is not visible. At some point in time, the whole day needs to be rewound to establish the sequence of events that led to the tragedy and when I do that it is NEVER when AA is in front of the truck. It's when a group of men, some who have not been identified as being just as culpable as the McMichaels decided to hunt and corral a man for a crime that they felt met the level of response that happened. Vigilante justice is no justice at all.

 

[andybinga]

I don't think, and have never said, that they jumped into a truck with guns intending to hunt AA down and kill him. What I've said, consistently, is that they had no right of any kind, including legal, to jump into their truck with guns to pursue, trap, and confront AA. With a shotgun, fingers on trigger.

In that situation, it was AA, not either GM or TM who was entitled to defend himself. AA tried to avoid the confrontation. Twice. He had no obligation to keep running when confronted that 3rd time, and every reason to believe he would be shot in the back if he tried.

He should never have been put in that life or death situation. The moral responsibility for the fact he was IMO rests entirely upon GM and TM, as does the legal responsibility for AA's death.

AA ran over 90 feet, went to the right side of a truck, went he reached the front he cut hard left and attacked TM and tried to take his gun.

 

[andybinga]

Why dis you get my link off?


At 1.14 pm, the second call is answered at the call center.

The caller again did not respond to the dispatcher, instead yelling: "Stop. Stop that. Dammit. Stop."

A moment later he shouts "Travis!" apparently addressing Travis McMichael.

911 call released of moments before black jogger Ahmaud Arbery was killed

 

[Strangeworld]

Prove he was "menacing". The video clearly showed he did not point it and AA attacked him and tried to take the gun

Oh great, I was hoping someone had the panorama view of the video when Arbery and McMichael step out of camera shot! Could you please share this, because it would really help to fill in those gaps that all of us can't see in the current version of the video. Thanks in advance!

 

[andybinga]

Why is AA being being painted as foolish for wanting to get away from 3 men with weapons? Why is it only AA whose actions are being questioned in the face of being chased by vehicles and men with guns? Why aren't you questioning the motives of the men who killed him?

You presume that it would have been better for a black man being chased by several white men with weapons to stop and meekly submit to whatever they had in mind. I don't live in America but I am well aware of the divisions that still exist in that country. You have to be deliberately obtuse not to see that.

And when did you decide that AA tried to take Travis' gun? Was it before or after the first shot? Because I've watched that video many times and whatever happened is not visible. At some point in time, the whole day needs to be rewound to establish the sequence of events that led to the tragedy and when I do that it is NEVER when AA is in front of the truck. It's when a group of men, some who have not been identified as being just as culpable as the McMichaels decided to hunt and corral a man for a crime that they felt met the level of response that happened. Vigilante justice is no justice at all.

Why was he running a good 90 feet at a truck visable in the road? Wht did he cut to the right of it and when he got in front why did he attack TM and try to take his gun?

 

[andybinga]

The video made by William Bryan clearly shows the shooting in real-time. From said video it appears Ahmaud Arbery was running along the right side of the McMichael truck then abruptly turns 90 degrees to the left and attacks Travis McMichael who was standing at the front left corner of the truck . A brief skirmish ensues in which it appear Arbery strikes McMichael and appears to grab the shotgun and pull it from McMichael The shot is through Arbery s right hand palm which is consistent with him grabbing and pulling the shotgun at the barrel tip , the 2nd and 3rd wounds are consistent with the struggle for the shotgun as depicted in the video , the angle of the 2nd shot with the rear of the butt-stock being pushed away and down from the fight are also consistent with the upward angle of blood plume shown in the video and that McMichael was attempting to push the gun away from Arbery while Arbery was pulling it toward himself.



The 3rd shot too appears to be in a struggle over the gun . The angle of the shots and the video show this was from the beginning or almost immediately became-- a fight over the shotgun .



Given the fact Arbery initiated the fight, at the point Arbery grabbed the shotgun, under Georgia Law , McMichael was allowed to use deadly force to protect himself.



Just as importantly, while we know McMichael had his finger on the trigger, we do not know who caused the firings. Arbery would only had to pull the shotgun approximately 1/ 16th to 1/ 8th of one inch to fire weapon himself and in the height of an altercation this is entirely possible . Arbery s mental health records & prior convictions help explain his apparent aggressive nature and his possible thought pattern to attack an armed man .



OCGA 16 - 3- 21

Use of Force in Defense, once confronted with a deadly force situation an individual is allowed to use deadly force to defend themselves or others



OCGA 16 - 3- 23 . 1

Georgia' s No Duty to Retreat Law , an individual is not required to back away from or submit to an attack.



OCGA 16 - 3- 24 .2

A person properly and legally defending themselves is immune from prosecution

 

[andybinga]

He had walked into someone’s unfinished house, then spent 4 minutes and 16 seconds in that house and then came out running at full speed when a car drove by. Prior to entering that house he was seen WALKING down the street towards that house. He lived a minimum of 11.2 miles away as evidenced by his zip code in the police report (31525) and the address of the house he went in (220 Satilla Dr, Brunswick, GA 31523). The border between the area codes is GA-25 spur. The 11.2 miles is calculated from the address to the nearest point of the GA-25 spur.





From the 31525 area code there are only two ways to go over the large East River to the address. Either I-95 or GA-303.Either an expressway or a major road





I don't buy the jogging story one bit. A neighbor called the police minutes before the shooting saying he was suspicious of Arbery’s “saggy pants,” according to a report. According to the Daily Mail when he was asked why he was suspicious, he told Mail: “He wasn’t out for a jog, put it like that … You don’t go jogging wearing saggy pants, saggy shorts.” This person also stated “I saw the fella earlier before it happened, and I called the police probably about 10 minutes before it happened,” the man told the outlet. “I didn’t call 911, I called the non-emergency number.



A minimum round trip distance is 22.4 miles, ran in the afternoon, wearing cargo shorts, in a residential area where you don't live in.



You do know that Arbery's family has the same lawyer that Martin's family and Brown's family had don't you? Ben Crump. The lawyer that hires P.R. firms to promote his lies in major media. Crump actually stooped low enough to bring in a fake witness on the Martin case. He should be disbarred.

 

[Cryptic]

Personally, I have no idea why he didn't just stop running and wait for the police rather than foolishly attempting to take on someone with a weapon.

My guess is that he did not want to be executed for trespassing- especially after the fact.

They had plenty of chances to have shot him already if that's what they intended to do.

Hard to fire a shotgun when you are driving a vehicle.