GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 1

[LayzeeDayzee]

Does that mean he was alive when they beheaded him? Oh my, so sad.

No that info from autopsy doesn't lead one to think he was alive when decapitated. From this article I've read, it states he was deceased prior to being decapitated:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...d-dead-shirley-dermond-missing_n_5290989.html

I do wonder though.........was his head located? If so I must have missed it. Just wondering how the ME could determine his COD was cranial cerebral trauma if his head was still missing??

 

[Treelights]

No that info from autopsy doesn't lead one to think he was alive when decapitated. From this article I've read, it states he was deceased prior to being decapitated:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...d-dead-shirley-dermond-missing_n_5290989.html

I do wonder though.........was his head located? If so I must have missed it. Just wondering how the ME could determine his COD was cranial cerebral trauma if his head was still missing??

Because there is no other indication on the body of trauma elsewhere.
They are waiting for the toxicology reports which could take a couple weeks to get back.
No, his head is still missing. It PAINS me to write that!

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

more confirmation he was beheaded after his death and autopsy shows that he died of some head trauma due to lack of evidence of other injuries on the body

http://www.13wmaz.com/story/news/local/hancock/2014/05/09/putnam-murder-autopsy-report/8893493/

But without there being any toxicology results (these take weeks), how can they rule COD? How do we know he wasn't poisoned? It would seem more usual, IMO, in a case where you are missing a head, there do not appear to be any signs of injury or trauma to the remaining body and no tox results back yet, that an ME would not even comment yet on even a potential COD versus "assume" it's due to head trauma. Just strikes me as odd and a bit premature. ME's usually report nothing until they have something definite, IMO.

 

[gngr~snap]

No

But without there being any toxicology results (these take weeks), how can they rule COD? How do we know he wasn't poisoned? It would seem more usual, IMO, in a case where you are missing a head, there do not appear to be any signs of injury or trauma to the remaining body and no tox results back yet, that an ME would not even comment yet on even a potential COD versus "assume" it's due to head trauma. Just strikes me as odd and a bit premature. ME's usually report nothing until they have something definite, IMO.

IMO the ME found red blood cells in the cerebrospinal fluid which would indicate a traumatic brain injury prior to being decapitated. It should be clear. If it was bloody, the heart would have to be beating for blood to get into the spinal fluid.

That is all I can come up with.
I have treated patients with skull fractures and when a lumbar pucture was done it was bloody and not clear.
Moo

Or they found a piece of skull or brain tissue at the scene and just haven't relayed that info.
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[gngr~snap]

Or they found a piece of skull or brain tissue at the scene and just haven't relayed that info.
Or a dent in the drywall or car hood that a head made, WHO KNOWS!

I agree they don't just guess.
Sorry! My phone burped!


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[Jabarn]

http://www.fbi.gov/charlotte/press-...chael-hilton-sentenced-to-four-life-sentences

Many of you remember Gary Michael Hilton. He came across, as I guess the FBI would classify, as a mixed offender. Seriously disturbed, but capable of getting away with it. I am thinking the offender of this crime may be kind of like him. A drifter, watching... I seriously doubt he owns a home in that specific neighborhood but may have access to a boat. I am not saying a nice boat by any means. There may be a wooded place where someone could camp out with a small fishing boat near there. In addition to looking for something in the water, I think LE needs to be looking for an abandoned camping spot in the vicinity.

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

Some thoughts.....

1. Is it possible that any of other residents of this rather affluent community may be traveling and as such, left or hired someone to live in their home, as a 'house sitter' of sorts? Most people who are on a vacation or are traveling for any period of time, are not going to just leave their home vacant/unattended - even IF the community is considered a very safe one. If for no other reason that insurance purposes (most home owners policies indicate that your coverage can be nullified if something happens to your home and you're away and have left it unattended for more than a certain # of days). So hopefully LE has checked with all neighbors/residents in the area with respect to this. And often, people who routinely travel, will often use the same person/company to house sit for them.........so if that's the case, the house sitters could know the area, geography very well. They could even possibly have met the Dermonds in the past.....and could have stopped by the Dermonds' home and would have been let in (and as such, no signs of forced entry) as they were familiar.

2. Who stands to gain anything from their deaths? Beneficiaries?

3. What were their relationships like with children and adult grandchildren? son inlaws?

4. I wonder if any past disagreements with neighbors/other residents in their community?

5. Given Mrs Dermonds' advanced age and the fact that it's reported she didn't have housekeeping help...and due to the sheer size of the home, it almost seems unrealistic to me that she would been physically capable of cleaning the home to the degree that LE/Sheriff Stills described it as being in pristine condition." Sounds more to me like multiple people did a major crime scene clean up to remove any possible traces of footprints, fingerprints, etc.

6. I'd be curious to hear what the local speculation/gossip is around there as to what may have happened.

7. Someone posted a few pages back, a quote from a news article that stated Mrs Dermonds had done the Friday Crossword...but they hadn't picked up their Saturday mail. Here in Canada, there is no mail delivery on the weekends. Is there in the U.S. or were they maybe referring to Saturday newspaper delivery?

8. Have the sons come into town to be there while LE investigates?

9. Did the Dermonds ever travel themselves and hire a house-sitter or neighbor's son/relative to house-sit for them?

 

[gngr~snap]

Didn't Sills say it was so clean almost like no one even lived there?
I for one believe there was a clean up.
Moo

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[noZme]

When shortly after the discovery of Mr D, deputies & tracking dogs found no evidence of Mrs D, canvassing of the immediate neighbors in the area turned up nothing & there was nothing remarkable about traffic thru the gatehouse, Sheriff Sills began working under theory that Mrs D was in the lake, probably weighted down. They actually had dragging & side-scan sonar searches out there rather quickly. And, the murder had occurred about 3 days before & there had been no communication or bank activities - therefore there was very little chance she was alive. I think that is why there has been no offer of reward.

But, why not leave both of them dead in the garage? I said before it would have slowed "them" down to leave the scene with a woman that age. Did she know what had happened to her husband & collapsed or died before they could use her to get money? And if money was motive, why not take something from the house? Was/were the killer(s) in a paddle boat for stealth? Two & three person kayaks are extremely popular & can be operated with less light than even a jon boat.

I'm still thinking nut-job thrill killer. A very lucky nut-job to have left no evidence (that we know) & had a couple days head start.. Professional hit, connection to son's criminal activities, revenge, witness protection & all that seems a bit too bad tv movie.

Many, many questions & no real answers. I think they have good investigators; I hope they are also lucky!

ETA, I do not think there was a clean-up. Everything, I have read leads me to believe they were active, alert & tidy people. The killers are likely to have never entered the house. Everything took place in the garage or porches. Whomever did it came there to kill, did their business & left.

One more thing. The vigil is about to begin. It's scheduled for 8:15.

 

[Jabarn]

When shortly after the discovery of Mr D, deputies & tracking dogs found no evidence of Mrs D, canvassing of the immediate neighbors in the area turned up nothing & there was nothing remarkable about traffic thru the gatehouse, Sheriff Sills began working under theory that Mrs D was in the lake, probably weighted down. They actually had dragging & side-scan sonar searches out there rather quickly. And, the murder had occurred about 3 days before & there had been no communication or bank activities - therefore there was very little chance she was alive. I think that is why there has been no offer of reward.

But, why not leave both of them dead in the garage? I said before it would have slowed "them" down to leave the scene with a woman that age. Did she know what had happened to her husband & collapsed or died before they could use her to get money? And if money was motive, why not take something from the house? Was/were the killer(s) in a paddle boat for stealth? Two & three person kayaks are extremely popular & can be operated with less light than even a jon boat.

I'm still thinking nut-job thrill killer. A very lucky nut-job to have left no evidence (that we know) & had a couple days head start.. Professional hit, connection to son's criminal activities, revenge, witness protection & all that seems a bit too bad tv movie.

Many, many questions & no real answers. I think they have good investigators; I hope they are also lucky!

I have studied the two sons that are left; they are very successful by themselves and do not appear to have a motive to do something as horrific as this. Another argument could be made that in their international real estate deals, this was a message to them. Unless one of the sons transfers a large sum of money from his bank to another, this is a unfortunate situation of a disturbed individual who targets the elderly, IMO. Not the first.

 

[noZme]

I have studied the two sons that are left; they are very successful by themselves and do not appear to have a motive to do something as horrific as this. Another argument could be made that in their international real estate deals, this was a message to them. Unless one of the sons transfers a large sum of money from his bank to another, this is a unfortunate situation of a disturbed individual who targets the elderly, IMO. Not the first.

I did a little snooping too. It appears they were a "nice" family. I saw a grandson's photo of the Dermonds on a family trip to Europe as his tribute to them. Mr D was called "Daddoo." Other comments & photos would indicate they were all in school, working, successful & heartbroken about this tragedy.

(I think this very vague comment is allowed.)

 

[Destini]

This whole situation reads like some scary crime novel. As it is somewhat local to me & is on all the news channels, I decided to come back to WS after a long hiatus to see what the opinions are here. Great minds at work for sure!

Thinking about all the possibilities, the one thing I cannot understand is why did they take the Mrs. She would make the "getaway" complicated. Only thing I can come up with is maybe they took her to force her to withdraw money from an account. This would mean it couldn't be a random stranger but someone who knows something about their finances. All just speculation, of course. But I sure do hope LE are looking through their computers, drawers, filing cabinets & checking for withdrawals made from accounts. So, so sad.

 

[Jabarn]

I did a little snooping too. It appears they were a "nice" family. I saw a grandson's photo of the Dermonds on a family trip to Europe as his tribute to them. Mr D was called "Daddoo." Other comments & photos would indicate they were all in school, working, successful & heartbroken about this tragedy.

(I think this very vague comment is allowed.)

I am not sure what is allowed either... But I guess if you are saying someone, based on your websleuthing,
doesn't seem to have a guilty web trail and you are not making reckless accusations, you should be ok. All in all, seems like a nice family and even though the unfortunate situation happened with the one son, that doesn't mean many years later it led to this.

 

[Foxfire]

Hey folks, been trying to catch up on the reading. Although I live in north GA, I seldom watch the local news and didn't hear about this mysterious tragic murder and kidnapping until a couple of days ago.
Someone mentioned the median income for the area being very low. The area was very rural up until a few years ago when Atlantan's & other baby boomers from neighboring states began buying up larger tracts of undeveloped & developed lakeside wooded property.

Living in a rural area of GA myself, imo, there is likely a drug(meth) epidemic in Putnam County, where the Dermond's lived. In the many cases that I have researched where heinous crimes of this nature occurred, there has been one common denominator; meth..
The demeanor of the seasoned Sheriff, coupled with the unsub/s psychological profile, and the speed of which the GBI & FBI was invited in, imo, indicates an unknown psychopathic predator. Imo, the FBI BAU2 was enroute within hours of locating the torso.

There is only one prior homicide/decapitation/kidnapping of an elderly couple in the last few years that comes to mind; John(81) and Irene (86) Bryant (Pisgah National Forest, NC- 10/2007) John & Irene had been married 58 years. Irene was found murdered on a hiking trail missing parts, and John was kidnapped and his decapitated remains were found weeks later and miles away in the Pink Beds, NC. Their murderer serial killer Gary Hilton(61), went on to Tallahassee, FL, and then to Blood Mtn, GA, taking the lives of two more innocent victims; Cheryl Dunlap(42), and Meredith Hope Emerson(24).
http://www.blueridgenow.com/article/20080322/OBITUARIES/803220313?tc=ar
http://www.fbi.gov/charlotte/press-...chael-hilton-sentenced-to-four-life-sentences (GMH is on Death Row in FL)

The reason that I compare these cases is due to the likely motive and traits of the unknown psychopathic creature responsible for Mr Dermond's murder/decapitation and Mrs. Dermond's kidnapping are synonymous to GMH's...jmo

The proximity to the Dermond's residence and Interstate 20 should also be considered, imo.

 

[Jabarn]

This whole situation reads like some scary crime novel. As it is somewhat local to me & is on all the news channels, I decided to come back to WS after a long hiatus to see what the opinions are here. Great minds at work for sure!

Thinking about all the possibilities, the one thing I cannot understand is why did they take the Mrs. She would make the "getaway" complicated. Only thing I can come up with is maybe they took her to force her to withdraw money from an account. This would mean it couldn't be a random stranger but someone who knows something about their finances. All just speculation, of course. But I sure do hope LE are looking through their computers, drawers, filing cabinets & checking for withdrawals made from accounts. So, so sad.

Mrs. Dermond may have been the target. Not the money. Now, if I had to speculate why her husband was decapitated, the only thing I am left with, his murderer is a sadist, and I feel very sad for the Mrs. D. hope the FBI/ police has some searchers in the woods either looking for abandoned camp sites, tents, old boats, etc.

 

[Backwoods]

Dermond killer wasn’t local, Putnam residents believe

...At the sheriff’s department Saturday, a deputy said Sills was out working on the case. The deputy said there was nothing new to report, and that there were still no signs of Shirley Dermond or her husband’s missing head....

more at: http://www.macon.com/2014/05/10/3091430/dermond-killer-wasnt-local-putnam.html?sp=/99/100/&ihp=1

Things are mighty quiet from official sources, today. I HOPE that means they are working some good leads.

Not unusual, IMO, for locals to think "this wasn't someone from around here" -- whether or not it is.

Thinking so much about this family here on Mother's Day eve. God bless them.

 

[Foxfire]

http://www.fbi.gov/charlotte/press-...chael-hilton-sentenced-to-four-life-sentences

Many of you remember Gary Michael Hilton. He came across, as I guess the FBI would classify, as a mixed offender. Seriously disturbed, but capable of getting away with it. I am thinking the offender of this crime may be kind of like him. A drifter, watching... I seriously doubt he owns a home in that specific neighborhood but may have access to a boat. I am not saying a nice boat by any means. There may be a wooded place where someone could camp out with a small fishing boat near there. In addition to looking for something in the water, I think LE needs to be looking for an abandoned camping spot in the vicinity.

Fool's minds, Jabarn...
I read your post a second after posting mine.. GMH, was no drifter, but only thought to be a drifter by the GBI when first arrested. His IQ was later found to be within the top 10% of the USA. GMH was an Emulator; a copycat of many serial killers prior with a twist of his own thrown in. GMH was very calculating, creative, manipulative, and deflective as are most psychopaths, and likely many of the traits will be found in the perp/s involved in this abduction/murder..

Due to the many State/National Forests in the area, I agree camping sites; specifically primitive sites deep in the forest should be scrutinized.
Imo the Lake is a red herring and the perp/s calculated that the search of the lake for SD would buy them time.. The GBI/FBI likely has much more crime scene evidence/info than they are sharing, that paints a very dark and bleak picture of the evil that occurred there, imo...

Although the Sheriff has been very forthcoming with info up to this point. Due to the FBI/GBI's silence strategy, I don't foresee much transparency in the future, imo..

 

[gngr~snap]

more at: http://www.macon.com/2014/05/10/3091430/dermond-killer-wasnt-local-putnam.html?sp=/99/100/&ihp=1

Things are mighty quiet from official sources, today. I HOPE that means they are working some good leads.

Not unusual, IMO, for locals to think "this wasn't someone from around here" -- whether or not it is.

Thinking so much about this family here on Mother's Day eve. God bless them.

Did you notice who took the picture in the
article? the guard house on the right?
Good thing it wasn't Friday the 13th
and they don't live on Camp Crystal Lake!

Sorry, I had to chuckle a little.

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[Destini]

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/channel-2-joins-dnr-survey-lake-near-putnam-co-cou/nfswy/

Channel 2’s Liz Artz was on the lake with DNR rangers Saturday afternoon as they searched for clues in the mystery. They have used side-scan sonar to see images up to 360 feet to the right and left under the boat. Putnam County investigators were out on the water all day also conducting shoreline searches

 

[Backwoods]

But without there being any toxicology results (these take weeks), how can they rule COD? How do we know he wasn't poisoned? It would seem more usual, IMO, in a case where you are missing a head, there do not appear to be any signs of injury or trauma to the remaining body and no tox results back yet, that an ME would not even comment yet on even a potential COD versus "assume" it's due to head trauma. Just strikes me as odd and a bit premature. ME's usually report nothing until they have something definite, IMO.

In TV news report from last night linked earlier, the anchor said the ME was asked what would happen if toxicology came back showing something -- answer was, the COD would be changed. So maybe this is just a "tentative COD" ...?