GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #10

[dancinunderthemoon]

It looks to me as though this was either a kidnapping for a ransom that went terribly wrong or someone was going to inherit a large sum of money and wanted/needed it sooner rather than later. If the latter it would be in their best interests to make it look like a psycho committed this horrific crime. However, a hired gun is another possibility. The beheading may have been to remove evidence of a gunshot. JMO

I believe I have read too many murder mysteries.

thanks for your comment THyme, I have thought and said the same, but so many scenarios in my head. This was well planned and thought out, the more I think about it the more I KNOW.

THE MOON CYCLE, DARK
SECLUDED HOME
VACATION HOMES ALL AROUND
ENTER BY WATER, EXIT BY WATER
HIDING POSSIBLY, IN BROAD DAYLIGHT
NOT TO MENTION.............SEASON ON LAKE BEGINS NOW, MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND, THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE IN TRAFFIC, FROM NONE before the holiday, school lets out, TO THOUSANDS IN ONE DAY BOATING starting the day schools let out and memorial day weekend begins
TAMPERED WITH HOME SECURITY (DOESN ANYONE KNOW HOW IT WAS TAMPERED WITH)
CONFUSING INVESTIGATION BY MOVING SD TO ANOTHER LOCATION
POSSIBLY CONFUSING INVESTIGATION WITH BEHEADING (to make it look like a hit, naturally because they are from NJ, that's what most think)
VERY CLEAN HOME, NO OR LITTLE FORENSICS

WELL THOUGTH OUT AND PLANNED

 

[Montjoy]

Is there any link to say that the security system was 'tampered with', or was it simply not functioning properly? There's a world of difference between the two.

 

[Foxfire]

Is there any link to say that the security system was 'tampered with', or was it simply not functioning properly? There's a world of difference between the two.

Montjoy, I think you may be aware that there is not a link for this info which came from the live chat line that Sheriff Sills participated in on November 11/2014. Can you provide a link where it is stated that the security system was simply not functioning properly? TYIA

<There was a live chat before, during and after this broadcast>
A Lake without Leads: Putnam Co. murders remain a mystery
http://www.11alive.com/story/news/l...10/lake-oconee-murder-putnam-county/18811169/

_______________
Discussion of chat line on websleuths Dermond thread 11/11/2014 - Found Deceased GA - Shirley Dermond, 87, Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2-4 May 2014 # 9 - page 22
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ermond-88-Putnam-County-2-4-May-2014-9/page22

 

[Montjoy]

I checked that link. It does not state that the security system was tampered with. So, I guess that the answer to my question is 'no'. People stating that the security system was tampered with as a fact are treating a big assumption as if a fact. That's not conducive to good detective work, IMO.

 

[Foxfire]

I checked that link. It does not state that the security system was tampered with. So, I guess that the answer to my question is 'no'. People stating that the security system was tampered with as a fact are treating a big assumption as if a fact. That's not conducive to good detective work, IMO.

Since you can't provide a link where it is stated that the security system was simply not functioning properly? Guess, we will just have to agree to disagree..
I find it odd that the security system at the Dermond home and the security cameras at the RP/GW Guard House were both having technical difficulties at around the same time of the unsolved Dermond murders/executions.. Seems, this should at least raise a red flag to a good detective, imo..

Also seems that a good detective would comprehend that the soulless sadistic creatures that committed these horrific crimes were not amateurs and have likely done this kind of thing before, many times, imo.. There has been a very dark and bleak painting created, reminiscent of the common themes of a southern gothic horror movie.. 'Except this is tragic reality'.. 'A good seasoned detective should be able to interpret the meaning of their artwork, as the writing is on the wall and the Devil is in the details. 'If only the good detective could see the forest for the trees'..deja vu... jmo

 

[Peppery]

I thought one of the sons said early on that his parents took care of the house themselves, didn't have a housekeeper or lawn guy. But why is SS now talking about interviewing their employees? Is he talking about fast food employees from many years ago? Or did they in fact have some help maintaining their home?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I thought one of the sons said early on that his parents took care of the house themselves, didn't have a housekeeper or lawn guy. But why is SS now talking about interviewing their employees? Is he talking about fast food employees from many years ago? Or did they in fact have some help maintaining their home?

I was kind of assuming, employees in the fastfood bs they owned, I don't know how long they've been out of the bs, but I think one of the last articles stated that RD retired in the 80's from westclox then moved to sandy springs and then oconnee, upon arriving in ga they started the fastfood restaurants, hardees, wendy's both or more IDK but I had read they were sold and i think the son/s/took them over, however it transpired, possibly 90's? There is information on the Corporation(s) that has been posted before

I know SS said maybe he had not looked far enough back in their past, only about 8 yrs I think, so maybe now he is going back further in the investigation?

But I definitely agree with Foxfire, this was well thought out and planned murder, not by an amateur IMO, by someone who's done this before I feel also

I just don't see someone being angry at RD or family that worked for them, not that someone couldn't or wouldn't of course but wreaking this much havoc and confusion yet so precisely handled and without a trace of evidence (thus far as we know)JMO

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

first .quarter/half moon.....STILL DARK ON THE LAKE

 

[Foxfire]

first .quarter/half moon.....STILL DARK ON THE LAKE

Dancinunderthemoon, compare the darkness on the lake with last night's moon with the darkness on 05/02/2014..
Thanx for sharing your personal observations.. As the old saying goes, 'you can't connect the dots if you don't collect the dots'..
The lack of the moons' illumination due to the phase and setting time was not a mere coincidence, imo. This is just one more indicator of how well planned, and how meticulously executed the targeted Dermond murders were, imo. Yet after over a year without a motive in sight, Sheriff Howard Sills told Joe Kovac Jr. of The Macon Telegraph that he and his deputies are not muddling along in the dark... 'Go figure'..

New details as mystery reigns in year-old Dermond lake murders
BY JOE KOVAC JR.

Read more here: http://www.macon.com/2015/05/02/3726718_new-details-as-mystery-reigns.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy
____________

Rising and setting times for the Moon - <Moonrise and moonset in Atlanta> http://www.timeanddate.com/moon/usa/atlanta
<snipped & BBM>

Date ----------Moonrise - Moonset - Time - Altitude - Distance - Illuminated - Phase

May 25, 2015 1:27 PM - 1:49 AM - 7:57 PM - 61.7 - 250,862 52.7% - First Quarter at 1:19 PM
_________

May 2, 2014 9:27 AM - 11:40 PM - 4:34 PM - 74.3° - 246,671 - 13.4% - Waxing Crescent

May 6, 2014 12:56 PM 1:46 AM 7:41 PM 66.9° 251,129 48.7% First Quarter at 11:15 PM
_________________________________________________________________________________________

<Unanswered Questions>

The Rev. David W. Key Sr. of Lake Oconee Community Church, where the Dermonds were members, says shock and despair linger.

&#8220;It may have shattered any kind of false security that we&#8217;ve had,&#8221; Key, 52, said last week. &#8220;Now part of the challenge is that we live with unanswered questions.&#8221;

<Snipped & BBM> Read more here: http://www.macon.com/2015/05/02/3726718_new-details-as-mystery-reigns.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy
_____________________________

"Life is an unanswered question, but let's still believe in the dignity and importance of the question".
Tennessee Williams quote..

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Dancinunderthemoon, compare the darkness on the lake with last night's moon with the darkness on 05/02/2014..
Thanx for sharing your personal observations.. As the old saying goes, 'you can't connect the dots if you don't collect the dots'..
The lack of the moons' illumination due to the phase and setting time was not a coincidence, imo. This is just one more indicator of how well planned, and how meticulously executed the targeted Dermond murders were, imo. Yet after over a year without a motive in sight, Sheriff Howard Sills told Joe Kovac Jr. of The Macon Telegraph that he and his deputies are not muddling along in the dark... 'Go figure'..

Read more here: http://www.macon.com/2015/05/02/3726718_new-details-as-mystery-reigns.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy

Rising and setting times for the Moon - <Moonrise and moonset in Atlanta>
<snipped & BBM>

Date ----------Moonrise - Moonset - Time - Altitude - Distance - Illuminated - Phase

May 25, 2015 1:27 PM - 1:49 AM - 7:57 PM - 61.7 - 250,862 52.7% - First Quarter at 1:19 PM
_________

May 2, 2014 9:27 AM - 11:40 PM - 4:34 PM - 74.3° - 246,671 - 13.4% - Waxing Crescent

May 6, 2014 12:56 PM 1:46 AM 7:41 PM 66.9° 251,129 48.7% First Quarter at 11:15 PM

Yes Foxfire, I have seen it and posted some pics once, it's indeed darker on the new moon phase

too many factors against the D's on that day, well planned and thought out IMO

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Has anyone researched the Wendy's and chic fil a franchises the dermonds owned and how involved were they? I really dont' think it's a disgruntled employee IMO but good to eliminate, when SS options run out and dead ends are met again, where will he look?

Also thinking, aren't MOST of the people interviewed pretty cooperative? There are red flags but some people are very very good actors/actresses

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

thanks for your comment THyme, I have thought and said the same, but so many scenarios in my head. This was well planned and thought out, the more I think about it the more I KNOW.

THE MOON CYCLE, DARK
SECLUDED HOME
VACATION HOMES ALL AROUND
ENTER BY WATER, EXIT BY WATER
HIDING POSSIBLY, IN BROAD DAYLIGHT
NOT TO MENTION.............SEASON ON LAKE BEGINS NOW, MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND, THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE IN TRAFFIC, FROM NONE before the holiday, school lets out, TO THOUSANDS IN ONE DAY BOATING starting the day schools let out and memorial day weekend begins
TAMPERED WITH HOME SECURITY (DOESN ANYONE KNOW HOW IT WAS TAMPERED WITH)
CONFUSING INVESTIGATION BY MOVING SD TO ANOTHER LOCATION
POSSIBLY CONFUSING INVESTIGATION WITH BEHEADING (to make it look like a hit, naturally because they are from NJ, that's what most think)
VERY CLEAN HOME, NO OR LITTLE FORENSICS

WELL THOUGTH OUT AND PLANNED

also a pontoon boat was used IMO, with a front door like this side door, pictured, usually doors on both sides of the vessel, just slide and drop, it's how people board after swimming. It wasn't a canoe, too unstable, not that one wasn't used for a decoy in some way, not a fishing boat or speed boat, sides are high, no doors to exit easily, also notice the metal in this picture, it and seats are all the way around the perimeter and there is a central walkway, great for hiding a body IMO and easy to dump, probably body first then cap block if the body floats at all, cinder block won't float at all

Gruesome truths

 

[Foxfire]

The Dermond Lakeside Home at 147 Carolyn Drive was previously valued at 1.2 million. The original listing price was priced at $769,000 for quick sale. The sale price was then lowered to $523,000.00 with almost 4,000 total views, yet did not sale. What can be gleaned from this info?

<BBM for Focus>
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/147-Carolyn-Dr-Eatonton-GA-31024/110310631_zpid/
147 Carolyn Dr,
Eatonton, GA 31024
4 beds 4 baths 3,255 sqft
OFF MARKET
Zestimate®: $782,560

Price History

DATE EVENT PRICE $/SQFT SOURCE
05/15/15 Listing removed $769,000 $236 Atlanta Fine H...
11/27/14 Listed for sale $769,000 $236 Atlanta Fine H...

Bumping Post from 04/29/2015

04-29-2015, 09:19 PM #1000 Foxfire

If my memory is correct, the Dermond's home was originally listed for over $750,00.00 in 2014.

PUBLIC RECORD
<For Sale $523,000.00
147 Carolyn Dr
Eatonton, GA 31024
http://www.trulia.com/homes/Georgia/...-31024#photo-4

 

[Foxfire]

On a recent afternoon, Putnam sheriff&#8217;s Detective Dave Henry was in Sills&#8217; office.

Aside from Sills, Henry knows more about the Dermond case than anyone.

Henry is 62, a slim, deep-voiced, Vidalia-born career cop. Before joining Sills&#8217; staff in 2012, he helped train police investigators in Iraq.

<snipped>

The Dermond case has all but consumed him.

&#8220;Seems like every free minute I&#8217;ve got, my mind is rehashing stuff, trying to think of things we may have missed or overlooked,&#8221; Henry said.

&#8220;I try to keep an open mind. I try to keep the blinders off, because I don&#8217;t want to get tunnel vision on any one person or any one theory. ... Everybody&#8217;s got their own theory on what happened -- and a lot of them are possible.&#8221;

Tips, meanwhile, have run the gamut.

None, of course, has panned out.

&#8220;Anything that is halfway sane is a very plausible theory,&#8221; Henry said, &#8220;at this point.&#8221;

He recalls one tipster, though, who was convinced that the killer is an al-Qaida or Islamic State operative.

Some have suggested professional hit men as the culprits. Others figure the Dermonds fell prey to a cult.

Still others wonder if the slayings were a plot by religious zealots to embarrass the sheriff for sending Nuwaubian leader Dwight York to federal prison for life in a heralded case from a decade ago.

Leads have, at times, looked promising. They have merited days, weeks of inquiry. They have led investigators to other parts of Georgia and out of state.

Yet they have all, not unlike the villain whose misdeeds provoked them, faded into oblivion for the time being.

&#8220;There&#8217;s been a lot of brick walls in this case,&#8221; Henry said. &#8220;I mean, just dead end after dead end.


<snipped & BBM for focus - New details as mystery reigns in year-old Dermond lake murders
BY JOE KOVAC JR.
[email protected] 2, 2015
Read more here: http://www.macon.com/2015/05/02/3726718_new-details-as-mystery-reigns.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy
________________________

&#8220;A painter paints pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.&#8221; Quote by Leopold Stokowski
______

"Guess sadistic predators paint their pictures of evil on darkness, unsolved crimes, and unanswered question. There must be darkness present for the light to shine through.. and you must enter the fire to extinguish the flames of evil"..

 

[DAMIFINO]

also a pontoon boat was used IMO, with a front door like this side door, pictured, usually doors on both sides of the vessel, just slide and drop, it's how people board after swimming. It wasn't a canoe, too unstable, not that one wasn't used for a decoy in some way, not a fishing boat or speed boat, sides are high, no doors to exit easily, also notice the metal in this picture, it and seats are all the way around the perimeter and there is a central walkway, great for hiding a body IMO and easy to dump, probably body first then cap block if the body floats at all, cinder block won't float at all

Gruesome truths

View attachment 75287

Got some good ideas going around. I like the pontoon boat scenario.
There is SO much that we don't know that SS does. When he gives out a little tidbit, I tend to believe it...like he said that he thought the thing began in the morning. Mrs. D was up and dressed and Mr. D was up in his robe drinking coffee and reading, his morning routine. Since Mrs. D was a perfect housekeeper, I can imagine that she would not let a used coffee cup sit around. Also, there may have been a pot of coffee still sitting on the coffee maker, waiting for Mr. D to get another cup. There may have been the trash from the morning coffee making in the trash can.. more that pins down the time. And their children, especially the daughter who had just been there, would know what the family morning routine was.
SO, plug that into your timelines, etc and see what you get. Would the perps have taken both the Dermonds on a boat alive or dead and come back later? Would they have stayed around the house until dark?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Yes, morsels, argh, I'm sure he knows aplenty he's not telling. the lawn guy description may be withheld for witness' sake, only 1 or 2 houses could have seen that, unless it was a fisherman, but to withhold it makes the perp feel like he's not been ID'd, or could be to make the lawn person nervous, IDK, I'd worry about the very very few witnesses there could be. I'd be worried for my life that he may have seen me

Ok, DID SS mention coffee? the last article I read stated "house was immaculate but for an unmade bed and tipped lamp shade (WHERE bdrm or den?).

Seems like people speculated about the coffee, I"m gonna leave it out unless someone has a link to that info or I find one.

will post in a while, shorten my post lol, otherwise I ramble

 

[DAMIFINO]

Yes, morsels, argh, I'm sure he knows aplenty he's not telling. the lawn guy description may be withheld for witness' sake, only 1 or 2 houses could have seen that, unless it was a fisherman, but to withhold it makes the perp feel like he's not been ID'd, or could be to make the lawn person nervous, IDK, I'd worry about the very very few witnesses there could be. I'd be worried for my life that he may have seen me

Ok, DID SS mention coffee? the last article I read stated "house was immaculate but for an unmade bed and tipped lamp shade (WHERE bdrm or den?).

Seems like people speculated about the coffee, I"m gonna leave it out unless someone has a link to that info or I find one.

will post in a while, shorten my post lol, otherwise I ramble

Further down in that same article:
Shirley, the sheriff says, appears to have been up and dressed for the day, while Russ, in a robe, T-shirt, boxer shorts and slippers, may have, when the killer arrived, just been into his morning coffee-drinking and reading routine.

Read more here: http://www.macon.com/2015/05/02/3726718_new-details-as-mystery-reigns.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Ok I know the man on the lawn was seen saturday daytime IIRC, but makes sense, he wouldnt have been seen most likely if it was nighttime but could have been seen early evening just before dark by neighbors who came out on their dock or deck, seems like there were too many trees to see from inside their houses, IIRC there were very few neighbors that could see there yard anyway except from the dock or down near the waterway

Having said that, then it could have been saturDAY, early morning, they just rose since the bed was unmade and the guy on the lawn was seen saturday, she was dressed getting ready to run personal errands for the derby party

I just cannot fathom this all happening during the day, its SO dark on the lake at night, SO EASY to go unnoticed Especially with no moon

Since everything was SO immaculate even after the murder and kidnapping, could it have been that the guy on the lawn had returned, looking for something??? Everything was perfect, (so far as we know) maybe something was lost, a knife or something, why risk leaving that behind if you aren't sure where it was dropped? Their whole plan would have been blown, IDK, speculating and brainstorming, I can't imagine a man standing on the lawn in open view in the bright sunlight unless it was urgent

Its also so easy to ride around in a boat and no one knows who you are or where you are from. They could have driven the route once or twice before event day, "fishing" and watching, preparing for some "night fishing" if they weren't completely familiar with lake but someone was familiar with a boat and boating or even oconnee since she was dumped in lake, clearly by boat, not too close to the shore IIRC,

a cinder block can move if there is a ton of traffic, but before memorial day, it's very quiet on the water in the daytime typically

It's dark on the lake on many moon phases, so determining whether the decoy was the new moon of fri 2nd, or the derby party saturday 3rd, is the question

perfect timing if the new moon was not the decoy, if this all began friday evening, no moon, exceptionally dark, say Mr D had mowed the lawn on Friday so not to have to worry about it over the weekend as they'd be busy with party plans saturday, then probably tired and/or church only on Sunday, they were 89/88

We know they collected the mail/paper on friday, so RD COULD have been in bed early and she may have been still dressed and up doing crosswords as was her thing IIRC, or whatever else, he could have been awakened by noise or the doorbell or MRs D, saying there's someone at the door or someone in the yard or soemthing. Men dont' think of dresscode at night LOL, maybe the reason for robe atleast tho

but we dont' know if there was coffee, do we?? for sure? and even if there was, she may have made coffee in the evening for herself, my grandparents used to do that, coffee and buscuits

SO if friday night attack, easily drag, carry or walk her down to the pontoon in the cover on the empty cove lot past the D's end of culdesac

I'm not real sure how I think the ambush happened exactly for there to be no noise or one running screaming, so either one was snuck up on, or maybe he heard her screams or muffles, awoke and was hit and dragged into the garage that fri night but i doubt he'd have donned a robe unless he just heard bumps and not suspecting anything, got up casual like put on his robe and went into the kitchen or LR and was attacked secondly since she was dressed, she may have gotten it first

I'm going to check out the google maps for views on surrounding lots

This would appear to mean the moon phase was the decoy in addition to other things

next my daytime scenario

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Further down in that same article:
Shirley, the sheriff says, appears to have been up and dressed for the day, while Russ, in a robe, T-shirt, boxer shorts and slippers, may have, when the killer arrived, just been into his morning coffee-drinking and reading routine.

Read more here: http://www.macon.com/2015/05/02/3726718_new-details-as-mystery-reigns.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy

OK so THERE WAS coffee or just that there MAY HAVE been , as I read it, RD might be getting up due to him in the boxers and robe and unmade bed and about to make coffee, IDK maybe there was, maybe not. How do they know he was reading......?

Ok, so I looked at the lots, can't find a good picture view from the dermonds while standing in their lakeside yard, facing the cove and lots across from them, except one sort of overhead shot, posted below, and you can see the dock directly across facing open water, probably remember that from the early interviews, would really like to see the view on the ground the D&#8217;s had of the neighbors

All the lots as you all know surrounding the cove and dermond&#8217;s house are all heavily treed, lot 113 on map posted below is an empty lot,it&#8217;s in the middle across from D&#8217;s, the very end cove lot has a house and permanent resident, the cove lot next to the Dermonds is vacant and the one on the other side of the Dermonds is a vacant lot, no docks, the residence at the end of the cove across from empty cove lot, has no dock

SO the only dock is across from the Dermonds property and dock, at the house whose property is mostly facing the open water, where the dock is located, and probably has already been determined by sleuthers, in previous images and sleuthing that&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..

THAT is the dock whose residents witnessed the man on the lawn and are permanent residents and could probably see a person on the lawn, maybe they could tell it was a man but now I understand why they may not have been able to give a description, the distance, that makes sense now if there is no description, It&#8217;s the only dock that I see that can readily see the Dermonds lakefront yard. If they are less than 200 ft away, they might be able to see something of description in coloring of clothes maybe and race but not sure how far away that is, one acre is 210 deep and 210 wide, so probably several acres away possibly and the reason for no description

The neighbors on the other side of the dermonds have a dock as well and may be able to see a man if he was near the shore in the dermonds yard but not if he was further up in the yard, due to the trees in between their lot and the D&#8217;s

I&#8217;m really finding it very hard to believe that someone came in broad daylight and did this, given how dark the lake is at night, would have been SO SO VERY easy to accomplish unnoticed, but I know it happens all the time

http://qpublic7.qpublic.net/qpmap4/...8&layers=parcels+streetnum+roads+parcel_sales

http://www.bing.com/maps/default.as...36207&style=o&lvl=19&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1500

http://bcdownload.gannett.edgesuite...1_vs-536a746ae4b0f97b69654de3-672293876001.jp

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

SO they were hiding in broad daylight, it&#8217;s really easy to look at houses for sale on the lake and go back later and no one even notices a thing, it&#8217;s real easy to fish on the open river or coves and no one suspects a thing, I mean in the daylight hours, so because it&#8217;s normal around the lakes, people don&#8217;t even notice you, now if someone came up to a few houses around my sisters place that are 90% unvisited, I&#8217;d take a closer look, though these are close together whereas compared to the D&#8217;s, not so close

If there was coffee, assuming morning coffee, it was probably daylight when it was made, say 6 am to 8am, can&#8217;t say if their routine was to go to bed early or late, my 82 yr old aunt never went to bed before midnight, and was usually up by this time

That means the perps came in morning hours to commit this most gruesome and sinister deed, hoping no one called, hoping no one drove up, hoping no one saw them in the daylight coming and going with bodies

The man on the lawn is a dangling modifier, he&#8217;s confusing, ok so he&#8217;s a lookout to make sure no one drives up or to atleast warn the one inside if someone does come up in the driveway or on the lakeside

He has to be sure to not be noticed, why the hell did he let himself be noticed, ugh&#8230;.

So daytime, people are up and moving and may hear screams, clearly no one heard if there were any or if they could hear them,

Wait, didn&#8217;t&#8217; someone say they heard loud talking from the D&#8217;s house? Did I read that ?

So they&#8217;d have to knock her out or kill her, then haul her down to the empty lot in a waiting pontoon and hope the cove neighbor didn&#8217;t&#8217; see them, that would look suspicious in a cove coming out of a wooded lot with something heavy, if they lead her down with tape on her mouth, well, that would look suspicious too right?

SO, maybe the guy on the lawn was out there all day, in and out, watching out because they were hanging around until nightfall to take her off, no, I&#8217;d think too risky to be there too long

SO WHEN and HOW did they haul her in the daytime because I&#8217;d think they&#8217;d be ready to hightail it out of there as soon as they were finished, HOWEVER, if they had to hang around and clean, or maybe there was nothing to clean, so hang around and twiddle your thumbs til 9 pm? IDTS

What was left of Mr D was left in the garage, blood and all

Mrs D wasn&#8217;t there, they didn&#8217;t kill her inside or maybe even not there as others have suggested, she was hauled away and killed elsewhere, if any blood, did they use luminol or something to look for more blood inside the house or in driveway or yard outside? I don&#8217;t know, surely they must&#8217;ve

How did they arrive daytime and how did they leave with her in tow, unnoticed

Possibly the car, why his body was moved a few feet, they knocked him out or killed him in the garage right after they hauled her away alive, maybe voices heard by the neighbors 2 doors down was from inside the garage, the garage door is not very solid as being inside the home, screaming and panic yelling would be Loud voices from that distance, and I'm sure there was yelling if they weren't just simply ambushed

Put her in the car, mouth taped and/or knocked out cold, car has GW sticker or whatever so unsuspected, they haul her to remote boat location who then drives to the ramp somehwere probably lawrence shoals, not much traffic on the lake due to the early season, slide her out side door facing the shore, fishing rods sticking up out of the boat as if fishing, nothing noticed if anyone even passed by that is

This would mean 3 people, 2 took her off and dropped her at the boat, the other one brought the car back, the reason his body was moved a few feet, the GUY on the lawn stayed behind to finish the awful task to mr D and moved the body for the guy to repark the car in the garage and to come back for him

Still seems like a lot of running all over town, let me see how far Lawrence shoals is from the D's

10 miles, 22 minutes by car from the Dermonds house, see if this takes you to the directions I put in, hwy 16 as I've said before, long stretch of nothingness

http://www.bing.com/maps/default.as...BJTIwMzEwMjRfX19lXyZtb2RlPUQmcnRvcD0wfjB+MH4=


This makes sense if it happened by day, no one would suspect a thing seeing his or her car leave and come back in but it's risky too, except maybe they knew the cameras weren't working, again, had to work there and know the GW community well

What I REALLY WANT TO KNOW IS WAS THERE COFFEE MADE AND WAS HIS BOOK BY HIS CHAIR WHERE HE USUALLY READS OR SOMETHING. or did it all just seem to be that he was getting up due to unmade bed and pj's and the coffee comment was something that most people do and routine, SS probably does that, LOL

Going to sort of assume there was coffee since it was even mentioned

I still say SO EASY at night, but killer criminals are crazy, SO............they don't fit the norm anyway

and the decoy would be the derby party, no one was paying attention