GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #11

[dancinunderthemoon]

This is what I've been saying, this was from someone over at ******************

QUOTE: This case is one of those truly intriguing ones, where things just do not add up, any way you look at them, and questions just lead to more questions and little else.

-- Why would anyone decapitate a man, take his head away but leave his body in plain view -- only to then go to truly extraordinary lengths to take his wife's battered body five miles down the river and hide it in the water, using concrete blocks?

The first thing to my mind is, "Looks like a mob hit!" - they were from NJ after all... Only, I have studied mob crimes for quite some time, and this just doesn't fit. Note, I used the words, "looks like".

So my next question is, "Was this staged to resemble a mob hit?" Concrete blocks? Sleeping with the fishes? Really? Had somebody seen one too many Godfather movies and figured LE would automatically look at the NJ/mafia connection?

Why not sink two bodies? If it was staged, they'd need one body there to show a murder had been done. Cutting off the head would cause instant confusion - after all, what kind of person would do such a thing? Hiding Shirley's body caused police to believe she'd been abducted - more confusion - but then she shows up in the lake, which is just as confusing. If not more so.

Staging is always about masking something - motive, method, evidence.. sometimes to gain time for a getaway.. or an alibi... sometimes to set up a wild goose chase.. Sadly, it seems to work, when you look at some of the more bizarre cold cases around.

-- That said, the killer may have been deeply ill, and/or held festering hatred for the couple. A la Edmund Kemper and the nasty things he did to his poor old mum. But people like that really do not just drop out of the family woodwork - they have a history, hints of oddness going back years, though this might only be apparent to a few people. Could somebody that full of rage and/or sick really commit such an elaborate crime, and leave no clues behind them?

Maybe. Maybe not. END QUOTE

 

[fred&edna]

because they were looking to kill them........robbers go when they know no one is home, that rules out saturday or friday evening, the family would likely be home, kids home from school, had they not known who lived there but just a secluded house BUT..., had it been thursday or friday morning....yet another story...they could have gone in and got what they wanted.......but remember, rolex and cash was laying around in the open.....AND they were there on saturday when the banks are closed or only open til noon, this also rules out extortion IMO, youd think it would be a weekday if they were there to rob them, ATM's only let you get $300 at the time, not enough worth cutting heads and hauling someone off IMO

I just really dont think it was someone angry with him, it had to be an expert, so he either knew an expert killer or someone hired one to kill them.....

Seriously, how many people are going to leave the party to drive over and check on them? Well you can't KNOW this for certain, but no one did apparently.....if they were locked up in the house and no noe could get in, who's to know? cna't see if the cars are gone.......but the friends who found them called and never even went over until tuesday and they are only 2 miles away or less according to reports........in my mind....no one is going to have ANY IDEA....that someone is being murdered...........the killers just dont answer the door or phone and if the D's are dead or gagged and tied up, who's going to know something is wrong.....

Also, somehow the killers must've known about the neighbors being gone, that they had no plans to catch a ride with someone to the derby party and that all their friends would be preoccupied with the party.....WHO WOULD know this information? the Dermonds? The daughter? Another neighbor?

Or else it was all just random.............

whatever is going on, its got us all playing theory tag......probalby not even looking in the right direction due to all the confusion in this case

IDK, just my opinions

BBM... I'm right there, brain churning... I'm sure I'll be sidelined with a cramp soon! Poor us... we keep trying.

(Frustration slump)

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I like that !! You would think that if the lampshade was off kilter....as the article said then there would more than likely be OTHER THINGS off kilter in the house if there had been a scuffle, why not a coffee table, or vase, why the lampshade that is probalby off in the corner anyway.......

btw BOOTS, I found that article, forgotten I'd even seen it until i saw it in print again....http://www.atlantamagazine.com/grea...-county-sheriff-howard-sills-chases-a-killer/

Sills was struck by the pristine condition of the house. A horror scene it was not. Aside from the headless body in the garage, and save for an unmade bed and an off-kilter lampshade in the living room, it was showroom-perfect. The lampshade caught Sills’s eye only because everything else was so neat.

'Just a quick thought about the tilted lampshade...

I've always believed the shade was titled by Mrs Dermond in order to better see the crossword puzzle. IIRC She was scheduled to have cataract surgery the following week and Mr Dermond had picked up her pre-surgery prescription eye drops and they were on the kitchen counter.

IMO.... It's possible Mrs Dermond always sat in a particular chair to do the crossword puzzle, read, etc AND, at least one of the killers knew this - in their mind the lampshade wasn't askew - it was in it's "typical" place. Thus, they didn't even think to "right it" back to it's proper position (as it was already in it's usual place).

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

haha, i live and breathe this case atleast 4 times a week since it happened, had a little forced break last year with some family emergencies but yeah cramps here too!

BBM... I'm right there, brain churning... I'm sure I'll be sidelined with a cramp soon! Poor us... we keep trying.

(Frustration slump)

 

[fred&edna]

maybe the D's tipped teh lampshade, ive only heard of the tipped lampshade in the youtube video, can't remember her name........never saw that in writing, is that true?

I think you are right about #1....These experts KNEW she would rise in 10 days due to the release of gases...........and the family didnt have to get a court order death certificate on her either

#2 could be true OR, it was ALSO MEANT to confuse the investigation.....the experts say this was carefully planned and executed............they knew each step of what they were doing

How do we know those prints are from the killers, SS SAID they have prints and dusted the house thoroughly til it was painted in fingerprint dust practically.....what does that tell us??

fingerprints were hard to find? that the ones the kept getting were family? IDK.....did they get any of the killer? No one knows yet, he just said they got all sorts of dna and fingerprints....did he say this for a reason? to make the community think he was on to smoething? Or did SS say this without clarity of WHOSE prints and dna he retrieved...he did say he'd lie or whatever it took to solve this case.....

and ...DId SS say recently if he knew he had unknown fingerprints or fibers? Ive not heard yet, would be interesting to know more about this

BBM

I think hockeyguy33 brought up this question a few pages back... why didn't SS elaborate (or even mention) the fingerprints, fibers in the podcast?? I don't know if SS has ever specifically said "unknown" fingerprints... I don't know that he's ever mentioned this particular evidence since the first report.


ETA" I found hockeyguy33's post on page 8

I know both of them check out this thread so i'd really like to hear them explain the finger prints and fibers they found. I personally think PH and SS did this podcast to draw suspicion from the family who I am also sure checks out this thread. SS says he has the evidence but needs a witness. This tells me he knows who did it but the evidence can be contested because that person has been in the house before probably many times. There's no way the finger prints didn't come up In the system. Polygraphs can be beaten easily this whole podcast was a sham designed to keep us off track just like SS has done since day 1. Most of the podcast was building up SS as some super sleuth which he has yet to prove. Retire and lets get this case solved by a real detective

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-County-2-May-2014-11&p=13507774#post13507774

 

[Bootsctr]

'Just a quick thought about the tilted lampshade...

I've always believed the shade was titled by Mrs Dermond in order to better see the crossword puzzle. IIRC She was scheduled to have cataract surgery the following week and Mr Dermond had picked up her pre-surgery prescription eye drops and they were on the kitchen counter.

IMO.... It's possible Mrs Dermond always sat in a particular chair to do the crossword puzzle, read, etc AND, at least one of the killers knew this - in their mind the lampshade wasn't askew - it was in it's "typical" place. Thus, they didn't even think to "right it" back to it's proper position (as it was already in it's usual place).


ETA: I just realized I linked to the wrong post Can y'all pretend this was Boots' post #213, please.

Oh my gosh! That makes perfect sense about the lamp shade!! Yep, yep, yep! He wouldn't have straightened it if that is how he found it. Gosh! I was watching a 48 Hour Special about Charles Manson and they talked about how Charlie taught his gang about a game he played called "Creepy Crawly." It was what he did robbing people's houses and yeah that's the kind of vibe I get when SS describes the D's home. Somebody played "Creepy Crawly" before they murdered the D's except they didn't rob them. I wonder if he spent the night there after he killed them????

I start getting reflux pretty bad when I get really involved in a case and this one is definitely giving me indigestion!!

 

[watcher9]

The camera at the gate was broken (maybe by a lightning storm) but I can't remember there being any guard at the gate.
I thought we had discussion about how the video from the camera was monitored. It's been a long time though since this broke three years ago so my memory may be fuzzy.

P.S. I like the new reason for the tilted lampshade. Seems like the children would know that if SS had bothered to ask them.

 

[Bootsctr]

I like that !! You would think that if the lampshade was off kilter....as the article said then there would more than likely be OTHER THINGS off kilter in the house if there had been a scuffle, why not a coffee table, or vase, why the lampshade that is probalby off in the corner anyway.......

btw BOOTS, I found that article, forgotten I'd even seen it until i saw it in print again....http://www.atlantamagazine.com/grea...-county-sheriff-howard-sills-chases-a-killer/

Sills was struck by the pristine condition of the house. A horror scene it was not. Aside from the headless body in the garage, and save for an unmade bed and an off-kilter lampshade in the living room, it was showroom-perfect. The lampshade caught Sills’s eye only because everything else was so neat.

Thank you! That is an excellent article. I have tried to google to find that particular article with no luck recently. I do admit when I look at the picture of SS and his buddies posing with I start thinking Mafioso!!!

Great question - why not put both of them in the water to sleep with the fishes?? Makes sense Mr. D was staged for proof.

Yikes! Edmund Kemper would sit and drink beer with his LE buddies!!! They never suspected "Big Ed". It had to be someone like EK. Just crazy enough to act normal after murdering someone!!!

Off to take a Prilosec!

 

[Bootsctr]

The camera at the gate was broken (maybe by a lightning storm) but I can't remember there being any guard at the gate.
I thought we had discussion about how the video from the camera was monitored. It's been a long time though since this broke three years ago so my memory may be fuzzy.

You're correct! The cameras were knocked out by the severe storm that passed through a week prior to the murders, I believe.

I think the guards stayed mostly in the guard shack. Probably lots of waving through until the murders. Gosh it could be one of the neighbors crazy kids? Whomever it was knew they had time, plenty of time to accomplish these murders.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

The neighbor had phoned them several times. Nothing. So he’d gone over to check. The door was unlocked. -

See more at: http://www.atlantamagazine.com/grea...d-sills-chases-a-killer/#sthash.hlTfZz5d.dpuf

I've never put much thought into the door benig unlocked until just now..........apparently the killers layed towels around Mr D's bloody body to prevent the blood from running under the garage door into the driveway, which could clearly be seen by someone who drives up to the house..............why? So no one would find out too soon, clearly they knew someone would find out eventually

IIRC, the kitchen door was unlocked, its the way the derby friends gained entry and then met SS and crew on the front porch .....BUT....the kitchen door is on the lakeside upper porch, which can also be easily accessed from the ground level screened porch by the garage doors and driveway leading around to the upper deck lakeside and since the house is on a sloped lot the house looks one level from the driveway.....but most likely only someone VERY familiar with the Dermonds would actually GO INSIDE teh screened porch, I always feel like im being invasive if I were to enter soeones screneened porchthe front door leads into a foyer and LR IIRC but not the kitchen.....most people who came by would knock on the front door, acquaintences, delivery persons

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

posted before i was ready!! SO in regards to the back door being unlocked,,, yet they didnt want the blood going out the garage door.....did they WANT someone to find them but not right away? knowing that likely only CLOSE friends would come looking and would likely snoop around to get in.. in a few days, giving them the 48 hr window of opportunity . yet not wanting someone to see the blood on sunday under the garage if they came by when the D's didnt show up for church, which they normally attended, so they left the door in the back unlocked where you have to go either up stairs from the back yard/lakeside or thru the screened porch to get to the back, both kind of something a stranger wouldnt do...........

just some thoughts that fall in line with the killers "confusing the investigation " to buy time

The neighbor had phoned them several times. Nothing. So he’d gone over to check. The door was unlocked. -

See more at: http://www.atlantamagazine.com/grea...d-sills-chases-a-killer/#sthash.hlTfZz5d.dpuf

I've never put much thought into the door benig unlocked until just now..........apparently the killers layed towels around Mr D's bloody body to prevent the blood from running under the garage door into the driveway, which could clearly be seen by someone who drives up to the house..............why? So no one would find out too soon, clearly they knew someone would find out eventually

IIRC, the kitchen door was unlocked, its the way the derby friends gained entry and then met SS and crew on the front porch .....BUT....the kitchen door is on the lakeside upper porch, which can also be easily accessed from the ground level screened porch by the garage doors and driveway leading around to the upper deck lakeside and since the house is on a sloped lot the house looks one level from the driveway.....but most likely only someone VERY familiar with the Dermonds would actually GO INSIDE teh screened porch, I always feel like im being invasive if I were to enter soeones screneened porchthe front door leads into a foyer and LR IIRC but not the kitchen.....most people who came by would knock on the front door, acquaintences, delivery persons

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I know he should know something about the prints by now, did they compare the family and friends prints to the ones they found? What was the majority of the prints? Like one article or the podcast said, they had so many dustings in that house it was painted with fingerprint powder....sounds like they were looking hard for an odd print otherwise they're pulling russell and shirley's prints all day long.............Were there any odd ones that wouldnt be family ? yeah nothing has been said further about the forensics or dna.....

he's keeping many secrets because SS is s supersleuth who is going to solve this ALL on his own! I hope he does but most people need help unless they're superman

Im sure there are things teh public doenst need to know or that he might need to keep secret in order to have something ONLY the killers would know but they aren't going to slip up, the hit man is GONE..............nothing to tie the family to it.....YET anyway....if they are still investigating I'd like to know who and if he's interviewed ANYONE else since 2014/15

BBM

I think hockeyguy33 brought up this question a few pages back... why didn't SS elaborate (or even mention) the fingerprints, fibers in the podcast?? I don't know if SS has ever specifically said "unknown" fingerprints... I don't know that he's ever mentioned this particular evidence since the first report.


ETA" I found hockeyguy33's post on page 8

I know both of them check out this thread so i'd really like to hear them explain the finger prints and fibers they found. I personally think PH and SS did this podcast to draw suspicion from the family who I am also sure checks out this thread. SS says he has the evidence but needs a witness. This tells me he knows who did it but the evidence can be contested because that person has been in the house before probably many times. There's no way the finger prints didn't come up In the system. Polygraphs can be beaten easily this whole podcast was a sham designed to keep us off track just like SS has done since day 1. Most of the podcast was building up SS as some super sleuth which he has yet to prove. Retire and lets get this case solved by a real detective

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-County-2-May-2014-11&p=13507774#post13507774

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

and Hockey guy has made some VERY good points!

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

EXACTLY! or someone LONG GONE who can't be foudn or questioned..........but the people in volved in this can most likely pass a polygraph, anyone that could DO this or be INVOLVED in this is psychopathic enough to believe their own lies! Therefore, breathing easily and nothing skips a beat............and if those LE were fooled, any LE could be fooled

Thank you! That is an excellent article. I have tried to google to find that particular article with no luck recently. I do admit when I look at the picture of SS and his buddies posing with I start thinking Mafioso!!!

Great question - why not put both of them in the water to sleep with the fishes?? Makes sense Mr. D was staged for proof.

Yikes! Edmund Kemper would sit and drink beer with his LE buddies!!! They never suspected "Big Ed". It had to be someone like EK. Just crazy enough to act normal after murdering someone!!!

Off to take a Prilosec!

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Good to see this forum alive!

 

[auburnmomof2]

I'm wondering who came and kept the house clean, dust free etc. I don't know about y'all but I think it's kind of strange for anyone's home to be in such pristine condition. Any time I've been in a home that feels homey, it's not perfect and dust free. That point has always made me view them a little differently. Maybe I'm way off but I just don't invision a friendly loving couple with no enemies. I feel kind of bad for saying that but I wanted to see what y'all thought. I think the killer is long gone and has been since day one. I don't think they'll kill again, I think it was a one time well planned out retribution for feeling wronged by the couple

 

[Deleted member 162919]

Everyone says the house is spotless and the had no help in keeping it clean. This is a 3k sq ft house and they were in their late 80's so simple math says SS is not telling us the truth either about the house being clean or they did have help around the house

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I replied to this earlier, i guess it didnt go thru

but like hockeyguy said, they "allegedly" had no help in keeping the home cleaned..this I think came from one of the sons, probably Keith, no one else is speaking out.......Idk, some people are very anal about neatness, on the other hand, they wern't spring chickens either so not an easy feat with that big a house.........however. I do wonder if maybe the house was "clean" becuase it was clutter free..no hobbies or bunches of books or tapes etc.....neat desk......maybe they just didnt have alot of stuff all over the house.....this would explain a showplace.......no company much so not a lot to clean other than after themselves but I have to say, it's hard keeping up with 2 people but I dont know what it's like not to have a project going all the time which causes you to fall behind in other things............so unless you have NOTHING going on but watching tv, eating adn sleeping at home, not a lot to keep up with..

I did notices, their lawn was not a manicured as I'd have expected being in GW so I dont think they had a lawn man................well except the infamous one

I'm wondering who came and kept the house clean, dust free etc. I don't know about y'all but I think it's kind of strange for anyone's home to be in such pristine condition. Any time I've been in a home that feels homey, it's not perfect and dust free. That point has always made me view them a little differently. Maybe I'm way off but I just don't invision a friendly loving couple with no enemies. I feel kind of bad for saying that but I wanted to see what y'all thought. I think the killer is long gone and has been since day one. I don't think they'll kill again, I think it was a one time well planned out retribution for feeling wronged by the couple

 

[Bootsctr]

Sorry watcher9. orrecting the information about the cameras, this article states the camera had been out an entire month:

In the minutes after Russ Dermond’s body was found, Sills sent a deputy to fetch security-camera surveillance footage from a guard shack at the entrance to the neighborhood. The deputy came back with bad news. About a month earlier, a storm had knocked out power, and the security camera, unknown to anyone, had stopped recording. Sills cursed his luck.

http://www.atlantamagazine.com/grea...-county-sheriff-howard-sills-chases-a-killer/

Sounds like there was only one camera and if it had not been working for a month then it was not being monitored at all. I guess it was up to the individual homeowners to have their own security cameras to monitor their property.

A shame there was not a security camera monitoring the D's dock.

 

[Bootsctr]

More about the security camera footage:

Sills said he doesn’t believe the killers were professionals and thinks the Dermonds were at least “minimally acquainted” with their assailants. Both the sheriff and FBI profilers who have examined the case believe there are at least two people involved.

Video footage from surveillance cameras on and off Lake Oconee captured between May 2 and 3 — when the slayings occurred — has been sent to the FBI for further examination.

http://www.ajc.com/news/local-govt-...derly-eatonton-couple/4jd1iAie2KJDgZNQ8lmbxO/