GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, jogger, fatally shot by former PD and son, Brunswick, Feb 2020 #2

[skyedaze]

I'm saying that proving the underlying felony of false imprisonment to get a felony murder conviction against Bryan is going to be very difficult, since based on the facts as we know them the required elements for false imprisonment haven't been met. And yes, the fact that Arbery could keep running off several times before the final fatal encounter will probably be an important element in that, if the case against Ryan ever makes it to trial, in particular regarding the following defenses:

False Imprisonment | Georgia Criminal Lawyer

There was a reasonable way out: If the victim knows of a reasonable means of escape, then there was no confinement. An example of this is if the victim was locked in a room on the first floor of a building and there was an open window.

The victim was not confined: Not letting someone go where they want to go is not enough to prove false imprisonment. There must be some sort of confinement. For instance, if a road was closed due to a parade and the victim wanted to go down the road but the police made her go another way, there was no false imprisonment.

The road was "closed" and he was prevented from moving in his desired direction by armed men who were not police officers. He was indeed confined...by being blocked in by armed men who were not law enforcement.

AA was in a residential neighborhood with fences around the properties.
He was not told, "Hey you gotta go around..feel free to go another direction." It was to stop him and prevent him form moving in any desired direction by force of 3 armed men in 2 vehicles.
GBI does not level charges out of thin air.

 

[California Sunset]

The shoplifting ARREST video is actually very interesting.

Interesting in that LE identifies AA to the fellow in the blue t-shirt, not the other way around. Who is that fellow? Since the accusation was about a WalMart TV, perhaps he's an uncover WalMart store cop?

But. After being told the boys' ages, he accused them all of trespassing, NOT shoplifting, then tells LE he wants to press charges against AA. For trespassing. That's kinda curious, eh? And the trespassing he accused them of is riding bikes on "his patio." Huh?

Curious upon curious. All 4 of the boys/young men are on foot, and appear to be on the outer edge of the parking lot. They are not carrying a 65" TV. Where is the TV? It's not in their possession. Was a 65" TV actually even removed from the store?

LE accuses AA of stealing the TV. Actually, what he seems to be saying is that AA had the TV on a cart and rolled it right out of the store. So where is the TV?

At other points LE seemed to be saying AA just tried to roll the TV out. As an aside, AA would have had to taken the TV all the way outside to have committed the offense of shoplifting. Where is the TV? LE was clearly called to the scene after the fact. They call out to the boys AFTER they are far away from the store proper. With no TV in their possession.

And the only other person on the scene is presumably WalMart security. Who, again, does NOT tell LE he wants to press charges for shoplifting.

So, why is it that a few minutes into LE's encounter with LE that he is arrested? For shoplifting?

If you read MSM stories about this incident closely, the fact is they all report that AA was CHARGED with shoplifting. They do not report that AA was CONVICTED.

If AA had actually been convicted, the odds are his probation would have been REVOKED, meaning he would have served the remainder of the gun charge conviction in jail. That didn't happen.

Instead, AA was dinged with a parole VIOLATION as a result of his excursion to/encounter at WalMart.

As explained in the link below, there are 2 kinds of parole violation. The bad-bad kind includes committing another crime while on probation.

But there are also "technical" violations of probation, the list of which is long, kinda open ended and very much open to interpretation by LE.

GM's investigation of AA's alleged shoplifting does not appear to have resulted in a conviction, and the violation of probation which didn't result in revocation most likely was a technical violation.

And perhaps one of no greater magnitude or merit than rapping in his car in a park where others were alleged to use drugs.

UNDERSTANDING PROBATION VIOLATIONS AND REVOCATIONS IN GEORGIA COURTS

I did loss prevention as part of my employment as a special investigator by an investigations agency. We worked 'within state guidelines'. Walmart and some other companies do not follow those guidelines. Their policy is deficient in general.

 

[branmuffin]

Prosecutor is playing a dangerous game here.

False Imprisonment | Georgia Criminal Lawyer

Closer Look at the Law Behind False Imprisonment in Georgia After Family Violence Incident in Hall County | Georgia Criminal Lawyer

False imprisonment in Georgia is only applicable if it can be proven that the victim had no other reasonable means of escape.

The video shows Arbery running towards the redneck’s truck, and not in any number of directions away from the road and where no vehicle could even go because of the trees and brush. He was not even close to legally confined under any definition or case law in the state.

All in all, looking at past case law it seems like a difficult case to make. An acquittal is exactly the kind of event that could make the prosecution‘s case against the other defendants significantly more difficult and would become a key part of the defense’s case. This is assuming his case goes before their trials, and it seems highly likely it would.

I think that's because there were more than two vehicles chasing him, IMO, and he did not have any idea where a safe place to run was.

 

[skyedaze]

I think that's because there were more than two vehicles chasing him, IMO, and he did not have any idea where a safe place to run was.

Yes, and with use of loaded guns and rifle, not to mention chasing him down in trucks, his options were removed until he was confined to a small section of the road and no where else to go.

 

[tlcya]

Yes, and with use of loaded guns and rifle, not to mention chasing him down in trucks, his options were removed until he was confined to a small section of the road and no where else to go.

And no idea how many more aggressors might be chasing him or if they too were armed or where they were.

 

[branmuffin]

Btw the guy who did that video did an updated video and explained he'd been mistaken and it was Travis raising his arms.

I haven't found an updated video with amended voice over, only the original one where in the preamble he states this: **FACT CORRECTION** at 9:30 We are not seeing Ahmaud's arms go up in a defensive manner. That is Travis raising his shot gun. This action explains Ahmaud's reaction of turning to the right.

 

[branmuffin]

For me, he may well deserve to be arrested. Likewise, I don't buy his sudden re-cast from participant to "horrified bystander" at all.

I am, however, interested in what evidence is supporting the felony murder charge. The GBI will hold a press conference tomorrow and additional details might be revealed.

If I were a juror, i would be looking for direct evidence that R knew that the trespasser would be confronted with weapons or a "what ever it took" line of thought. In reverse, I would be looking for direct evidence that R say, encouraged the use of weapons in the confrontation.

In the end, I am not a big fan of murder charges against a non gunman. Negligent homicide- yes.

I presume the charge of felony murder is based on the expectation the accused will plead to a lesser charge.

 

[Longtime_lurker2019]

But blocking someone from behind, even in a truck, is unlikely to clear the threshold for a conviction of false imprisonment. As the example of the webpage I linked mentioned, someone locked in a room on the first floor in a building can just climb out of the window: no false imprisonment. If being locked in a room on the first floor doesn't clear the bar for false imprisonment, than blocking someone from behind in a car is even less likely to meet it. And the video shows the event taking place on a road with massive amounts of open space for someone to run to off the road, and even through trees and brush where an individual can easily move to but vehicles most likely could not.

I will respectfully disagree that it will be a hard sell. I will choose to have faith that GBI and the DA know the appropriate statutes and how they apply. Do you think they intentionally overcharged?

 

[skyedaze]

For me, he may well deserve to be arrested. Likewise, I don't buy his sudden re-cast from participant to "horrified bystander" at all.

I am, however, interested in what evidence is supporting the felony murder charge. The GBI will hold a press conference tomorrow and additional details might be revealed.

If I were a juror, i would be looking for direct evidence that R knew that the trespasser would be confronted with weapons or a "what ever it took" line of thought. In reverse, I would be looking for direct evidence that R say, encouraged the use of weapons in the confrontation.

In the end, I am not a big fan of murder charges against a non gunman. Negligent homicide- yes.

Don't need direct evidence. If WB is a participant and AA winds up dead he gets charged just like the other two...flat out.
Will that charge be negotiated for testimony, etc....maybe so.

 

[MikeF]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

I posted that a few days ago because the first time watching with sound up on desktop the click caught my attention, but then within a few seconds you can hear the sound of a seatbelt retracting, so I dismissed it. Then in the course of watching other stuff related I saw whatever video it was suggesting it was a weapon. I'm still at it being the seatbelt, which is not to say Roddie wasn't armed. That's just not the sound heard. IMO

 

[Matic]

I posted that a few days ago because the first time watching with sound up on desktop the click caught my attention, but then within a few seconds you can hear the sound of a seatbelt retracting, so I dismissed it. Then in the course of watching other stuff related I saw whatever video it was suggesting it was a weapon. I'm still at it being the seatbelt, which is not to say Roddie wasn't armed. That's just not the sound heard. IMO

Thank you. I knew I saw someone else post it but couldn't find it.

I'm absolutely not saying it wasn't a gun either. Could very well be. But it sounds like he's clicking in and clicking out of a seatbelt.

At this point and with no knowlege of any reports that he did have a weapon, I'd say it's a good chance it could be either.

 

[Boxer]

Just one person attempting to detain you illegally is a crime.

 

[MikeF]

The road was "closed" and he was prevented from moving in his desired direction by armed men who were not police officers. He was indeed confined...by being blocked in by armed men who were not law enforcement.

AA was in a residential neighborhood with fences around the properties.
He was not told, "Hey you gotta go around..feel free to go another direction." It was to stop him and prevent him form moving in any desired direction by force of 3 armed men in 2 vehicles.
GBI does not level charges out of thin air.

If you look at the various pics taken of his memorial as well as the pathetic photo taken by the sister, you can really get a feel that the houses were all right there. I would imagine AA had it in his mind that trying to cross through those yards would have given the McMichael pair even more reason to suspect he up to no good. As well as they may have claimed they feared for the safety of whichever home he decided to try and run toward. Arbery may have felt it better to stay out in the open and just keep jogging to the exit intersection of Satilla Shores. Unfortunately that never happened.

 

[watergirl62]

I posted that a few days ago because the first time watching with sound up on desktop the click caught my attention, but then within a few seconds you can hear the sound of a seatbelt retracting, so I dismissed it. Then in the course of watching other stuff related I saw whatever video it was suggesting it was a weapon. I'm still at it being the seatbelt, which is not to say Roddie wasn't armed. That's just not the sound heard. IMO

That was me. Eta I am not convinced either way. I will sit here on the fence and wait for more information.

 

[Boxer]

I posted that a few days ago because the first time watching with sound up on desktop the click caught my attention, but then within a few seconds you can hear the sound of a seatbelt retracting, so I dismissed it. Then in the course of watching other stuff related I saw whatever video it was suggesting it was a weapon. I'm still at it being the seatbelt, which is not to say Roddie wasn't armed. That's just not the sound heard. IMO

Ok.
He could be unbuckling.
Why? Is getting ready to get out of the car?

 

[tlcya]

Watching video of Atty Merritt discussing the arrest on ABC news. (his interview begins at 1.58 mark)

 

[MikeF]

In this video the click is heard at 13 sec, the "retract" sound is at 16 seconds and it's as Roddie looks to slow down angling his vehicle slightly facing to the left and stops, so yes he may have been about to hop out and help those two restrain Arbery but when that shot went off at practicaly the same instant he though oh hell no stay here. I still find it interesting he makes absolutely no sounds like a H*** C*** or anything when he just watched a man shot. In shock? Maybe. I'd love to read his statement given to police that day.

(btw, after hearing that seatbelt sound I went to a site that offers sound effects and did seat belt release/retract and that led me come to my conclusion)

ETA sorry this was in reply to Boxer but somehow it left out that quote.

 

[kaen]

I see that the anonymous "I am so sorry" card is attached at the bottom as a "related file"... Interesting...Would love to know what they found in the home.

ETA - Link

I wonder who wrote that note. I don't think we are done with culpable people. Officer Rash had shared with Mr. English that the accused father of the accused son would be able to help going forward. Many neighborhoods have FB group or NextD--r groups. Was this a post that had people sharing/planning/plotting? Who else knew? How long was this planned for? I think we are at the tip of the iceberg. And, it could get ugly. JMHO.

Now, we know why the third conspirator/accused murderer didn't say a peep and cancelled his press conference. Couldn't make a public statement because if he lied he would be in more trouble.

 

[Vern]

He's dead because he grabbed the gun.

He's dead because someone's finger pulled the trigger 3 times. Full stop.

As a member of the Army (32 years and counting), and as a registered gun owner, I'll tell you right now that one's finger NEVER touches that trigger unless you intend to pull it.
Basic gun safety that rule is.

These two were huge fails in that respect. Huge.

 

[MikeF]

I wonder who wrote that note. I don't think we are done with culpable people. Officer Rash had shared with Mr. English that the accused father of the accused son would be able to help going forward. Many neighborhoods have FB group or NextD--r groups. Was this a post that had people sharing/planning/plotting? Who else knew? How long was this planned for? I think we are at the tip of the iceberg. And, it could get ugly. JMHO.

Now, we know why the third conspirator/accused murderer didn't say a peep and cancelled his press conference. Couldn't make a public statement because if he lied he would be in more trouble.

I'm trying to wrap my mind around the fact that IF Roddie was just some concerned neighbor, where is his 911 call once the video ends? I mean I can let it go if within mere milliseconds LE arrived, but when they arrived was Roddie in his vehicle or out? Was he over with the McMichael's watching Arbery live his last moments?