GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #10

[MotherOcean]

Early on it was reported and we discussed here that SS said someone had come for something that the Dermonds did not have to give. Maybe that someone returned on Saturday afternoon because the Dermonds had not given it to him. It seems far-fetched but we don't know what the something was. If perp. really wanted it and was convinced the Dermonds did in fact have it, he may have come back to look for it. Or, multiple people could be involved and the one who came on Saturday afternoon was not the killer.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

On a recent afternoon, Putnam sheriff’s Detective Dave Henry was in Sills’ office.

Aside from Sills, Henry knows more about the Dermond case than anyone.

Henry is 62, a slim, deep-voiced, Vidalia-born career cop. Before joining Sills’ staff in 2012, he helped train police investigators in Iraq.

<snipped>

The Dermond case has all but consumed him.

&#8220;Seems like every free minute I&#8217;ve got, my mind is rehashing stuff, trying to think of things we may have missed or overlooked,&#8221; Henry said.

&#8220;I try to keep an open mind. I try to keep the blinders off, because I don&#8217;t want to get tunnel vision on any one person or any one theory. ... Everybody&#8217;s got their own theory on what happened -- and a lot of them are possible.&#8221;

Tips, meanwhile, have run the gamut.

None, of course, has panned out.

&#8220;Anything that is halfway sane is a very plausible theory,&#8221; Henry said, &#8220;at this point.&#8221;

[/B]


<snipped & BBM for focus - New details as mystery reigns in year-old Dermond lake murders
BY JOE KOVAC JR.
[email protected] 2, 2015
Read more here: http://www.macon.com/2015/05/02/3726718_new-details-as-mystery-reigns.html?rh=1#storylink=cpy
________________________

&#8220;A painter paints pictures on canvas. But musicians paint their pictures on silence.&#8221; Quote by Leopold Stokowski
______

"Guess sadistic predators paint their pictures of evil on darkness, unsolved crimes, and unanswered question. There must be darkness present for the light to shine through.. and you must enter the fire to extinguish the flames of evil"..

What does that mean, Halfway sane is a plausible theory, at this point? I'd consider the it all insane

Yes I rehash this in my mind time and again, can't imagine their thoughts....... it will drive the detectives insane

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Early on it was reported and we discussed here that SS said someone had come for something that the Dermonds did not have to give. Maybe that someone returned on Saturday afternoon because the Dermonds had not given it to him. It seems far-fetched but we don't know what the something was. If perp. really wanted it and was convinced the Dermonds did in fact have it, he may have come back to look for it. Or, multiple people could be involved and the one who came on Saturday afternoon was not the killer.

maybe he speculated that because it seems nothing was taken, but I was just trying to break down several scenarios on HOW and WHEN the perps came and went

I think somoene just wanted them dead, period. BUT i could change my mind, never thought the car scenario was plausible because it would be SO VERY EASE by NIGHT. Too much running around with daytime scenarios

But that fool on the lawn, he wasn't very inconspicuous I'd say and he was there for some reason and clearly involved in some way becuase he hasn't come forward but if what you say were to be true, then it could have all happened by night after all

BUT, the coffee, the unmade bed could be night or morning, he either retired earlier than she or she arose earlier than he

but was their bagels? coffee? toast? cereal? Bacon? We dont' know,

SS probably grabs coffee while getting dressed adn another on the way out and meets buds for breakfast at waffle house or something, so that's HIS morning routine,

IDK

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

SO they were hiding in broad daylight, it&#8217;s really easy to look at houses for sale on the lake and go back later and no one even notices a thing, it&#8217;s real easy to fish on the open river or coves and no one suspects a thing, I mean in the daylight hours, so because it&#8217;s normal around the lakes, people don&#8217;t even notice you, now if someone came up to a few houses around my sisters place that are 90% unvisited, I&#8217;d take a closer look, though these are close together whereas compared to the D&#8217;s, not so close

If there was coffee, assuming morning coffee, it was probably daylight when it was made, say 6 am to 8am, can&#8217;t say if their routine was to go to bed early or late, my 82 yr old aunt never went to bed before midnight, and was usually up by this time

That means the perps came in morning hours to commit this most gruesome and sinister deed, hoping no one called, hoping no one drove up, hoping no one saw them in the daylight coming and going with bodies

The man on the lawn is a dangling modifier, he&#8217;s confusing, ok so he&#8217;s a lookout to make sure no one drives up or to atleast warn the one inside if someone does come up in the driveway or on the lakeside

He has to be sure to not be noticed, why the hell did he let himself be noticed, ugh&#8230;.

So daytime, people are up and moving and may hear screams, clearly no one heard if there were any or if they could hear them,

Wait, didn&#8217;t&#8217; someone say they heard loud talking from the D&#8217;s house? Did I read that ?

So they&#8217;d have to knock her out or kill her, then haul her down to the empty lot in a waiting pontoon and hope the cove neighbor didn&#8217;t&#8217; see them, that would look suspicious in a cove coming out of a wooded lot with something heavy, if they lead her down with tape on her mouth, well, that would look suspicious too right?

SO, maybe the guy on the lawn was out there all day, in and out, watching out because they were hanging around until nightfall to take her off, no, I&#8217;d think too risky to be there too long

SO WHEN and HOW did they haul her in the daytime because I&#8217;d think they&#8217;d be ready to hightail it out of there as soon as they were finished, HOWEVER, if they had to hang around and clean, or maybe there was nothing to clean, so hang around and twiddle your thumbs til 9 pm? IDTS

What was left of Mr D was left in the garage, blood and all

Mrs D wasn&#8217;t there, they didn&#8217;t kill her inside or maybe even not there as others have suggested, she was hauled away and killed elsewhere, if any blood, did they use luminol or something to look for more blood inside the house or in driveway or yard outside? I don&#8217;t know, surely they must&#8217;ve

How did they arrive daytime and how did they leave with her in tow, unnoticed

Possibly the car, why his body was moved a few feet, they knocked him out or killed him in the garage right after they hauled her away alive, maybe voices heard by the neighbors 2 doors down was from inside the garage, the garage door is not very solid as being inside the home, screaming and panic yelling would be Loud voices from that distance, and I'm sure there was yelling if they weren't just simply ambushed

Put her in the car, mouth taped and/or knocked out cold, car has GW sticker or whatever so unsuspected, they haul her to remote boat location who then drives to the ramp somehwere probably lawrence shoals, not much traffic on the lake due to the early season, slide her out side door facing the shore, fishing rods sticking up out of the boat as if fishing, nothing noticed if anyone even passed by that is

This would mean 3 people, 2 took her off and dropped her at the boat, the other one brought the car back, the reason his body was moved a few feet, the GUY on the lawn stayed behind to finish the awful task to mr D and moved the body for the guy to repark the car in the garage and to come back for him

Still seems like a lot of running all over town, let me see how far Lawrence shoals is from the D's

10 miles, 22 minutes by car from the Dermonds house, see if this takes you to the directions I put in, hwy 16 as I've said before, long stretch of nothingness

http://www.bing.com/maps/default.as...BJTIwMzEwMjRfX19lXyZtb2RlPUQmcnRvcD0wfjB+MH4=


This makes sense if it happened by day, no one would suspect a thing seeing his or her car leave and come back in but it's risky too, except maybe they knew the cameras weren't working, again, had to work there and know the GW community well

What I REALLY WANT TO KNOW IS WAS THERE COFFEE MADE AND WAS HIS BOOK BY HIS CHAIR WHERE HE USUALLY READS OR SOMETHING. or did it all just seem to be that he was getting up due to unmade bed and pj's and the coffee comment was something that most people do and routine, SS probably does that, LOL

Going to sort of assume there was coffee since it was even mentioned

I still say SO EASY at night, but killer criminals are crazy, SO............they don't fit the norm anyway

and the decoy would be the derby party, no one was paying attention

Mr D had no other wounds as I recall, so the yelling may have been the "loud voices", he may have been trying to stop them from taking her off in panic but yelling could have only happened in the end, as before they may have been very cooperative with HOPE and FEAR

when it came time to take her away, the panic began and they probably hit them both at that point

Certainly had to be well planned with this scenario but it does sort of makes sense

By night there would have not been nearly as much planning

A COUPLE OF THINGS.....were her keys on the counter with her phone? Where were RD's keys?, in the bdrm? Did anyone see their car leave and return after the loud voices, (if that's correct). Who are the closest neighbors? People were afraid to talk but that's another good decoy, pretending your afraid to talk if you knew or were involved..................

 

[Foxfire]

Mr D had no other wounds as I recall, so the yelling may have been the "loud voices", he may have been trying to stop them from taking her off in panic but yelling could have only happened in the end, as before they may have been very cooperative with HOPE and FEAR

when it came time to take her away, the panic began and they probably hit them both at that point

Certainly had to be well planned with this scenario but it does sort of makes sense

By night there would have not been nearly as much planning

A COUPLE OF THINGS.....were her keys on the counter with her phone? Where were RD's keys?, in the bdrm? Did anyone see their car leave and return after the loud voices, (if that's correct). Who are the closest neighbors? People were afraid to talk but that's another good decoy, pretending your afraid to talk if you knew or were involved..................

<BBM for focus>

dancinunderthemoon, I thought I remembered in the initial days of the investigation an msm article stating that a landscaper working at a neighbor's house heard loud voices coming from the D's home. I researched it and couldn't find a linked article. I did find where it was discussed in websleuths' D thread #2, but the link for the comment must have been deleted by a moderator...

Wife of beheaded man died of blunt force trauma
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/05/18/missing-georgia-wife-beheaded-man/9255485/
<BBM>
Officials said that based on their investigation, they have been able to narrow the time-frame of Russell Dermond's murder to somewhere between 4:30 p.m., on Friday, May 2 — when the mail was delivered — to 4 p.m. on Saturday, May 3, when the couple did not show up for a party. There were no signs of forced entry or indications of a struggle in the home, authorities said.
<snipped - read more>
__________

Seems that I remember that the closest neighbors were out of the country<Turkey>. I believe they had a housesitter who was there, but did not see or hear anything..

Yep.. .

Relentless: Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills chases a killer - See more at: http://www.atlantamagazine.com/grea...d-sills-chases-a-killer/#sthash.o71v2wOm.dpuf
http://www.atlantamagazine.com/grea...-county-sheriff-howard-sills-chases-a-killer/

One of the couple's nearest neighbors, next to a vacant lakefront lot that has belonged to R.E.M. bassist Mike Mills since the 1990s, was out of the country in Turkey.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

<BBM for focus>

dancinunderthemoon, I thought I remembered in the initial days of the investigation an msm article stating that a landscaper working at a neighbor's house heard loud voices coming from the D's home. I researched it and couldn't find a linked article. I did find where it was discussed in websleuths' D thread #2, but the link for the comment must have been deleted by a moderator...

Wife of beheaded man died of blunt force trauma
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/05/18/missing-georgia-wife-beheaded-man/9255485/
<BBM>
Officials said that based on their investigation, they have been able to narrow the time-frame of Russell Dermond's murder to somewhere between 4:30 p.m., on Friday, May 2 &#8212; when the mail was delivered &#8212; to 4 p.m. on Saturday, May 3, when the couple did not show up for a party. There were no signs of forced entry or indications of a struggle in the home, authorities said.
<snipped - read more>

hmmm, thanks for looking for it though. Maybe the article itself was deleted from the media site. IDK but atleast I'm not thinking things up out of thin air if someone else also remembers it haha

Well, if that's true, IDK, the whole scenario could be daytime saturday and lawn maintenance dont' always start early at every location as they work all throughout the day at different locations

I just dont' think they could have easily gotten away by boat in the daytime from the Dermonds home that is but who knows!

thanks

 

[asac]

SO, maybe the guy on the lawn was out there all day, in and out, watching out because they were hanging around until nightfall to take her off, no, I’d think too risky to be there too long

SO WHEN and HOW did they haul her in the daytime because I’d think they’d be ready to hightail it out of there as soon as they were finished, HOWEVER, if they had to hang around and clean, or maybe there was nothing to clean, so hang around and twiddle your thumbs til 9 pm? IDTS

Have you read about the current Savopoulos case, Washington DC? The suspect/s appear to have stayed in the home with the victims for as long as 20 or so hours.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

just brainstorming, guess I tend to forget crazy people will do anything

so maybe they got there in the morning hours and left Sunday night

 

[Foxfire]

It would be interesting to know if the perp/s took Mrs D's wedding rings or any other jewelry of hers or Mr D's. Sheriff Sills, said that nothing was taken, but also said that that he is not beyond misleading the public.. Then later said that he is not misleading the public in this case<paraphrasing>.. If no jewelry or other valuables or personal items were taken, then it would be reasonable to conclude that Mr D's head was not taken as a souvenir, imo..

There are thousands of murders committed with firearms in the USA each year, yet decapitations of the murder victims are rare. To behead someone to conceal ballistics, or for other forensic reasons are even more rare, imo.. Beheading is a very personal crime, even postmortem, and has specific meaning, imo..

Imo, considering the time it took to decapitate Mr D, the perp/s were not up against the clock.. Imo, the horrific crime would have been documented by photos or video for reliving or other deviant reasons..
___________
http://www.rjlm.ro/doc/251-254medico-legalevaluationofdeathsduetodecapitation.pdf

Medico-legal Evaluation of Deaths Due to Decapitation

Abstract: Decapitation of bodies is a rare event in the civilian setting and is reported to account for approximately 0.1
% of medico-legal autopsies. Suicidal decapitation is a very rare method of self-destruction. In suicidal decapitation, the favored
method is the one involving trains. Other encountered methods are decapitation in suicidal hanging, vehicle-assisted ligature
suicide. Though being encountered rarely decapitation by guillotine was also reported. In this retrospective study, in order to
depict characteristic features of deaths with decapitation, we presented the findings of fatalities with decapitation over a 10-year
period in a medico-legal autopsy series in Istanbul, Turkey. A total of 36270 forensic autopsies were performed over the period
of the study and in 19 cases, the bodies were found to be decapitated (0.05 %). The age range of decapitated bodies was 18 to 71
years (average 39,1 years), with a male to female ratio of 13/6. There was only one case of suicide and the way used for suicide
was a mechanism like guillotine. In this case, a guillotine-like device designed by male victim had been used for deliberately
decapitating the body. The age of the suicide case was 41 years. There was no female suicide case. There were 13 deaths of
accidental origin. 6 vehicle crashes and 7 train-pedestrian accidents. The age range of individuals died in accidents was 26 to 68
years (average 36.8 years) with a male to female ratio of 11/2.

During the study period the number of the homicide cases with
decapitation was 5. The age range of homicide cases was 18 to 71 years (average, 45.2 years), with a male to female ratio of
¼. There were multiple traumas in other body parts of the bodies of homicide cases together with decapitation. In majority of
homicide cases, multiple stab wounds were detected. Decapitation level of vertebrae was at the level of 3-4 cervical vertebrae
in 9 cases and different levels at cervical region in other cases.

Throughout history, decapitation has been
used for execution for the most diverse
motives all over the world. Complete decapitation
without any further mutilation of the victim in homicides
is relatively rare [1].

<snipped & BBM - read more>
_________________

Death Due to Homicidal Decapitation &#8211; A Case Report
http://www.researchgate.net/profile...ase_Report/links/53f4e9fc0cf22be01c3ef691.pdf

Abstract
Decapitation deaths are relatively rare finding in suicidal, accidental and homicidal
deaths. In most of the cases, the manner of death is difficult to differentiate, particularly
in cases where essential investigative elements, like the victims head and the weapon of
offence, are unavailable. Detailed analysis of circumstantial evidence, type of injuries,
crime scene examination and meticulous autopsy are always essential to enable a correct
diagnosis. A case of complete decapitation connected to a suspected homicidal death is
presented where an offensive motive for mutilation was assumed.
<snipped>

 

[asac]

just brainstorming, guess I tend to forget crazy people will do anything

Yeah, crazy people are hard to figure out.

 

[Backwoods]

I don't think the bit about someone hearing voices from or around the house within the pertinent time frame was ever in MSM. It was passed along by a poster, I believe -- someone claiming to know, IIRC -- possibly (I'm not sure) the same poster who first said Russell was found in pajamas and a robe. We discussed it a good bit, back then -- but the original post finally was removed, I believed.

 

[watcher9]

just brainstorming, guess I tend to forget crazy people will do anything

so maybe they got there in the morning hours and left Sunday night

Thank you for posting your different scenarios. They are so well thought out.

I would think if someone stayed around until dark, they would have been throwing caution to the wind because anyone could have dropped by. How about missed calls where they were no longer answering the phone? That would help with the timeline unless they are like some people who just don't answer the phone when it rings. What about their answering machine? Were there any unreturned messages? Did anyone call to see if they were coming to the party or why they didn't make it? Did any of their children call to say hi?

From way back, I was thinking that the Dermonds were the only ones occupying that cove so a boat tied up to a dock would not even be noticed?

When a decapitation occurs at a murder scene, how often is the head taken away? I would think most times, it would just be next to the body.

 

[Foxfire]

Thank you for posting your different scenarios. They are so well thought out.

I would think if someone stayed around until dark, they would have been throwing caution to the wind because anyone could have dropped by. How about missed calls where they were no longer answering the phone? That would help with the timeline unless they are like some people who just don't answer the phone when it rings. What about their answering machine? Were there any unreturned messages? Did anyone call to see if they were coming to the party or why they didn't make it? Did any of their children call to say hi?

From way back, I was thinking that the Dermonds were the only ones occupying that cove so a boat tied up to a dock would not even be noticed?

When a decapitation occurs at a murder scene, how often is the head taken away? I would think most times, it would just be next to the body.

It is very fortunate that none of the Dermond's friends dropped by during the comission of this crime..

Seldom is the head taken away from the scene of a murder, almost nonexistent, watcher9. Imo, the taking of Mr D's head was preplanned and was not disposed of in Lake Oconee. I found this 1979 case of the decapitation of two women in TX, where their heads were taken.
Apr 10, 2012 - Thread: TX - Multiple Decapitated Victims, Houston, 1979 ... Horrific killings in 1979 left bodies headless ..
TX TX - Multiple Decapitated Victims, Houston, 1979 - Websleuths - http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?168487-TX-Multiple-Decapitated-Victims-Houston-1979 - Horrific killings in 1979 left bodies headless
By James Pinkerton | April 8, 2012
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-t...ings-in-1979-left-bodies-headless-3467505.php
___________________

Also T Bundy was known to take possession of his victims heads from time to time. It was reported that he displayed one on his fireplace mantle of his apartment. http://www.crimemuseum.org/crime-library/ted-bundy
Ted Bundy was described as a charming, articulate and intelligent man. These traits allowed Ted Bundy to get close to his victims. Bundy raped and/or murdered scores of women, strangling and mutilating his victims. He displayed their lopped off heads in his apartment and slept with their corpses until putrefaction made it unbearable..
_____________________

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Kemper
Also 6'9" 300# serial killer 'Big Ed' Kemper III; the CA Co-ed Killer, whose IQ was in the 140 range &#8211; <attributes that left his victims with little chance to overcome him>. He started his criminal life by murdering his grandparents when he was 15 years old. He later murdered his mother. Big Ed buried a severed head in his mother's garden facing upward toward his mother's bedroom. As was Bundy, Big Ed was a necrophile.. I'll let it go at that..
At age 15, Big Ed was found not guilty by reason of insanity of his first murders and was committed to the Atascadero State Hospital, where he befriended his psychologist and even became his assistant. He studied and mastered the psych evaluations, demonstrating to the psychologists that he was cured... he was then released into his mother's care and his juvenile records were expunged.
Big Ed soon reverted to his old ways, embarking on a murder spree that claimed the lives of six more Co-eds and ended with the savage murder of his overbearing mother..
___________________

A more recent case that we are all aware of is the Jessica Ridgeway abduction/murder/dismemberment in 2012..

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/11/...killer-tells-police-what-led-up-to-the-crime/
Austin Sigg sentenced to life in kidnap/murder of Jessica Ridgeway
By Jordan Steffen - The Denver Post - November 19, 2013
http://murderpedia.org/male.S/s/sigg-austin.htm

GOLDEN, CO &#8212; As Austin Sigg was sentenced on Tuesday to a life behind bars, a judge and prosecutor said Sigg himself offered the best word to describe what he had done to Jessica Ridgeway: evil.

"Evil is apparently real," said Jefferson County District Court Chief Judge Stephen Munsinger. "It was present in our community on Oct. 5, 2012. On that day, its name was Austin Sigg.
He described the nearly two hours Sigg kept Jessica in his bedroom, where he made her watch a movie while he cut her hair and laid out clothes for her to change into. When he tried to strangle Jessica with zip ties, the plastic cut into his hands and he later told police that he didn't "have enough leverage," Sargent said.

Sigg eventually strangled 10 year old Jessica with his bare hands for up to three minutes. When he saw Jessica twitching, Sigg filled a bathtub with scalding hot water and forced her face down into it.
Sargent said he did not want to detail how Sigg methodically dismembered Jessica. Sigg told police at the time that he was fulfilling a sexual fantasy.
During Tuesday's hearing, Sargent struggled to describe the crime.

"Perhaps 17 year old Austin Sigg's words are best," he said. Sigg told investigators: "There is no better word to describe what I have done than evil."
Jessica's disappearance on Oct. 5, 2012, set off a massive search effort that at one point included more than 1,000 people and 75 local, state and federal law enforcement agencies.

On Oct. 23, Mindy Sigg called police after her son confessed to her that he had kidnapped and killed Jessica. He told his mother he was a monster and needed to be punished.


CO - Jessica Ridgeway, *no discussion*: Timeline and Media thread - Websleuths
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-187312.html

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Yeah, crazy people are hard to figure out.

haha, yes, if I use a sane mind to try to understand it

Was thinking, again, since it appeared they had
*risen that Saturday morning and
* possibly the lawn maintenance crew heard loud voices from the D's direction Saturday,
* and the man on the lawn was seen saturday in the D's lakeside yard,
*the derby party was saturday, people busy not paying attention,
* no moon saturday

Well, it appears they were there all day Saturday. Using my logical mind it's hard to fathom that it didnt' occur throughout the night hours of friday evening, and end saturday before daylight

clearly no fear of being caught, the man on the lawn felt safe enough for some reason to be out there, or did someone identifying him even matter to him?

Does that make it look planned, the derby party and moon as decoys?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Thank you for posting your different scenarios. They are so well thought out.

I would think if someone stayed around until dark, they would have been throwing caution to the wind because anyone could have dropped by. How about missed calls where they were no longer answering the phone? That would help with the timeline unless they are like some people who just don't answer the phone when it rings. What about their answering machine? Were there any unreturned messages? Did anyone call to see if they were coming to the party or why they didn't make it? Did any of their children call to say hi?

From way back, I was thinking that the Dermonds were the only ones occupying that cove so a boat tied up to a dock would not even be noticed?

When a decapitation occurs at a murder scene, how often is the head taken away? I would think most times, it would just be next to the body.

thanks yes I had several days of free time on my hands, LOL,

they are are the only ones as you enter the cove and into the cove, that have a boat dock, across from them there is one more facing open water, you dont' need a boat dock to beach or dock a boat however, but thinking of people at the lake tend to sit on their docks, so no one back in the cove would be down on the water unless shoreline sitting which does occurr also, nothing much to look at though on the end of the cove

Yes lot 109 at the end of the cove has full time resident, this is connected adn across to the lot next to the Dermonds, I dont know how much they can see for the trees but at night it wouldn't matter at all, even if there were all full time residents

yeah too much weird stuff and coincidences making it easy for the perps

Certainly must be why SS says it's not random

That means someone wanted them dead?

 

[Vedder]

I don't think the perp(s) were there all day, only because the house was so neat.

 

[Foxfire]

Quote Originally Posted by asac View Post
Yeah, crazy people are hard to figure out.

haha, yes, if I use a sane mind to try to understand it

Was thinking, again, since it appeared they had
*risen that Saturday morning and
* possibly the lawn maintenance crew heard loud voices from the D's direction Saturday,
* and the man on the lawn was seen saturday in the D's lakeside yard,
*the derby party was saturday, people busy not paying attention,
* no moon saturday

Well, it appears they were there all day Saturday. Using my logical mind it's hard to fathom that it didnt' occur throughout the night hours of friday evening, and end saturday before daylight

clearly no fear of being caught, the man on the lawn felt safe enough for some reason to be out there, or did someone identifying him even matter to him?

Does that make it look planned, the derby party and moon as decoys?

<BBM for Focus>

Yes, the Dermond abduction/decapitation/murders does look planned, dancinunderthemoon. Carefully preplanned, calculated, deflective, creative, and meticulously executed by forensic and investigative aware organized professionals; paramilitary trained soldiers/assassins on a perpetual mission of revenge and retribution, imo.. Crazy? Crazy like a Fox maybe..

The Dermond murders were so well planned and executed that after over a year's time, there is not even a clear motive in sight. I am beginning to doubt the accuracy of the old saying, 'There is no such thing as the perfect crime'..
Then I remember that there is no such thing as the perfect crime, only imperfect investigations..
____________________

Since the days of London's "Jack the Ripper," the gruesome acts of serial killers have instilled fear &#8212; and a morbid curiosity &#8212; in the general public. The victims, murdered in horrendous fashion, are often society's most innocent and vulnerable.
But these seemingly random acts of violence often follow some deliberate paths into which the innocent have unwittingly wandered.

Retired FBI agent Gregg O. McCrary spent a good part of his career climbing inside the minds of these remorseless killers to find out the method to their madness. He say's it's all about control.

"If there is any one common motive among serial killers, it's playing God, having the power over life and death of another individual," says McCrary. "It's a very intoxicating experience."

Constructing a profile of an unknown assailant begins with a careful analysis of the elements, including crime scene components, autopsy data and victim selection.

It is not uncommon for a killer's method to evolve, says McCrary. "Crime is dynamic and (an) offender may change...and become more comfortable over time," making it more difficult for authorities to apprehend the suspect, he says.

"They run the gamut of intelligence," adds McCrary. "The bright, adaptive ones are the ones that are most difficult to capture."

He is quick to point out that while many serial killers are mentally disturbed, few suffer from insanity. "The reality is they are not crazy, they are not insane in the terms of being legally insane," says McCrary. "They understand very well that what they are doing is wrong, but they do it anyway and they try very hard to get away with it."

<Snipped & BBM>
Former FBI Agent Uncovers The Method Behind Murder Madness
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/inside-a-killers-mind/

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

It is very fortunate that none of the Dermond's friends dropped by during the comission of this crime..

Seldom is the head taken away from the scene of a murder, almost nonexistent, watcher9. Imo, the taking of Mr D's head was preplanned and was not disposed of in Lake Oconee. I found this 1979 case of the decapitation of two women in TX, where their heads were taken.
Apr 10, 2012 - Thread: TX - Multiple Decapitated Victims, Houston, 1979 ... Horrific killings in 1979 left bodies headless ..
TX TX - Multiple Decapitated Victims, Houston, 1979 - Websleuths - http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?168487-TX-Multiple-Decapitated-Victims-Houston-1979 - Horrific killings in 1979 left bodies headless
By James Pinkerton | April 8, 2012
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-t...ings-in-1979-left-bodies-headless-3467505.php
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Also T Bundy was known to take possession of his victims heads from time to time. It was reported that he displayed one on his fireplace mantle of his apartment. http://www.crimemuseum.org/crime-library/ted-bundy
Ted Bundy was described as a charming, articulate and intelligent man. These traits allowed Ted Bundy to get close to his victims. Bundy raped and/or murdered scores of women, strangling and mutilating his victims. He displayed their lopped off heads in his apartment and slept with their corpses until putrefaction made it unbearable..
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Kemper
Also 6'9" 300# serial killer 'Big Ed' Kemper III; the CA Co-ed Killer, whose IQ was in the 140 range &#8211; <attributes that left his victims with little chance to overcome him>. He started his criminal life by murdering his grandparents when he was 15 years old. He later murdered his mother. Big Ed buried a severed head in his mother's garden facing upward toward his mother's bedroom. As was Bundy, Big Ed was a necrophile.. I'll let it go at that..
At age 15, Big Ed was found not guilty by reason of insanity of his first murders and was committed to the Atascadero State Hospital, where he befriended his psychologist and even became his assistant. He studied and mastered the psych evaluations, demonstrating to the psychologists that he was cured... he was then released into his mother's care and his juvenile records were expunged.
Big Ed soon reverted to his old ways, embarking on a murder spree that claimed the lives of six more Co-eds and ended with the savage murder of his overbearing mother..
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A more recent case that we are all aware of is the Jessica Ridgeway abduction/murder/dismemberment in 2012..

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/11/...killer-tells-police-what-led-up-to-the-crime/
Austin Sigg sentenced to life in kidnap/murder of Jessica Ridgeway
By Jordan Steffen - The Denver Post - November 19, 2013
http://murderpedia.org/male.S/s/sigg-austin.htm

GOLDEN, CO &#8212; As Austin Sigg was sentenced on Tuesday to a life behind bars, a judge and prosecutor said Sigg himself offered the best word to describe what he had done to Jessica Ridgeway: evil.

"Evil is apparently real," said Jefferson County District Court Chief Judge Stephen Munsinger. "It was present in our community on Oct. 5, 2012. On that day, its name was Austin Sigg.
He described the nearly two hours Sigg kept Jessica in his bedroom, where he made her watch a movie while he cut her hair and laid out clothes for her to change into. When he tried to strangle Jessica with zip ties, the plastic cut into his hands and he later told police that he didn't "have enough leverage," Sargent said.

Sigg eventually strangled 10 year old Jessica with his bare hands for up to three minutes. When he saw Jessica twitching, Sigg filled a bathtub with scalding hot water and forced her face down into it.
Sargent said he did not want to detail how Sigg methodically dismembered Jessica. Sigg told police at the time that he was fulfilling a sexual fantasy.
During Tuesday's hearing, Sargent struggled to describe the crime.

"Perhaps 17 year old Austin Sigg's words are best," he said. Sigg told investigators: "There is no better word to describe what I have done than evil."
Jessica's disappearance on Oct. 5, 2012, set off a massive search effort that at one point included more than 1,000 people and 75 local, state and federal law enforcement agencies.

On Oct. 23, Mindy Sigg called police after her son confessed to her that he had kidnapped and killed Jessica. He told his mother he was a monster and needed to be punished.


CO - Jessica Ridgeway, *no discussion*: Timeline and Media thread - Websleuths
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-187312.html

Do we think these perps knew who was on the derby party rsvp list?

We dont' know who the perps are, so they could be anyone, near or far

Seems like the derby party was the decoy still, IMO, the reason no one stopped by, the perps felt or knew that everyone would be preoccupied, saturday morning however, they couldn't be sure

They had to know there was no family that would walk in on them, someone that might have a key or be overly persistent in reaching the D's

bound and tied, they couldn't answer the door or make a noise but how long were they bound and tied, if they ever were for more than the time needed to shut someone up and do what you came for

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I don't think the perp(s) were there all day, only because the house was so neat.

my thoughts too vedder

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I don't think the perp(s) were there all day, only because the house was so neat.

So more thoughts takes us right back to square one, if we consider they arrived by morning and also left during daylight

Did they take her by car or boat?
How did they get into RP/GW?

we know the cameras weren't operating at the entrance

Even if they knew this, and this was a preplanned scenario, not some random act by getting in with the D's cars
they would have been questioned at the gate

UNLESS, they were in a maintenance truck of some sort

or some kind of police attire or badge

I suppose it would really confuse the investigation further if they came and went by car yet dumped her in the lake, it naturally gives the appearances that someone arrived and/or left by boat

BUT If they had not intended for her to be discovered, and had not been, then no one would ever have suspected a boat at all, it would just appear as a kidnapping and you assume a car was used

SHe may have been discovered come October 2015 if she hadn't already been, when the lake will be lowered, assuming she was close to shore within 100ft orin shallow water beyond that

And did the perps know about the lake drawdown?


I think she was not dumped AT the dam because she would have been discovered due to water movement and crew at the dam (whoever or however many work there IDK but the station is there

So with block and tree stumps the intent was for her never to be found

I can't imagine more confusion than there is already......... had she not been found