GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 1

[Hickory Born]

In my humble opinion, i dont think it will help to search the woods or shoreline... If they killed Mrs. Dermond then I fear that she - and the other "evidence"- are both at the bottom of the lake near the dam where it's about 100 feet deep...

Thanks for this opinion. Do you know if sonar can detect something at 100 ft? Maybe LE has already checked at the dam.

 

[KaylynnCouture]

Does that mean he was alive when they beheaded him? Oh my, so sad.

I don't think so. I think the medical examiner said that they don't believe he was alive during the decapitation, otherwise there would have been "a lot more blood". It sounds like he was killed with a blow to the head, and then decapitated.

ETA: Here's the exact quote from the news article I was referring to: "The blood splatter at the murder scene confirms that Dermond was beheaded after his death. McElhenney says there would have been more blood if the beheading had happened while Dermond was still alive."

From http://www.13wmaz.com/story/news/local/hancock/2014/05/09/putnam-murder-autopsy-report/8893493/

 

[Grasshopper]

I saw that too, but didn't look at dates, just assumed it was someone else

My bad. I'll admit math isn't my strong suite. :banghead:

 

[gngr~snap]

They don't assume on an autopsy. If they don't know they say undertemined means.
Somehow they know.
It could have been the condition of his cerebrospinal fluid.
A closed head injury resulting in death causes bleeding into the spinal canal (while he still had a heart beat)
I am guessing they found evidence of something similar to this.
Moo

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

 

[Dogmomof3]

Just read this morning on the "Drudge Report" that the Mexican Cartels were hiring "MS13" gangs to carry out hits in Minneapolis/Minnesota area. I know Minnesota is far away from Georgia but the brutality of this crime sounds like something a dangerous gang would do. Just don't think the family fits on a drug hit list. But it was my first thought when i read about this murder/kidnapping.

 

[Backwoods]

They don't assume on an autopsy. If they don't know they say undertemined means.
Somehow they know.
It could have been the condition of his cerebrospinal fluid.
A closed head injury resulting in death causes bleeding into the spinal canal (while he still had a heart beat)
I am guessing they found evidence of something similar to this.
Moo

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

On that 13WMAZ report at 11 p.m. that I mentioned, they said (repeating from earlier in the day) that the COD was largely from "process of elimination".

They also said -- new to me -- that toxicology IS still pending and that, should that show anything additional that contributed to the death, they will amend the COD.

 

[Bethanthony]

The Dermond's son Mark spent many years in prison-five in Sing Sing and several shorter stints in Georgia. Is it possible that he did something while in Jail to piss another inmate off? Could it be possible that person's sentence ended recently and they came looking for Mark, not knowing he was dead. I saw several instances of his address listed as the Dermond house...

 

[Dr.Watson]

Thanks for this opinion. Do you know if sonar can detect something at 100 ft? Maybe LE has already checked at the dam.

Didn't know Hickory, so I did some googling - found this interesting article about sonar being used by LE:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...g-help-from-cheap-easy-to-use-side-scan-sonar

 

[Madeleine74]

So far LE has said

- The adult children are NOT suspects.

- This crime has nothing to do with the son who was murdered a decade or more ago.

- The coroner has opined whatever was done to kill Mr Dermond was likely done to his head (blunt force trauma or gun shot), however they have not yet ruled out something toxicological and that takes weeks to get back.

- Mr Dermond was likely killed before he was decapitated.

- They don't think this is a random crime (but they are not saying why). They think this couple was targeted.

- They believe Mrs. Dermond was kidnapped (and has nothing to do with this crime).

- They don't know if the perp(s) used the waterway system or came via land. They just don't know at this point.

 

[Annie1004]

I feel on edge wondering if the so-called "other shoe" will drop on Mother's Day. The viciousness of this crime up to now leads me to fear something equally as gruesome has occurred to Mrs. D. The sicko(s) have shown nothing is beyond their reach in sheer horror.

Unimaginably heartbreaking for this family, their friends, neighbors, and anyone whose lives were touched by this lovely couple.

 

[Plumeria5]

My bad. I'll admit math isn't my strong suite. :banghead:

Me neither! :blushing:

 

[shadow of my mind]

I'm finding posts of an Olympic canoeist named Russell Dermond competing in 1960 and 1956. DOB is listed as 12/31/36 from New Jersey. Has a DOB been released? Coincidence?

Edited to add: the ages wouldn't add up. Probably nothing here but an uncanny coincidence.

Possibly not just a coincidence.

Russell Dermond played golf until a couple of years ago. He and his wife were in such good shape that they liked to keep their age a secret.
“I’m sure their friends are shocked to learn their ages now,” Keith Dermond said.
http://www.macon.com/2014/05/09/3089222/autopsy-sheds-little-light-on.html?sp=/99/148/


Looking at the 1940 census there were 2 men, of course both children at the time, named Russell Dermond living in Bergen County, NJ. The one you have mentioned, DOB 1936 is the younger one and the gentleman, the victim, DOB 1925 is the older one.

With Mr. Dermond and his wife actually looking younger than there ages, could this actually be a result of mistaken identity. Not having access to actual documents I have no way of knowing if the 1936 Dermond is still living.

Just a thought

 

[2Hope4]

Only on page 12, so haven't finished the thread yet. Could the Mrs have heard something horrible and fled?? If so, maybe that's why she wasn't found in the home. Maybe will be found near the area? If she was going for help, which direction would she go?

Had they been assisting someone that was down on their luck? Or a family member that they recently said "enough!" and stopped the money flow? Amazing that there has been no mention of any of the homes having their own cameras. Though I wouldn't know what it's like to own a million dollar home, or live in a gated community. Maybe they never felt like their life could be in danger.

Articles implying they both were in great shape for their age. Both remained active. No known major medical problems. No housekeeper. Probably no groundskeeper, but hasn't been stated that I know of. Were they generous people? Trusting?

Unless a random serial killer type crime, there must be a motive. Who would benefit the most from their deaths? The last article I read the sheriff said EVERYONE but him was a suspect, but he knew where he was!! All nephews, nieces, great nephews, great nieces, grandkids, friends of any of the above, etc., would all need to be ruled out. Did their deceased son have kids? I'm thinking WHO would benefit from their death?? Monetarily! If it was a business deal that someone felt they were cheated, a revenge kill....but other than revenge what would be the motive? Just the satisfaction of having the last word?

Can't see how the Mr was killed somewhere else, brought back to the garage, and no one saw anything? But there was a neighbor that had lived there 11yrs that really didn't know them. So were they sociable with the neighbors? Or kept to themselves for the most part? Can't see why the head was taken, unless to prove the murder took place, or to throw authorities off.

 

[Suthrnqt]

Marking my spot.....

 

[Cher352]

Hmm, I am wondering if anyone noticed a boat near by during the daytime hours..just sitting in the same spot (probably wouldn't seem out of place...I would naturally assume it was someone fishing)? My Dad was an avid boat person and I spent many years out on the lake with him, even overnight. Lakes can be tricky...even when you know them like the back of your hand. At night it is pitch black and you can run into the danger of running into stumps...even sandy areas. Usually the only landmark we could identify was the local state park and that was b/c it was a well lighted area. Most times we used spotlights if we were moving fishing spots, but usually set up in one spot until daylight. You would think someone would notice someone out on the water with a spotlight approaching their dock.

Seems like the killer may have waited nearby and had that route mapped out like the back of their hand...probably traveled it many times during the daylight hours. Maybe someone now remembers a boat that seemed to be around very often, but wasn't necessarily a regular before.

I agree that waterways can be very tricky at night. We have lived on a short canal to a large lake here in FL for decades and we still have to use a compass to navigate the lake and a light near shore after dark unless there is a very bright full moon. Plus sound carries very easily over water. We always hear any boat that comes down our canal day or night but it is especially noticeable after dark when all else is quite.

According to the info on their lot shown several pages back the Dermond's home was located at the end of a narrow cove so I would think any neighbors would have heard a boat. Plus there was barely any moon the weekend of the 3rd. It would be halfway between a new and 1st quarter moon so I have a hard time believing the perps came by boat at night. Daylight maybe but not between sunset and sunrise.

 

[tomkat]

The Dermond's son Mark spent many years in prison-five in Sing Sing and several shorter stints in Georgia. Is it possible that he did something while in Jail to piss another inmate off? Could it be possible that person's sentence ended recently and they came looking for Mark, not knowing he was dead. I saw several instances of his address listed as the Dermond house...

Oh my, I wondered the same thing but because of the span of time since MD death I couldn't put it together, but the not knowing MD was dead and him having the same address or lived with parents and it came up in searches of him, makes so much sense that it could be someone from MD past.

 

[tomkat]

Only on page 12, so haven't finished the thread yet. Could the Mrs have heard something horrible and fled?? If so, maybe that's why she wasn't found in the home. Maybe will be found near the area? If she was going for help, which direction would she go?

Had they been assisting someone that was down on their luck? Or a family member that they recently said "enough!" and stopped the money flow? Amazing that there has been no mention of any of the homes having their own cameras. Though I wouldn't know what it's like to own a million dollar home, or live in a gated community. Maybe they never felt like their life could be in danger.

Articles implying they both were in great shape for their age. Both remained active. No known major medical problems. No housekeeper. Probably no groundskeeper, but hasn't been stated that I know of. Were they generous people? Trusting?

Unless a random serial killer type crime, there must be a motive. Who would benefit the most from their deaths? The last article I read the sheriff said EVERYONE but him was a suspect, but he knew where he was!! All nephews, nieces, great nephews, great nieces, grandkids, friends of any of the above, etc., would all need to be ruled out. Did their deceased son have kids? I'm thinking WHO would benefit from their death?? Monetarily! If it was a business deal that someone felt they were cheated, a revenge kill....but other than revenge what would be the motive? Just the satisfaction of having the last word?

Can't see how the Mr was killed somewhere else, brought back to the garage, and no one saw anything? But there was a neighbor that had lived there 11yrs that really didn't know them. So were they sociable with the neighbors? Or kept to themselves for the most part? Can't see why the head was taken, unless to prove the murder took place, or to throw authorities off.

I wondered that too, maybe witnessing the crime she was shocked or hiding and now lost, but can you imagine the sheer SHOCK, lost or worse by now

I also wondered about a neighbors kid or relative being the perp since they could have known their routine without being suspicious

Yeah I don't see them bringing him back after the murder but that's JMO, but doesnt make sense to me

 

[tomkat]

So far LE has said

- The adult children are NOT suspects.

- This crime has nothing to do with the son who was murdered a decade or more ago.

- The coroner has opined whatever was done to kill Mr Dermond was likely done to his head (blunt force trauma or gun shot), however they have not yet ruled out something toxicological and that takes weeks to get back.

- Mr Dermond was likely killed before he was decapitated.

- They don't think this is a random crime (but they are not saying why). They think this couple was targeted.

- They believe Mrs. Dermond was kidnapped (and has nothing to do with this crime).

- They don't know if the perp(s) used the waterway system or came via land. They just don't know at this point.

I wonder how they can say anything for SURE, if they say they are at a loss

 

[Cher352]

I don't think he was brought back to the house dead. More likely to believe whoever did this carjacked Mr Dermond somewhere else and forced him to drive home. Once they used him to get pass the security gate and inside the enclosed garage they could have killed as soon as he stepped out of his vehicle.

 

[2Hope4]

I wonder if they routinely went out to eat supper? Maybe they came home to someone already inside the home??