GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #11

[Bootsctr]

Maybe I'm just confusing myself by reading through the older threads but was Foxfire on the right track with his post below? (Was he thinking the perps possibly entered the Dermond property from another dock? Does this thought coincide with the search of the wooded property across the street?? (2nd link)) What was it that lead LE to search the wooded area??


"Noticed that one of the security cameras of the Dermond's neighbor was focused on the D's dock, yet this is not the critical area of concern. The camera footage of the critical area of concern was sent to the FBI for tweeking..
Interesting.....the critical area of focus must be the undeveloped wooded property searched by LE a week ago adjacent to the Dermond's home.. It would be reasonable to conclude that LE has info indicating that the perp/s did not enter the Dermond's property via their dock..imo"

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...m-County-2-May-2014-4&p=10562700#post10562700


"Deputies and officers from seven local agencies, along with the FBI, on Wednesday searched about six acres of vacant land across the street from the Dermond home, but turned up nothing.

https://patch.com/georgia/cartersvi...t-continues-for-suspect-in-husbands-beheading

Bumping fred&edna's post regarding the perp entering from another dock.

To me it would make sense that this would be one way to enter the Dermond's property without actually docking a boat at the D's dock and you would have much more cover entering via the neighbor's dock (the one w/o a house, just a dock). I think a boat at the D's dock would have drawn some attention much like a strange car parked in someone's driveway. I figure the neighbors were all aware that RD had sold their boat months before and it would be highly suspicious to see a boat there. People wouldn't normally come by boat to visit would they?

And if SD was hit as they made her go to the boat they wouldn't have to worry about being seen with the trees and other flora that would be on an unimproved lake lot. No hits by the cadaver dogs that we know of. You would think they would have alerted to any blood on the trail that was taken by the killers?? Maybe there wasn't much blood involved with hitting her on the head. I don't know. The New York lady that was killed by the fire extinguisher does remind me of the D's case.

I wish we could see SS's PowerPoint presentation!

 

[watcher9]

Hey Watcher9, yes I posted that very map several times, i post so much I guess people quit listening LOL....sorry about that..........but looking at that map, its NOT hard to find the Dermonds home, the house before the dermonds and the one across from them dont' have docks IN the cover, the Dermonds is the only one on Carolyn with a dock that is IN the cover....looks like MAYBE the one on Westview has a dock hidden in the trees, if you zoom in, in shallow waters of the cove end........just think it wouldnt be hard to find the Dermonds house if you were looking for it and at your maps and had a pic of the home before hand...........also boating straight down river from 44....were you to launch there......you run right into this island sts, before you have make a turn on the big bend... I have simply looked down that river many times and seen what looked like the westview/carolyn drive peninsula, and compared it to maps.........so certainly someone who knew the area could find it easily but quite possibly someone who is semi familiar with the waters, given the address, google maps and gps but I could be wrong, ive never done it.but certainly once you enter the cove it should not be difficult....it's not like other large coves with 12 houses or more, once you enter

I thought I remembered seeing that map before. Now, I know why. LOL

On the assumption that they were targeting the house, you may be right.
What if they were just looking for an empty looking house to gain entry into?

 

[watcher9]

Hmm, so WHO saw the man on the lawn? Which house? Looks like maybe the last one in cove on westview ? the house with dock at tip of peninsula is on the culdesac basically..........
https://www.google.com/maps/place/1...b1df5a5de07016fc!8m2!3d33.398046!4d-83.236468

http://www.atlantamagazine.com/grea...-county-sheriff-howard-sills-chases-a-killer/
One of the couple’s nearest neighbors, next to a vacant lakefront lot that has belonged to R.E.M. bassist Mike Mills since the 1990s, was out of the country in Turkey. Her house sitter hadn’t seen anything unusual. Nor had residents in another cul-de-sac across the cove.

Seems like there was speculation in the early threads that whomever spotted the man in the front yard may have been someone who was driving by. Maybe a news carrier or mailman?
I am looking at the front yard as being the road side and the back yard as the lakefront side. There was a lot of discussion on which side was which back then too!

 

[Bootsctr]

Seems like there was speculation in the early threads that whomever spotted the man in the front yard may have been someone who was driving by. Maybe a news carrier or mailman?
I am looking at the front yard as being the road side and the back yard as the lakefront side. There was a lot of discussion on which side was which back then too!

The mailman would make sense as the person who saw the man on the property. I wonder what time the Saturday mail ran? He would have had a perfect view of the garage and the walk to the front door.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

any article ive seen of late only stated "man on the lawn"....below with link

Anohther point is that in the podcast PH and SS were discussing how teh witness saw the "man on the lawn" THROUGH ALL THE TREES

Maybe if there was no exact location given, maybe I assumed it was on teh lawn on teh lakeside since there is plenty of lawn

If mailman saw him then he'd have been in the front yard woods, there is no real lawn so I guess I would hve expected it to say he was seen in the woods on the dermonds property

IDK, anyone have a link to state it was in the front yard or lakeside?

EATONTON, Ga. — Investigators in the year-old murder of an elderly Georgia couple would like to learn more about a man spotted on the lawn of the murder victims, the sheriff investigating the case said Tuesday.

"I consider (him) a suspect myself," said Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills. "But that's all I'll say about it. We had a witness that saw him out there."

Sills would not elaborate, nor would he provide a description of the man.

The case of Russell and Shirley Dermond remains unsolved.


more at link


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...ater/70875900/

Seems like there was speculation in the early threads that whomever spotted the man in the front yard may have been someone who was driving by. Maybe a news carrier or mailman?
I am looking at the front yard as being the road side and the back yard as the lakefront side. There was a lot of discussion on which side was which back then too!

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

It's not a high traffic area, they are the last house on the street on the culde sac, I would imagine they get almost zero passersby since it is a gated community too, of course people drive around adn look I suppose but yes teh mailman or other delivery person would be a likely witness if in the front yard.....Its something I've asked for a while and I nor anyone else has produced a link......like i said, maybe I asssumed since the lakeside is the only real lawn area on the property and it was stated by SS a witness "saw him OUT THERE" as if an expansive area like their lakeside yard

https://www.google.com/maps/place/1...b1df5a5de07016fc!8m2!3d33.398046!4d-83.236468

this is a winter image......would be very shady and lots of canvas in may.....shows how isolated the dermonds house was/is....it also shows one dock i can see at the cove opening........these lots had so many trees, not sure how anyone noticed anything except the fact the Dermonds lot was void of many trees so if the neighbors across cove were outside near water or on the docks, they had a good view,otherwise not so good but unless shirtless as someone mentioned, no way to tell if male or female without any shirt color or hair colors seems the witness is withholding ....Tried to get a streetview but The little fellow you drag for streetviews, isnt doing his job LOL....

Looking at the overhead map that Fred&Edna posted above (#387), there is another house on Carolyn Dr. Their dock is at the mouth of the cove with their land along the inside of the cove. On Westview Way which abuts the same cove on the other side, there are also two houses that have land on the cove, one of which has a dock in the cove.

I don't really believe the perp/s went after the Dermonds in particular. More likely, they found a quiet cove that looked unoccupied and picked a house to vandalize, rob or break in and party.and mistakenly picked one where someone was home. To cover their tracks, they killed them. Now that I put this down in writing, I'm not so sure though.


Here is the link from that post.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/147...xbf34f9972461ee90!2m2!1d-83.234624!2d33.39823

Seems like there was speculation in the early threads that whomever spotted the man in the front yard may have been someone who was driving by. Maybe a news carrier or mailman?
I am looking at the front yard as being the road side and the back yard as the lakefront side. There was a lot of discussion on which side was which back then too!

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

<Archive of WMAZ Dermond article links @ bottom of page --> www.13wmaz.com/story/news/local/2014/06/24/no-new-leads-in-dermond-murders/11327969/
Sills says they've narrowed the time frame for the murders down to sometime between the afternoon of Friday May 2nd and Saturday May 3rd.

He says the only possible witness they have was a caller who says, from a distance, she saw a man on the Dermonds' property that Saturday afternoon. "And that's the closest thing we have, we don't have a car description, we don't have a person description," Sills says.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

The front yard was trimmed in crape myrtles, boxwoods, and pine straw. In the driveway was that day’s edition of USA Today.
http://www.atlantamagazine.com/grea...-county-sheriff-howard-sills-chases-a-killer/
and from the images we've seen of the driveway and house, its mostly wooded in front

 

[Bootsctr]

The front yard was trimmed in crape myrtles, boxwoods, and pine straw. In the driveway was that day&#8217;s edition of USA Today.
http://www.atlantamagazine.com/grea...-county-sheriff-howard-sills-chases-a-killer/
and from the images we've seen of the driveway and house, its mostly wooded in front

So that would have been Tuesday's paper and Monday's paper. They were thrown and not delivered by mail. Where was Saturday's paper and Sunday's paper? Or did they not have the paper delivered on those days? Did the killer pick those papers up? Friday's paper was inside and SD had already worked the crossword puzzle.

So many questions. . . :banghead:

Okay. The couple&#8217;s Saturday mail was in the mailbox out front. Would the mail person have turned around in the D's drive?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

part 2, about 29 minute mark....they discuss the yards and trees etc and a man walking around on the dermonds property....articles typically say man on the lawn but listening to it trying to reference where he was.......and also whomever entered, entered the back door to the kitchen ( from screen porch) so in my mind they were all in and out that back door and yard and possibly only by boat but I just dont think people frequent his culde sac unless lost, no need for anyone to go past the next to the last house on the street except the Dermonds really

maybe someone can discern

https://www.swornpodcast.com/

 

[Bootsctr]

<Archive of WMAZ Dermond article links @ bottom of page --> www.13wmaz.com/story/news/local/2014/06/24/no-new-leads-in-dermond-murders/11327969/
Sills says they've narrowed the time frame for the murders down to sometime between the afternoon of Friday May 2nd and Saturday May 3rd.

He says the only possible witness they have was a caller who says, from a distance, she saw a man on the Dermonds' property that Saturday afternoon. "And that's the closest thing we have, we don't have a car description, we don't have a person description," Sills says.

For some crazy reason I am getting a cherry blossom webcam. I typed in RD name in the search bar and it brought up one article, but not the one regarding the witness to the man on the property.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

mustve been deleted

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

it was stated in other articles and on podcast that saturdays usa today comes on fridays

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

no there is a loop cul de sac

So that would have been Tuesday's paper and Monday's paper. They were thrown and not delivered by mail. Where was Saturday's paper and Sunday's paper? Or did they not have the paper delivered on those days? Did the killer pick those papers up? Friday's paper was inside and SD had already worked the crossword puzzle.

So many questions. . . :banghead:

Okay. The couple&#8217;s Saturday mail was in the mailbox out front. Would the mail person have turned around in the D's drive?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

my point here was how they described the front yard, lawn wasn't mentioned...but there is no one on the street side to witness anyone in the woods on front lawn

The front yard was trimmed in crape myrtles, boxwoods, and pine straw. In the driveway was that day’s edition of USA Today.
http://www.atlantamagazine.com/grea...-county-sheriff-howard-sills-chases-a-killer/
and from the images we've seen of the driveway and house, its mostly wooded in front

 

[Deleted member 162919]

could be the mail person or it could have been someone out walking their dog. Now we know it's a female who saw the guy in the yard so that answers that question. He has a description or at least a asic description he just won't give out that information for obvious reasons. He did mention from a distance so maybe it was from across the river

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Bootsctr,

Yes people visit by boat

But I agree, they didnt stop at the Dermonds dock, it's too open, its really the only dock IN the cove it appears once you enter the opening

Which lot has a dock but no house?

It was summer, lots of trees make for great cover.....people fish coves so seeing a boat in the cove isnt unusual, its NOT unusual for people to fish RIGHT AT your DOCK, like they could step onto your dock or even your shoreline, they get that close

I wish we knew more about what or what was not on that video surveillance of the neighbors, it makes sense no one entered by their dockand if the camera was actually pointed directly at it however something would have shown but we dont know if any boats came in the cover or if it was viewable on the cam even........but SS DID switch it up and later add, perps could have come by car didnt he??? IDK, i remember him being confused as well as to whether they came by boat or car.....actually might have less suspicion if by car, no one but the mailman probalby goes to the cul de sac often

but wouldnt the mailman have seen a car on saturday? I

Apparently there was no decaying flesh for cadaver dogs to locate but did they use search and rescue dogs? They detect scents rather than decay, like clothing and such dont they? SInce theydidnt show up at teh derby party SS was thinking she may be decaying in the woods since saturday and it had been almost a week by then, my guess the reason cadaver dogs were called out

Bumping fred&edna's post regarding the perp entering from another dock.

To me it would make sense that this would be one way to enter the Dermond's property without actually docking a boat at the D's dock and you would have much more cover entering via the neighbor's dock (the one w/o a house, just a dock). I think a boat at the D's dock would have drawn some attention much like a strange car parked in someone's driveway. I figure the neighbors were all aware that RD had sold their boat months before and it would be highly suspicious to see a boat there. People wouldn't normally come by boat to visit would they?

And if SD was hit as they made her go to the boat they wouldn't have to worry about being seen with the trees and other flora that would be on an unimproved lake lot. No hits by the cadaver dogs that we know of. You would think they would have alerted to any blood on the trail that was taken by the killers?? Maybe there wasn't much blood involved with hitting her on the head. I don't know. The New York lady that was killed by the fire extinguisher does remind me of the D's case.

I wish we could see SS's PowerPoint presentation!

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

HAHA

Remember many people fish the shorelines and could easily scope out an elderly couple or secluded home to rob

BUT....nothing was taken, if that were the case why didnt they atleast take the valuables readily seen and left behind? Even the whiskey..

I thought I remembered seeing that map before. Now, I know why. LOL

On the assumption that they were targeting the house, you may be right.
What if they were just looking for an empty looking house to gain entry into?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Just was re reading some things and notice that too, from a distance could only be across the lake and I think it was the other cove house on westview
She didnt say if she witnessed a boat or it wasn't told by SS if so but I'd think SS would be saying definitely by boat even if he didnt say there was a boat witnessed, but he's still floundering too about whether by boat or car or both

could be the mail person or it could have been someone out walking their dog. Now we know it's a female who saw the guy in the yard so that answers that question. He has a description or at least a asic description he just won't give out that information for obvious reasons. He did mention from a distance so maybe it was from across the river

 

[Bootsctr]

At this point, I am leaning toward killer/s came by boat. Just looking at where the D's dock was located in the cove and where SD's body was found (5 miles away from the home in the lake), it seems to me that the killer/s were very familiar with the lake.

It kind of makes sense to me that the killer could live on Lake Oconee. But just as likely they dumped SD's body as they were leaving the lake... or going back the opposite direction to go home.

Thinking about where RD's body was found, behind the vehicles in the garage, the killer/s wanted to hide the crime as long as possible. He wasn't outdoors, but in the climate-controlled garage. Not out in the open to be found. Just like they hid SD's body, they wanted to hide RD's as long as they could. They definitely got through the 48 hour marker!

If they had wanted, they could have posed RD's body for the ultimate shock value. After rigor mortis had passed (1-4 days), they could have sat him in his easy chair, minus his head, in the living room beside SD's easy chair, put a cigar in his hand and had a glass of whiskey sitting beside him on the table. Scratch that! I don't think the killer/s hung around long enough for rigor mortis to pass. They waited for the cover of night to move and sink SD's body.

Just thinking about snakes. You always cut a snake's head off to make sure it is dead. It's just what you do.