GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, jogger, fatally shot by former PD and son, Brunswick, Feb 2020 #2

[Cryptic]

LE hasn't even arrested Roddy yet, and his own video proves he was involved in chasing AA down and cornering him. And "party to" is multiple degrees of legal separation from Roddy's situation.

I agree.

Even R can claim that he was only party to a legal, but hyper vigilant trespasser response and party to a legal, but poorly advised citizens arrest attempt- but not party to armed confrontation.

My guess is that 'Party to' type charges agains others would need proof that say,

- MMs had told them that once the trespassers had been spotted, they would do "what ever it took" to do a citizens arrest. or

- MMs had explicitly announced that they would confront the trespasser with weapons- and needed their help to do so. or

- They knew the MMs were armed and directly encouraged them to chase down and confront the trespasser.

 

[branmuffin]

Imo, the NYT, et al. USED to have an excellent reputation (well-deserved, or not). But in the past 15 years that I've been paying attention, I slowly limited my reading to the arts and leisure section, then gave it up altogether, including the crossword puzzle, about 10 years ago. As much as I love the puzzle, I couldn't justify giving the NYT another dime. So bringing it back to this thread, I'll believe what they NYT prints when I see independent evidence of it myself. Thanks for the info about Fancy Bluff.

eta: Apropos of this convo, I could have sworn I read that AA grew up in an apartment. Checking...

etaa: yep - so he grew up in an apartment, but lived "most of his life" in Fancy Bluff.

"He was just a real genuine person," said Baker, who grew up in the same apartment complex as Arbery. "He spoke and did everything from a place of love."



Ahmaud Arbery shooting: Mother, friend describe 'humble' 'hype man'

Is there some kind of negativity assigned to growing up in an apartment?

 

[Vern]

How many houses do you reckon AA passed during this 4 minute chase? Are there any reports of him yelling for help or banging on any doors? Cutting thru neighbors yard to an adjacent street? Seems like he just keeps a steady jog going on in the road and back tracks once?

I'm not a jogger but I could almost get half way out of my addition in 4 minutes. Just guestimating but that's atleast 40 houses considering there's houses on both sides of the road. And those houses are practically sitting on top of one another.

For those many people that say you would have done the exact same and run directly at someone holding a shotgun, weave right and juke left to attack that person. Wouldn't you be yelling for help and beating on some doors before actually running into a situation where you knew it was certain death? Logic says no.

Are you implying that a young black man doesn't have a right to stand his ground by continuing on with his jog? That it is he who should forego that right?

Perhaps he was blissfully unaware of them actually hunting him until they actually boxed him in and that is the point where he turns around and runs the other direction only to have them chase him down again, pass him and stop and emerge from truck with weapons. Perhaps that is the first indication he has that his life was at risk. And, even at that point in time, he had full right to stand his ground and attempt to protect his life.

I'm getting the impression that you rather think he had a duty to retreat. That's 1000000% incorrect.

It would have been soooooo easy for the McM's to continue following a young black man who was on foot for miles and miles while updating police on their whereabouts --- after all, they were on the phone with the law. THEY chose not to do this. Minimum amount of force necessary to effect an arrest; perhaps, had McM senior actually attended that training that cost him his powers of arrest, he'd have abided by that principle and done the right thing.

 

[dmac55]

Off topic re: limited free articles from a news source
I learned this from websleuths

Sometimes if you clear the cookies for the site you can read more articles, and also what has been foolproof for me, is to type the title of the article into a Chrome incognito tab

 

[branmuffin]

I think it is obvious that AA felt that he was facing a fight or flight decision for his life. If he was a white jogger being followed and hemmed in by white males in a truck, there wouldn't be the fear AA felt in stopping when they demanded it. We can't put ourselves in a young black man's mind. We haven't experienced his reality of life.

He knew he had stopped and trespassed at the house under construction and that was likely why they were hunting him down right afterward. He didn't steal anything, he didn't have stolen property with him, he was unarmed, but he felt that he had to grab the nozzle of Travis's shotgun because he feared for his life...there is no other reason for him to do this desperate act. Why didn't he just stop when the McMichaels demanded it? Maybe there is some history between them that caused AA to react the way he did. Hopefully we learn all the facts relevant to this case. jmo

Based on the security cam video, I think AA became aware that he was being watched by Overalls across the street which is why he high-tailed it out of there. I also think AA, who other neighbours have attested he ran in the area before, started using the water source at the construction site to hydrate himself during his run. It's probably why, the investigating officers repeatedly tried to have the water turned off citing compromising evidence. MOO.

 

[watergirl62]

Yankees? You don't like t

I agree.

Even R can claim that he was only party to a legal, but hyper vigilant trespasser response and party to a legal, but poorly advised citizens arrest attempt- but not party to armed confrontation.

My guess is that 'Party to' type charges agains others would need proof that say,

- MMs had told them that once the trespassers had been spotted, they would do "what ever it took" to do a citizens arrest. or

- MMs had explicitly announced that they would confront the trespasser with weapons- and needed their help to do so. or

- They knew the MMs were armed and directly encouraged them to chase down and confront the trespasser.

Hmmm, maybe. In the video I clearly hear him chamber a round as he approaches the scene.

I bet he isn't sleeping much these days. That 'press conference in 3,2,1... never mind' stunt was certainly curious.

 

[Cryptic]

Yankees? You don't like t


Hmmm, maybe. In the video I clearly hear him chamber a round as he approaches the scene.

I bet he isn't sleeping much these days. That 'press conference in 3,2,1... never mind' stunt was certainly curious.

If it can be shown that he was armed and especially if it can be shown that he was armed and also made the weapon ready to fire, I can see 'Party to' charges coming.

I don't know if 'Party to' charges can be placed if he continued the chase after seeing GM brandishing a weapon- maybe?

But, at what point did GM start to brandish the weapon? If it was only at the conclusion of the chase, W can say he was unaware of GM's intent to commit a crime until the final moment.

In either case, I agree- W is not getting alot of sleep. Especially after the ubber competent GBI got invovled with a clear promise to bring additional charges against others if legally sustainable.

 

[kaen]

Yankees? You don't like t


Hmmm, maybe. In the video I clearly hear him chamber a round as he approaches the scene.

I bet he isn't sleeping much these days. That 'press conference in 3,2,1... never mind' stunt was certainly curious.

In reality, if he was using his car to chase and/or cut-off Mr. Arbery, he used the car as a weapon. If he had a gun, then, I think we will soon see him arrested as well.

He needs a new lawyer 'cause his old one hasn't really been effective.

 

[Boxer]

Imo, the NYT, et al. USED to have an excellent reputation (well-deserved, or not). But in the past 15 years that I've been paying attention, I slowly limited my reading to the arts and leisure section, then gave it up altogether, including the crossword puzzle, about 10 years ago. As much as I love the puzzle, I couldn't justify giving the NYT another dime. So bringing it back to this thread, I'll believe what they NYT prints when I see independent evidence of it myself. Thanks for the info about Fancy Bluff.

eta: Apropos of this convo, I could have sworn I read that AA grew up in an apartment. Checking...

etaa: yep - so he grew up in an apartment, but lived "most of his life" in Fancy Bluff.

"He was just a real genuine person," said Baker, who grew up in the same apartment complex as Arbery. "He spoke and did everything from a place of love."

Ahmaud Arbery shooting: Mother, friend describe 'humble' 'hype man'

I would like to look that up do you have a link?

How is where the victim grew up relevant? If he was just staying at his mothers and went out running not a difference.

I have a suspicion that the two tween boys seen trespassing might have more to do with thefts.

 

[Matic]

I would like to look that up do you have a link?

How is where the victim grew up relevant? If he was just staying at his mothers and went out running not a difference.

I have a suspicion that the two tween boys seen trespassing might have more to do with thefts.

Why did I get an alert that you quoted me, yet it returns to this post?

 

[Boxer]

Why did I get an alert that you quoted me, yet it returns to this post?

No Idea.
I was quoting you to ask the source of your Arbery apartment info.

 

[Matic]

No Idea.
I was quoting you to ask the source of your Arbery apartment info.

Weird. You didn't quote me, you quoted someone else. And I don't believe I've ever posted anything about his apt or the distance between there and Sattila

 

[branmuffin]

The man in the video is calling 911. We know who this man is. It is not TM.

Based on where and when Perez shows up in the video, I think it's a good guess that he was the first to see AA in the neighborhood. Given the immediacy of everything that followed, I'm also guessing that Perez put out an alert, perhaps on FB.

That would explain the timing of the 911 caller walking to the intersection of Jones & Satilla to check if the trespasser had actually gone on the property. IMO, it would also explain how it was that Roddy was instantly in his truck & ready to join in.

Last, witnesses doesn't necessarily mean eye witnesses. For instance, the home owner with the surveillance camera (219 Satilla) is listed as a witness, perhaps because LE viewed /intended to view his videos.

I think I need to clarify my scenario. I believe the person standing under the trees didn't call 911. I think he called TM. Probably GM since he was already outside near his truck. Then based on the info from the man under the trees, TM called 911 providing information that suggests he was standing right outside 230 Satilla Dr. I think that because TM can't be in two places at once.

I also think that voice recognition technology can verify whether the person on the 911 call made on February 11 will match up with the 911 call made on February 23. It sure sounds like the same person to me.

Bottom line, you can't be two places at once. Explaining that discrepancy will be difficult. You will never get the right answers unless a LE agency asks the right questions. Now the right questions are being asked.

Witnesses are notorious for providing faulty and misleading statements to police. Nine times out of ten it's just the tense situation distorting what they saw or experienced. Reconstructing an incident can be intentional, though, especially if you have a sympathetic ear.

And even if it does come to pass that TM was standing outside 219 Satilla drive (which I highly doubt) it doesn't explain the narrative of GM running inside the house to roust TM if he had just made a 911 call to report a trespasser. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark. MOO

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Hi, all. Is there a page somewhere with all the videos and documents?

 

[sds71]

The sister of the man charged with gunning down Ahmaud Arbery said she posted pictures of the unarmed black jogger’s dead body online because she is “a true-crime fan,” according to a new report.

Lindsay McMichael, 30, admitted posting an unedited image of a blood-soaked Arbery lying on the street in Brunswick, Georgia, on Snapchat, but said she meant no harm, [URL='https://www.the-sun.com/news/837071/sister-ahmaud-arbery-killer-picture-dead-body-snapchat/']the Sun reported Monday.

“I had no nefarious or malicious intent when I posted that picture,” she told the outlet. “The thing is I’m a huge fan of true crime — I listen to four or five podcasts a week — I’m constantly watching that sort of thing.”

“It was more of a, ‘Holy s–t, I can’t believe this has happened,'” she added. “It was absolutely poor judgment.”

However, a lawyer for Arbery’s family called the image “deeply disturbing.”

“The picture Lindsay McMichael posted was very disturbing and very disturbing to the family,” attorney S. Lee Merritt told the Sun. “It actually fits the pattern of the McMichael family engaging in a weird, violent form of voyeurism.”

https://nypost.com/2020/05/18/sister-of-ahmaud-arbery-killer-posted-picture-of-his-body-to-snapchat/?utm_source=NYPTwitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=SocialFlow[/URL]

 

[Reasonable & Just]

The sister of the man charged with gunning down Ahmaud Arbery said she posted pictures of the unarmed black jogger’s dead body online because she is “a true-crime fan,” according to a new report.

Lindsay McMichael, 30, admitted posting an unedited image of a blood-soaked Arbery lying on the street in Brunswick, Georgia, on Snapchat, but said she meant no harm, the Sun reported Monday.

“I had no nefarious or malicious intent when I posted that picture,” she told the outlet. “The thing is I’m a huge fan of true crime — I listen to four or five podcasts a week — I’m constantly watching that sort of thing.”

“It was more of a, ‘Holy s–t, I can’t believe this has happened,'” she added. “It was absolutely poor judgment.”

However, a lawyer for Arbery’s family called the image “deeply disturbing.”

“The picture Lindsay McMichael posted was very disturbing and very disturbing to the family,” attorney S. Lee Merritt told the Sun. “It actually fits the pattern of the McMichael family engaging in a weird, violent form of voyeurism.”

https://nypost.com/2020/05/18/siste...utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=SocialFlow

I don't think you can do things like this unless you have dehumanized the person. This also goes for chasing them down with your vehicle - why would you terrorize someone like that just for being inside a construction site that other people have also gone inside? Both acts are immoral and dehumanizing. And so was any coverup. JMO.

 

[oviedo]

Hi, all. Is there a page somewhere with all the videos and documents?

this is the media thread - no discussion
GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, Brunswick, 23 Feb 2020 *MEDIA, MAPS &TIMELINE *NO DISCUSSION*

 

[Matic]

Hi, all. Is there a page somewhere with all the videos and documents?

Yes. We have a media thread.
Thank you @oviedo


GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, Brunswick, 23 Feb 2020 *MEDIA, MAPS &TIMELINE *NO DISCUSSION*

 

[branmuffin]

How many houses do you reckon AA passed during this 4 minute chase? Are there any reports of him yelling for help or banging on any doors? Cutting thru neighbors yard to an adjacent street? Seems like he just keeps a steady jog going on in the road and back tracks once?

I'm not a jogger but I could almost get half way out of my addition in 4 minutes. Just guestimating but that's atleast 40 houses considering there's houses on both sides of the road. And those houses are practically sitting on top of one another.

For those many people that say you would have done the exact same and run directly at someone holding a shotgun, weave right and juke left to attack that person. Wouldn't you be yelling for help and beating on some doors before actually running into a situation where you knew it was certain death? Logic says no.

I 'm not a runner either. But I do walk. Through neighbourhoods where I don't know a soul. And being an experienced gardener I admit I have walked onto private property to check out interesting plants. Never been shot, though

The houses are on lots anywhere between 60 and 100 feet apart. Definitely not expansive estates but wide enough to support driveways and classic ranch style houses and property on either side. Look at this house at 232 Satillo Dr. (the address of one of the witnesses).
https://www.trulia.com/p/ga/brunswick/232-satilla-dr-brunswick-ga-31523--2031824198 It's on .58 acres.

And this expired listing for 307 Burford Drive. https://www.trulia.com/p/ga/brunswick/307-burford-rd-brunswick-ga-31523--2031824874
It's listed as Roddie's house on the witness list. It's on a half acre lot. The house was sold on February 19, 2020. Was the sale TO Roddie? Or did Roddie sell the house 4 days before AA was murdered? Was it Roddie's fiance's house? I guess he'll explain all that at the trial, the same way GM will explain him listing 200 River Ridge Rd as his residence but insists he lives at 230 Satilla Dr. Anyhoo...

So my explanation for AA's lack of sounding an alarm is because he perceived (rightly) that he was in enemy territory. No point adding more fuel to the fire, so to speak. I'm mean if I were a black man running in a bucolic environment where all of a sudden a group of white men with guns starting chasing me down the street the last thing I would think about doing is possibly increasing the numbers.

We're all trying to get into AA's head. We have to though, because there are too many other heads plotting the trajectory of the trial. It's easy when the only witness who could refute your testimony is dead.

Once I was held up by a man with a gun. Taking a stroll in downtown Toronto on a lovely summer night late in the evening. My friend and I heard footsteps behind us moving fairly fast so we unconsciously moved closer together to let them pass. Except he didn't. He matched his footsteps to ours and then poked a gun in my ribs. I looked down and saw that gun and just didn't believe what was happening. Neither of us had any money with us, we didn't even have any identification. He asked for money and my friend in her agitated state turned her pockets inside out to illustrate the fact. And to this day, I don't know why we did it, but he asked us where we lived...and we TOLD him! Sure, we were 20 at the time and naive, I guess. There's no explanation for what we did but there is absolutely no excuse for an individual walking up to someone walking down a street and pointing a gun at them.

 

[Gardenista]

The sister of the man charged with gunning down Ahmaud Arbery said she posted pictures of the unarmed black jogger’s dead body online because she is “a true-crime fan,” according to a new report.

Lindsay McMichael, 30, admitted posting an unedited image of a blood-soaked Arbery lying on the street in Brunswick, Georgia, on Snapchat, but said she meant no harm, the Sun reported Monday.

“I had no nefarious or malicious intent when I posted that picture,” she told the outlet. “The thing is I’m a huge fan of true crime — I listen to four or five podcasts a week — I’m constantly watching that sort of thing.”

“It was more of a, ‘Holy s–t, I can’t believe this has happened,'” she added. “It was absolutely poor judgment.”

However, a lawyer for Arbery’s family called the image “deeply disturbing.”

“The picture Lindsay McMichael posted was very disturbing and very disturbing to the family,” attorney S. Lee Merritt told the Sun. “It actually fits the pattern of the McMichael family engaging in a weird, violent form of voyeurism.”

https://nypost.com/2020/05/18/siste...utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=SocialFlow

Good for her for owning her mistake.