GA - Former President Donald Trump indicted, 10 counts in 2020 election interference, violation of RICO Act, 14 Aug 2023

[Stunned]

Thanks, neighbor!

I read every syllable of all 98 pages last night, but I appreciate that you’re formatting it so it’s easier for everyone to get to read. IMO the more people who read this, the more realization will sink in that this is a very treacherous conspiracy against the signal idea that made us a free country…the people decide. “Of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the Earth,” said Lincoln, and who could imagine a successor in the White House attempting a coup?

I remember thinking when I saw with my own eyes what he and his people were doing Jan 6, “Who does he think he is? How dare he do this?”. Weird, every time he opens his mouth I think the same thing these days. IMO

 

[MyBelle]

RSBM

I know the internet jumped on this but I honestly don't see the significance.

Doesn't everyone recognize that an indictment such as this would have been written up in draft form (probably dozens of draft versions) prior to the grand jury vote?

Obviously (IMO) the draft would have been edited prior to publication if the GJ had declined to indict on some of the counts, but surely no one thinks the DA's office waits until after the vote and then sits down with a blank piece of paper (er, digital document) to write it all out?

As was promptly pointed out at least on twitter where I was reading at the time, actual final/completed court documents have case numbers and other identifying features the prematurely published document didn't have. So, apparently (and IMO) some clerk hit publish on a draft when they shouldn't have.

IMO essentially the equivalent to an accidental "reply to all" in a group email, except that instead of their whole office email list, the whole d*mn WORLD was watching to see the goof.

I truly don't grasp what evil intent folks are assigning to this. A poorly trained clerk? Not enough triple-check office procedures to prevent a gaffe? Perhaps. But what beyond that?

Serious question.

The significance is that it was posted on the docket BEFORE the Grand Jury voted and then taken down. It did have a docket number as well as the Judge's name. When confronted about it, the response was that it was fictitious. However, the reporter had taken a photo of it to prove it was real. When asked about it at the press conference, Willis pretended to know nothing about it.

I think Trump's attorneys will use it to attack the credibility and political motivations of the prosecutor.

JMO

 

[Stunned]

The significance is that it was posted on the docket BEFORE the Grand Jury voted and then taken down. It did have a docket number as well as the Judge's name. When confronted about it, the response was that it was fictitious. However, the reporter had taken a photo of it to prove it was real. When asked about it at the press conference, Willis pretended to know nothing about it.

I think Trump's attorneys will use it to attack the credibility and political motivations of the prosecutor.

JMO

I hope it wasn’t done intentionally for just that reason!

 

[Leilei]

The significance is that it was posted on the docket BEFORE the Grand Jury voted and then taken down. It did have a docket number as well as the Judge's name. When confronted about it, the response was that it was fictitious. However, the reporter had taken a photo of it to prove it was real. When asked about it at the press conference, Willis pretended to know nothing about it.

I think Trump's attorneys will use it to attack the credibility and political motivations of the prosecutor.

JMO

Again, that was not the judge's name. It is A judge's name, but she is neither the judge over the GJ or the judge who was assigned the case last night. I explained yesterday how a charging document should appear and said that this was more than likely a memo or court note, nor did it have the signatures or filing stamps required. It's a nothingburger, and has and will be shown as such.
IMO

 

[Auntie Cipation]

The significance is that it was posted on the docket BEFORE the Grand Jury voted and then taken down. It did have a docket number as well as the Judge's name. When confronted about it, the response was that it was fictitious. However, the reporter had taken a photo of it to prove it was real. When asked about it at the press conference, Willis pretended to know nothing about it.

I think Trump's attorneys will use it to attack the credibility and political motivations of the prosecutor.

JMO

Thanks for the response. I agree "fictitious" was a bizarre word to use -- I interpret it to mean "not a valid/official court document in that form" but clearly that wasn't the best word to use.

I heard the press conference and FW's comment, and I think it's entirely possible she honestly wasn't aware of the specifics, especially if (as I suspect) it was a court employee who mistakenly published a draft, not an employee of the DA's office. That's just MOO though. She also could easily have meant "I can't speak to that" just like a police chief says in a press conference, and we all know it means "I'm not going to release that information" more than "I am unaware of the details".

Yes it was published prior to the vote, AND was (IMO) a draft, AND was (IMO) incomplete even though I can't recall which specific numbers or labels it was missing -- this is what I read on twitter near real time and I didn't take notes. But it's my impression that if the draft/incomplete document had been mistakenly published even after the GJ vote, it still of course would have been taken down and only the correct final document would be allowed to remain published. I truly think this was an error of technology -- human error but made possible by the live website publishing options in use today.

Trump's lawyers can try to use it as part of their attempt to discredit FW but I doubt it will make any dent, just more annoying blather he tries to pass off as rational. IMO.

 

[MyBelle]

Thanks for the response. I agree "fictitious" was a bizarre word to use -- I interpret it to mean "not a valid/official court document in that form" but clearly that wasn't the best word to use.

I heard the press conference and FW's comment, and I think it's entirely possible she honestly wasn't aware of the specifics, especially if (as I suspect) it was a court employee who mistakenly published a draft, not an employee of the DA's office. That's just MOO though. She also could easily have meant "I can't speak to that" just like a police chief says in a press conference, and we all know it means "I'm not going to release that information" more than "I am unaware of the details".

Yes it was published prior to the vote, AND was (IMO) a draft, AND was (IMO) incomplete even though I can't recall which specific numbers or labels it was missing -- this is what I read on twitter near real time and I didn't take notes. But it's my impression that if the draft/incomplete document had been mistakenly published even after the GJ vote, it still of course would have been taken down and only the correct final document would be allowed to remain published. I truly think this was an error of technology -- human error but made possible by the live website publishing options in use today.

Trump's lawyers can try to use it as part of their attempt to discredit FW but I doubt it will make any dent, just more annoying blather he tries to pass off as rational. IMO.

I think Trump's lawyers will use it to their best advantage.

JMO

 

[JerseyGirl]

The significance is that it was posted on the docket BEFORE the Grand Jury voted and then taken down. It did have a docket number as well as the Judge's name. When confronted about it, the response was that it was fictitious. However, the reporter had taken a photo of it to prove it was real. When asked about it at the press conference, Willis pretended to know nothing about it.

I think Trump's attorneys will use it to attack the credibility and political motivations of the prosecutor.

JMO

The clerk of the Fulton County, Georgia, court system acknowledged Tuesday accidently releasing what appeared to be a list of criminal charges against Donald Trump before he was actually indicted, and sought to deflect blame amid mounting criticism from Republicans who have seized on the blunder to characterize the case as rigged.

.. clerk Che Alexander’s office said she was doing a “trial run” of the court’s filing system on Monday “in anticipation of issues that arise with entering a potentially large indictment.”

Alexander’s office said that led to the docketing of “what appeared to be an indictment, but which was, in fact, only a fictitious docket sheet.” Reuters found the docket and reported on it Monday afternoon, hours before the grand jury returned the indictment charging Trump and 18 allies over efforts to subvert the 2020 election results.

The docket sheet published by Reuters included a list of 13 counts against Trump, including Georgia’s Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations, or RICO, solicitation of violation of oath by public officer and false statements and writings. They were the exact same counts the former president was charged with in the indictment handed down late Monday. The erroneous document also included a case number, though it differed from the one on the actual indictment.

Georgia clerk says 'mishap' caused erroneous release of list of Trump charges

The clerk of the Fulton County, Georgia, court system has acknowledged accidentally releasing what appeared to be a list of criminal charges against Donald Trump before he was actually indicted.

apnews.com

 

[Inthedetails]

I'm concentrating on the indictment that is not factitious.

Count 1: Violation of Georgia RICO Act
All 19 defendants formed an "enterprise" and are charged with this count.

There are 161 acts listed under this count! This is a batch.

17. Nov 30, 2020: Rudy and Jenna Ellis met with Arizona legislators in Phoenix. Unindicted co-conspirators #5 and #6 present. Rudy, and Trump via phone, made false statements about election fraud in AZ. Rudy and Jenna Ellis solicited AZ legislators to unlawfully appoint electors.

18. Nov 30, 2020: Michael Roman (Trump campaign official) instructed unindicted co-conspirator #7 to coordinate with people from the campaign to contact state legislators in Georgia and elsewhere to encourage them to unlawfully appoint electors.

19. Dec 1-30, 2020: Trump and Mark Meadows requested John McEntee (political aid, former body man and assistant to Trump, couldn't pass security clearance) to prepare memo outlining strategy to disrupt and delay Congress on Jan 6, 2021. The plan included Pence to count half the electoral votes and return the rest to the states.

20. Dec 1, 2020: Rudy and Jenna Ellis met with Speaker of Arizona House of Representatives, Rusty Bowers; President of AZ Senate Karen Kann; and other AZ legislators in Phoenix. Unindicted co-conspirator #5 present. Rudy made false statements about election fraud in AZ and solicited legislators to call special session.

21. Dec 2, 2020: Rudy and Jenna Ellis met with Michigan House of Representatives Oversight Committee. Rudy made false statements about election fraud in Michigan and solicited legislators to unlawfully appoint electors.

Source: GA indictment page 23-24

23SC188947 - CRIMINAL INDICTMENT

www.documentcloud.org

23SC188947 - CRIMINAL INDICTMENT

www.documentcloud.org

 

[MyBelle]

Again, that was not the judge's name. It is A judge's name, but she is neither the judge over the GJ or the judge who was assigned the case last night. I explained yesterday how a charging document should appear and said that this was more than likely a memo or court note, nor did it have the signatures or filing stamps required. It's a nothingburger, and has and will be shown as such.
IMO

Of course the Judge's name and docket number had to be changed!

I doubt the new Judge, a former Assistant U.S. Attorney, will agree it is a "nothingburger." A grand jury indictment is only supposed to be in the hands of the grand jury before they vote.

JMO

 

[vls12345]

Outrage over a brief, "trial" posting of upcoming indictment docs (with little info other than charges and no markers of what makes a court filing official, plus media and pundits had been predicting the upcoming charges for days) vs. no outrage over multiple slates of fake electors signing, swearing to, and submitting false election information to Congress.

Hmmm.



ETA: Kind of like the difference between officials having classified documents in their personal possession. Most, when notified, worked to return them to the government as requested. One person did not and, in fact, lied, hid the documents, etc. Again, totally different things.

 

[JerseyGirl]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/08/15/trumps-tweets-used-against-him-georgia-indictment/

“Wow! Blockbuster testimony taking place right now in Georgia. Ballot stuffing by Dems when Republicans were forced to leave the large counting room. Plenty more coming, but this alone leads to an easy win of the State!” read one tweet that Trump “caused to be tweeted” from @RealDonaldTrump that day, according to the indictment. The allegations of ballot stuffing were unfounded.

A subsequent tweet from Trump’s account later that day stated baselessly that, “People in Georgia got caught cold bringing in massive numbers of ballots and putting them in ‘voting’ machines.” The tweet was appended with, “Great job @BrianKempGA!” — a dig at the Republican governor of Georgia who pushed back against Trump’s claims of election fraud in the state.

“What a fool Governor @BrianKempGA of Georgia is,” read another cited tweet from Dec. 14, 2020. “Could have been so easy, but now we have to do it the hard way. Demand this clown call a Special Session and open up signature verification, NOW. Otherwise, could be a bad day for two GREAT Senators on January 5th.”
The mention of two senators was in reference to the high-stakes runoff race taking place in Georgia at the time for both of the state’s U.S. Senate seats. Democrats won both seats in the runoff, which was held on Jan. 5, 2021, increasing the party’s slim majority in the Senate.

The indictment also cites tweets in which Trump attacked Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, former Georgia lieutenant governor Geoff Duncan and former vice president Mike Pence when they were not going along with his claims.

“I spoke to Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger yesterday about Fulton County and voter fraud in Georgia. He was unwilling, or unable, to answer questions such as the ‘ballots under table’ scam, ballot destruction, out of state ‘voters’, dead voters, and more. He has no clue!” Trump’s Twitter account stated in a post on Jan. 3, 2021.

In tweets on Jan. 5 and the morning of the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol, Trump continued to falsely push the idea that the vice president had the power to reject electors.

“States want to correct their votes, which they now know were based on irregularities and fraud, plus corrupt process never received legislative approval,” read one tweet from @RealDonaldTrump posted on Jan. 6, 2021. “All Mike Pence has to do is send them back to the States, AND WE WIN. Do it Mike, this is time for extreme courage!”

Some of the tweets were less aggressive. The indictment pointed to a Dec. 3, 2020, tweet in which Trump wrote “Georgia hearings now on @OANN. Amazing!” which was described as “an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy.”

In all, Trump’s tweets comprise 12 of the 161 acts of racketeering activity included in the indictment. Those tweets, as well as some of the phone calls cited, are likely included in the indictment to show a pattern, according to Caren Morrison, a former federal prosecutor now at Georgia State University.

 

[Inthedetails]

Outrage over a brief, "trial" posting of upcoming indictment docs (with little info other than charges and no markers of what makes a court filing official, plus media and pundits had been predicting the upcoming charges for days) vs. no outrage over multiple slates of fake electors signing and submitting false election information to Congress.

Hmmm.



ETA: Kind of like the difference between officials having classified documents in their personal possession. Most, when notified, worked to return them to the government as requested. One person did not and, in fact, lied, hid the documents, etc. Again, totally different things.

That's exactly how we got here. People run to believe made-up conspiracies and create chaos rather than bother with the actual charges against the ex-president.

Multiple felonies vs. 1 clerical error.
And the winner of the crowd's attention is.....Clerical Error!

Expected, but continually disappointing. Moving on.

jmo

 

[vls12345]

That's exactly how we got here. People run to believe made-up conspiracies and create chaos rather than bother with the actual charges against the ex-president.

Multiple felonies vs. 1 clerical error.
And the winner of the crowd's attention is.....Clerical Error!

Expected, but continually disappointing. Moving on.

jmo

Trump is a lot like his mentor, my cousin Roy Cohn. Now he's leaving like him, in disgrace.

Cohn was disbarred, shamed and defeated by a disease he denied. He was Trump's mentor, but the departing president failed to learn some key lessons.

www.usatoday.com

My cousin Roy Cohn taught Donald Trump the art of denying, deflecting and distracting.

 

[Reasonable & Just]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/08/15/trumps-tweets-used-against-him-georgia-indictment/

“Wow! Blockbuster testimony taking place right now in Georgia. Ballot stuffing by Dems when Republicans were forced to leave the large counting room. Plenty more coming, but this alone leads to an easy win of the State!” read one tweet that Trump “caused to be tweeted” from @RealDonaldTrump that day, according to the indictment. The allegations of ballot stuffing were unfounded.

A subsequent tweet from Trump’s account later that day stated baselessly that, “People in Georgia got caught cold bringing in massive numbers of ballots and putting them in ‘voting’ machines.” The tweet was appended with, “Great job @BrianKempGA!” — a dig at the Republican governor of Georgia who pushed back against Trump’s claims of election fraud in the state.

“What a fool Governor @BrianKempGA of Georgia is,” read another cited tweet from Dec. 14, 2020. “Could have been so easy, but now we have to do it the hard way. Demand this clown call a Special Session and open up signature verification, NOW. Otherwise, could be a bad day for two GREAT Senators on January 5th.”
The mention of two senators was in reference to the high-stakes runoff race taking place in Georgia at the time for both of the state’s U.S. Senate seats. Democrats won both seats in the runoff, which was held on Jan. 5, 2021, increasing the party’s slim majority in the Senate.

The indictment also cites tweets in which Trump attacked Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, former Georgia lieutenant governor Geoff Duncan and former vice president Mike Pence when they were not going along with his claims.

“I spoke to Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger yesterday about Fulton County and voter fraud in Georgia. He was unwilling, or unable, to answer questions such as the ‘ballots under table’ scam, ballot destruction, out of state ‘voters’, dead voters, and more. He has no clue!” Trump’s Twitter account stated in a post on Jan. 3, 2021.

In tweets on Jan. 5 and the morning of the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol, Trump continued to falsely push the idea that the vice president had the power to reject electors.

“States want to correct their votes, which they now know were based on irregularities and fraud, plus corrupt process never received legislative approval,” read one tweet from @RealDonaldTrump posted on Jan. 6, 2021. “All Mike Pence has to do is send them back to the States, AND WE WIN. Do it Mike, this is time for extreme courage!”

Some of the tweets were less aggressive. The indictment pointed to a Dec. 3, 2020, tweet in which Trump wrote “Georgia hearings now on @OANN. Amazing!” which was described as “an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy.”

In all, Trump’s tweets comprise 12 of the 161 acts of racketeering activity included in the indictment. Those tweets, as well as some of the phone calls cited, are likely included in the indictment to show a pattern, according to Caren Morrison, a former federal prosecutor now at Georgia State University.

“Could have been so easy, but now we have to do it the hard way”. Who’s he calling a clown? All these threats from an unhinged bully.

There’s an expectation of Muslim Americans to not go around defending the actions and words of Al-Qaeda, otherwise we figure they are not good people and are unpatriotic. Seems just as reasonable for this guy’s followers, given his frequently stated contempt for this country and his multi-pronged attempts to overthrow our representative democracy. He has lawyers who get paid to defend him. You can say anything you want in this country, but don’t be surprised when others judge you unfavorably for taking the side of a crook and a traitor. JMO.

 

[Leilei]

Defendants will be booked at the Rice Street Jail.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1691598505276494114

 

[MyBelle]

The clerk of the Fulton County, Georgia, court system acknowledged Tuesday accidently releasing what appeared to be a list of criminal charges against Donald Trump before he was actually indicted, and sought to deflect blame amid mounting criticism from Republicans who have seized on the blunder to characterize the case as rigged.

.. clerk Che Alexander’s office said she was doing a “trial run” of the court’s filing system on Monday “in anticipation of issues that arise with entering a potentially large indictment.”

Alexander’s office said that led to the docketing of “what appeared to be an indictment, but which was, in fact, only a fictitious docket sheet.” Reuters found the docket and reported on it Monday afternoon, hours before the grand jury returned the indictment charging Trump and 18 allies over efforts to subvert the 2020 election results.

The docket sheet published by Reuters included a list of 13 counts against Trump, including Georgia’s Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations, or RICO, solicitation of violation of oath by public officer and false statements and writings. They were the exact same counts the former president was charged with in the indictment handed down late Monday. The erroneous document also included a case number, though it differed from the one on the actual indictment.

Georgia clerk says 'mishap' caused erroneous release of list of Trump charges

The clerk of the Fulton County, Georgia, court system has acknowledged accidentally releasing what appeared to be a list of criminal charges against Donald Trump before he was actually indicted.

apnews.com

BBM. Of course the Republicans are going to seize upon it!

I'm an independent and to me, it smacks of dirty politics, or even worse: corruption, for which Atlanta has long had a reputation.

Businessman Jeff Jafari pleads guilty to bribing City of Atlanta and DeKalb County officials to obtain contracts

Lohrasb “Jeff” Jafari, the former Executive Vice President of PRAD Group, Inc., pleaded guilty to paying bribe money to two City of Atlanta officials in exchange for steering city business worth millions of dollars to his company, to paying bribes to a former Dekalb County official in an attempt...

www.justice.gov

 

[vls12345]

Fulton County Clerk now receiving threats.

‘I am human:’ Fulton clerk explains mishap over charges accidentally posted before Trump indictment

Ché Alexander says her office has received threats after the documents were accidentally posted.

www.wsbtv.com

Because of unhinged people.

Imo.

 

[Lilibet]

That's exactly how we got here. People run to believe made-up conspiracies and create chaos rather than bother with the actual charges against the ex-president.

Multiple felonies vs. 1 clerical error.
And the winner of the crowd's attention is.....Clerical Error!

Expected, but continually disappointing. Moving on.

jmo

Smells like DARVO to me—

DARVO - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

DARVO (an acronym for "deny, attack, and reverse victim and offender") is a reaction that perpetrators of wrongdoing, such as sexual offenders may display in response to being held accountable for their behavior.[1] Some researchers indicate that it is a common manipulation strategy of psychological abusers.[2][3][4]

As the acronym suggests, the common steps involved are:

1. The abuser denies the abuse ever took place
2. When confronted with evidence, the abuser then attacks the person that was abused (and/or the person's family and/or friends) for attempting to hold the abuser accountable for their actions, and finally
3. The abuser claims that they are actually the victim in the situation, thus reversing the positions of victim and offender.[2][4]It often involves not just playing the victim but also victim blaming.[3]

JMO

 

[Inthedetails]

Smells like DARVO to me—

DARVO - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

DARVO (an acronym for "deny, attack, and reverse victim and offender") is a reaction that perpetrators of wrongdoing, such as sexual offenders may display in response to being held accountable for their behavior.[1] Some researchers indicate that it is a common manipulation strategy of psychological abusers.[2][3][4]

As the acronym suggests, the common steps involved are:

1. The abuser denies the abuse ever took place
2. When confronted with evidence, the abuser then attacks the person that was abused (and/or the person's family and/or friends) for attempting to hold the abuser accountable for their actions, and finally
3. The abuser claims that they are actually the victim in the situation, thus reversing the positions of victim and offender.[2][4]It often involves not just playing the victim but also victim blaming.[3]

JMO

You always know the best terms! Love it.

jmo

 

[Friday Fan]

Smells like DARVO to me—

DARVO - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

DARVO (an acronym for "deny, attack, and reverse victim and offender") is a reaction that perpetrators of wrongdoing, such as sexual offenders may display in response to being held accountable for their behavior.[1] Some researchers indicate that it is a common manipulation strategy of psychological abusers.[2][3][4]

As the acronym suggests, the common steps involved are:

1. The abuser denies the abuse ever took place
2. When confronted with evidence, the abuser then attacks the person that was abused (and/or the person's family and/or friends) for attempting to hold the abuser accountable for their actions, and finally
3. The abuser claims that they are actually the victim in the situation, thus reversing the positions of victim and offender.[2][4]It often involves not just playing the victim but also victim blaming.[3]

JMO

I didn't know there was a name for this.

Have seen too much of this in the last 40 years or so. Someone has been teaching people this.