GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #11

[dancinunderthemoon]

HOckey I know you came in on this later in the investigation but initially, it was reported there were interviews of maintenance or lawn guys or someone next door who were working in the yard, the neighbors maid saw nothing, but that the guys reported they heard loud voices coming from inside, my guess is from inside the garage

it should be on WS somewhere but I don't have a link to article

SS did say he interviewed maintenance workers but I have to wonder if the worker he didn't interview ( know about ) was a former employee. I still believe this all happened in the garage and it happened in the morning or late at night. From the interview I just listened to SS says Mr D was wearing a robe and since there was no sign of a struggle in the house I am thinking Mr D heard a noise in the garage and went to see what it was. I think the noise was Shirley being beaten, he went after one of the attackers, a struggle ensued and they both were killed in the garage explaining how there was no evidence in the house. Maybe Mrs D was getting the mail or the paper when the killers entered the house and this could explain there being no forced entry. I just keep thinking of SS saying the house yielded no evidence of a struggle and nothing out of place except for a lamp shade. To have left no evidence in the house says they weren't in there at all. I'm trying a fresh approach from the very beginning not sure if i'm right but I think it makes some sense. I'd like to hear opinions

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I remember a chicken story on the podcast or an interview with SS where he was telling of his chicken theif story not related to the Dermonds, Ill have to relisten to podcast!

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Relistening to the Sworn Podcast, about 11:58 part 2, they are discussing the concrete guy, they said the Dermonds had not yet contacted him and that he had been vetted and ruled out....people are ruled out all the time and not on anyones "radar" as the perp...……..so...someone gave them that number, could it be they mentioned to the guys about this couple? Im just throwing stuff around but he is the only one that is obvious that could have had SOME sort of contact with the D's or knew about them via whomever gave them that number that was jotted down.....you know... cement, concrete blocks, brick/block work, he apparently repairs concrete and I wonder what else...I know many who deal in concrete but also brick laying but I don't suppose they all do.....he could have been there to check it out who knows, becasuse he was vetted doesn't mean he's necessarily innocent however, I do suppose if they'd called him the number would be on their cell phone…..just thought id toss that around...going to listen to the rest

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

The thought of the concrete was eery to me suddenly, he's been ruled out and I never thought it would be someone like that...still, concrete and concrete blocks...eery

However, rethinking how long they stayed and took NOTHING, unless, there was something very valuable someone wanted or knew they had

Still, someone was too familiar with the place or just too familiar with the AREA, their street...….surely there was HOA dues as someone mentioned but eh family has always said they had no lawn or household help....wouldn't lawn mainteneance include someone hired by HOA and besides the yard didn't look overly kempt

but someone familiar with the AREA would linger longer...irony huh?....and feel comfortable especially since they are one of two houses on that culdesace, no one across from them, or beside them except beside them before you arrive at their drive

Still say someone was familiar, comfortable and safe and knew the neighbors were out of the country .

No one I recall ever reported HEARING a gunshot but you don't always pay that much attention at the lake or woldnt even know where it came from with the echos over the lake

eh, just pondering

Relistening to the Sworn Podcast, about 11:58 part 2, they are discussing the concrete guy, they said the Dermonds had not yet contacted him and that he had been vetted and ruled out....people are ruled out all the time and not on anyones "radar" as the perp...……..so...someone gave them that number, could it be they mentioned to the guys about this couple? Im just throwing stuff around but he is the only one that is obvious that could have had SOME sort of contact with the D's or knew about them via whomever gave them that number that was jotted down.....you know... cement, concrete blocks, brick/block work, he apparently repairs concrete and I wonder what else...I know many who deal in concrete but also brick laying but I don't suppose they all do.....he could have been there to check it out who knows, becasuse he was vetted doesn't mean he's necessarily innocent however, I do suppose if they'd called him the number would be on their cell phone…..just thought id toss that around...going to listen to the rest

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

How big was that mesh bag that could held TWO (2) reddish colored 30 lb cinder blocks

What kind of bag was it?

Were these cap blocks or cinder blocks and were they red like garden edgers or stepping stones or semi reddish from the lake red clay water?

her ankles were tied together and the mesh bag with blocks tied around both legs additionally

Who would have these items?

 

[Deleted member 162919]

Been saying that for years....we know that he was definitely beheaded in the garage...if you listen to podcast.....since the house was so immaculate, they didn't go inside, it was outside or in the garage, the reason I had asked about guns waaaay back in regards to .22 and .38 etc, as to what kind of splatter up close and at a short distance to compare to what was in the garage, very little splatter if any..IIRC………

Guns at the lake don't draw attention unless of course its middle of the night but there was GSR on his collar, again, VERY LITTLE IIRC according to podcast

Philip Holloway said that does not mean he was shot.....maybe since it was so little GSR on his collar that it could be they shot someone else.....but no evidence of that exists

What does exist is the newest info says that RD had SD hair in his hand, he tried very hard to hold on to her and protect her from someone taking her away it sounds like......for him to still have that in his hands after death, would imply the Gunshot or death occurred immediately after they took SD

IM getting nauseous thinking of it all....so so so horrible and sad

so Ithink it all happened in or outside the garage, finsished in garage, maybe at the garage door

what I cnat figure out and it may be nothing but its bugged me since I heard it

WHY did they drag him thru his own blood? How far? I remember the early articles said he was moved a few feet, aaah, so maybe it was to get him inside the garage because IIRC he was behind and between the cars near garage door and towels all around him....

but it was his feet that were dragged thru blood, there were faint bloody drag marks made by RD feet

Maybe Mr D grabbed ahold of Shirley as they were being beaten by the killers and this is when mr d was shot if he was shot which I still doubt because it would have been a real close shot nd there would be more gsr than a little.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

agree , if shot it was not at close range, and wouldn't there be lots of blood splatter from that, with either a .22 or .38 at close range? I just don't know how the GSR got on RD collar, could it be someone had previously fired a shot but not at anyone, had GSR ON THEIR HAND and was holding him at the neck or collar? IIRC it was at the back of the collar? Or did I make that up ? LOL....

at any rate, we now know they were together and that a struggle insued, he tried so desparately to hang on to his lovely wife...…….this truly makes me teary eyed

She was likely up before he was, heard a noise or answered the door and knew who they were, he was either just rising, as he was in boxers and robe and t shirt and slippers, he heard a knock or ocmotion or knew they had "guests", I think they entered back door, she let them /him in there and they went into garage

Without the head the whole scenario is a mystery, was he shot at all? Bludgeoned? Don't know why they'd take the head to prevent anyone fom knowing he was bludgeoned but ironically it prevents anyone from knowing anything about his death really, it wasnt' death by amputation

ANother thing on the podcast that still disturbs me, they say RD was likely not killed where he was found,maybe Im dense but THE WAY I VIEW IT IS... CLEARLY....he was beheaded there but if he was MOVED INTO THE GARAGE after death ouside then there would be NO BLOOD ON FLOOR to drag hs foot thru, until AFTER HE WAS BEHEADED, he could have died right there, but the blood had to be there first in order to drag him thru it

DOES ANYONE GET WHAT IM SAYING HERE? WHY does it appear he was NOT Killed there? Whose blood was in that garage already for him to be dragged thru it? HIs head was taken AFTER DEATH which caused all this blood

why move him AFTER You beheaded him? to be able to drag his foot thru the blood or any blood

another thing that SS said but didn't complete was, there were other blood spots like the big one where they thougth the head had been placed on the floor

what would that be?

Maybe Mr D grabbed ahold of Shirley as they were being beaten by the killers and this is when mr d was shot if he was shot which I still doubt because it would have been a real close shot nd there would be more gsr than a little.

 

[kirkassoc]

I'm going to throw this out there for examples of possibilities for perpetrators.

Several years ago, we had wood floors installed in our home. The contractor and his assistant seemed professional, and we were pleased with the outcome. However, during the process of installing the floors, the contractor's "stepson" came to visit and "help" out a little (very little he did). He was probably in his early 20s. This young man was almost "overly" friendly, walking around and asking about things. We have a doorbell box high on the wall in one of the hallways, and I remember him specifically asking what that was for. I did explain to him (for he made me feel uncomfortable) that we had a burglar alarm system.

Approximately two weeks passed, and one night (around 12:30 am) our burglar alarm went off (it's loud enough to wake the dead, inside and out). One of our back bedroom windows had been tampered with and gave off the alarm. My hubby went outside and our neighbor heard the alarm and said she saw him hunkered down behind her house. By the time the police got there (my husband also went back there), he was gone. I will always believe it had something to do with that stepson of the contractor.

I say all this to say that perhaps the D's had contractors in with "friends" or "relatives" who had visited while they were working, several months prior to when this occurred. One thing that attracts "young" intruders to the elderly , is the fact that they just might have DRUGS or PAIN KILLERS on hand due to their age, etc.

I hope LE does check in with WS to review comments. I have read some excellent ideas put forth on this case, IMHO.

 

[kirkassoc]

hmmm, if she was accosted first (beaten about the head, as indicated), RD may have heard something, found her and as he was leaning over, smoothing her hair away to check the wound, was shot in the back of the head. Though why they would remove one and behead the other is just far, far beyond me.

I also wonder if someone had been near him or in close proximity when he picked up her prescription earlier in the day. They may have followed him home, looking for more drugs? I hope LE carefully looks at the videos for anyone lurking near him. JMO

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I should know that, glad yall wreent robbed or hurt....I had a painter I trusted and when I let her in the fine rental home I had for rent, she took the key, the garage door opener AND the gate card as it as it was gated community...…..dang...….why did I not remember this...……..anyway, she later returned the key, not sure she didt make a copy tho, returned the garage door opener but neeever could find that gate card for the community to get in with, had order a new one, changed the locks and code on garage...….damn, cant trust anyone, this was a woman, I guess she'd appear less dangerous or intimidating, whatever

Yeah the thing is that so far as we know, there had been NO workers there...…….if not the cement guy repairing the driveway, maybe like you said, someone that worked with him, but interesting he was to contact a cement man and they sometimes do brick work too, not always but seems very coincidental, there are no coincidences? Yes there are I know that after today...…. BUT...….

according to the FBI profiler list...….someone to do that, tey knew them, they felt comfortable enough there to linger longer even if not for the whole day, it was NOT a drive by beheading, they hung around and knew t

THey were familiar with the lake and probably well, since they knew it a little, they were definitely not in a hurry to leave the house, they knew something and they knew no one was gonna check up til the next day or longer and knew they were isolated there, neighbors in asia or something and NO Other neighbors

anyway...….thanks for your thoughts......

I'm going to throw this out there for examples of possibilities for perpetrators.

Several years ago, we had wood floors installed in our home. The contractor and his assistant seemed professional, and we were pleased with the outcome. However, during the process of installing the floors, the contractor's "stepson" came to visit and "help" out a little (very little he did). He was probably in his early 20s. This young man was almost "overly" friendly, walking around and asking about things. We have a doorbell box high on the wall in one of the hallways, and I remember him specifically asking what that was for. I did explain to him (for he made me feel uncomfortable) that we had a burglar alarm system.

Approximately two weeks passed, and one night (around 12:30 am) our burglar alarm went off (it's loud enough to wake the dead, inside and out). One of our back bedroom windows had been tampered with and gave off the alarm. My hubby went outside and our neighbor heard the alarm and said she saw him hunkered down behind her house. By the time the police got there (my husband also went back there), he was gone. I will always believe it had something to do with that stepson of the contractor.

I say all this to say that perhaps the D's had contractors in with "friends" or "relatives" who had visited while they were working, several months prior to when this occurred. One thing that attracts "young" intruders to the elderly , is the fact that they just might have DRUGS or PAIN KILLERS on hand due to their age, etc.

I hope LE does check in with WS to review comments. I have read some excellent ideas put forth on this case, IMHO.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Good points, IM getting stuck in a frame here, bothers me how long they stayed, as if they were comfortable there...….but who knows, we don't so it could be anyone!

Good point about her

I wonder if they walked them thru the house, the front door was locked when the friends arrived, they unlocked it and exited the front door and waited for LE

THey entered the back door upper level which is accessed by ground level screen porch, it was unlocked

unless garage door was up when they arrived

so puzzling!

I definitely believe it was someone they knew

hmmm, if she was accosted first (beaten about the head, as indicated), RD may have heard something, found her and as he was leaning over, smoothing her hair away to check the wound, was shot in the back of the head. Though why they would remove one and behead the other is just far, far beyond me.

I also wonder if someone had been near him or in close proximity when he picked up her prescription earlier in the day. They may have followed him home, looking for more drugs? I hope LE carefully looks at the videos for anyone lurking near him. JMO

 

[Deleted member 162919]

I keep wondering why they almost insist RD was killed somewhere else and I am now wondering if they found something on his shoes or clothes indicating he was killed maybe in the woods ( grass stain or dirt on his clothes or shoes. But I think it would be a huge mistake for the killers to do this for the possibility of being seen with the victim, passing a camera, running the risk of being pulled over etc. I keep thinking of the interview where they mention there were a lot of towels and I wonder if they used the towels in a way where could soak up the blood before it spurted out. If RD was dead before the beheading( I think he was) this could explain them leaning him up against a car or the garage door while they cut his head off. The blood wouldn't spurt out as much in this position and since he was dead the heart wasn't pumping. . 1 thing i'm certain of is this was very well planned. Nobody could do this in a moments notice and be as prepared as the killers were. I'd like to know if these towels belonged to the Dermonds or if the killers brought them, i'd also like to know about the cement blocks did they match anything from the landscaping around the house?

 

[Tripod]

Lurking here, checking in, and still as dumbfounded as ever about this horrific crime. This is one I really, really want to see resolved. Thanks, WS'ers, for keeping the Dermond case discussion going!

 

[kirkassoc]

Remember the comment about the damage to one of RDs fingers? I wonder if his finger was damaged when he was trying to shield his wife's head as she was being bludgeoned, and he was holding onto her hair to protect her head? She was fully dressed, and they even mentioned that her shoes were still tied when she was found, I believe. He was in the clothes he slept in the night before (or he may have been preparing for bed), with house slippers, robe, shorts, teeshirt, etc. (and the clothes he was seen in on the video were found in the bedroom on a chair). He was preparing to get in or had just gotten out of bed, IMO.

Their home seemed totally surrounded by windows, EXCEPT the garage. Would this be why they were murdered there? I didn't see any windows in the garage doors, I don't believe. Lights on all over the house (at night) might have drawn attention, and their dastardly deeds would have been seen by a passerby. I wonder what lights were on when the neighbors/LE came to investigate.

Just trying to remember some info from when this case began over four years ago. Hard to believe it's been that long and still nothing. Are they still working this case? Is it just one, lone SS trying to solve it?

 

[Vedder]

The damage to his finger was from many years ago.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

You don't realize how unnoticed things are at the lake....even when the homes are side by side....unless its daytime outside on the docks and neighbors can see you, things really go unnoticed, I lived at Sinclair off and on for 23 years

that house was up on the hill, rooms very large with porches, unless someone had binoculars I don't think they coudld see inside

besides that I think it happened after breakfast or brunch time

it was never told what the stomach contents held, if anything

They were on a cove, the garage is not facing the cove/lake, their house is on a dead end cul de sac, with one neighbor who was in asia at the time......no passersby IMO, only cameras were on the docks, facing the wrong way and nothing was noted

HIs finger, the family said, was a war injury but you certainly make a good point...…

I think they were dragging her away from him, so it seems they were together, either both marched to the garage or one heard commotion and came in but near the end, they were side by side or he lunged to grap ahold of her, clearly they yanked her away......horrid HORRID to imagine

As far as we know and according to a message someone received from him, he looks at all the messages and to me it appears its him and him alone...….in the beginning he called for help from some other agencies, I don't know if GBI has anything they can add or not, he wont let them get involved, FBI was involved, not sure now tho

Remember the comment about the damage to one of RDs fingers? I wonder if his finger was damaged when he was trying to shield his wife's head as she was being bludgeoned, and he was holding onto her hair to protect her head? She was fully dressed, and they even mentioned that her shoes were still tied when she was found, I believe. He was in the clothes he slept in the night before (or he may have been preparing for bed), with house slippers, robe, shorts, teeshirt, etc. (and the clothes he was seen in on the video were found in the bedroom on a chair). He was preparing to get in or had just gotten out of bed, IMO.

Their home seemed totally surrounded by windows, EXCEPT the garage. Would this be why they were murdered there? I didn't see any windows in the garage doors, I don't believe. Lights on all over the house (at night) might have drawn attention, and their dastardly deeds would have been seen by a passerby. I wonder what lights were on when the neighbors/LE came to investigate.

Just trying to remember some info from when this case began over four years ago. Hard to believe it's been that long and still nothing. Are they still working this case? Is it just one, lone SS trying to solve it?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

The only thing I can't get past is that THEY WERE THE ONLY TWO PEOPLE ON THAT STREET OR ATLEAST SURROUNDING THEM

perfect place to commit this crime, PERFECT

I think that because he was dragged a few feet or what appeared to be a few feet due to the slight blood stained drag marks might be the whole reason for thinking it occurred elsewhere, I never took elsewhere to mean at another site but rather, location ON THEIR PROPERTY

Yes you are right, nothing has been mentioned about stains on bedroom shoes or dirt on clothes, nothing, I wonder too, good point! BUT SURELY since they brought up the fact that he was possibly murdered outside the garage that they would have surely, SURELY, they would have mentioned why....hahaha, but not in this case I guess

I wondered whose towels also, if the D's then the perps DID go inside, surely they wont bring their own towels, THERE is where you'd get some DNA if they did

Still not sure what kind of blocks and if there are any on the property or WHO would have had that type in their possession, could lend a clue

Still not sure what kind of bag they were in and what the use is for, that might give a clue to the perps too possibly as well as the blocks

I think that he was dead before the beheading too HOckey...I cant get past the lack of blood splatter in the garage as it's been told...WOW you might be onto something about that, even if lying down, they could have put towels somewhere on him to prevent as much splatter but if shot with towel on his head, there would be a gunshot hole, well unless they took that too!!! hmmm

I believe this was planned

wondering now about them moving him after he was beheaded, surely he wasn't in the way of the garage door, it was most certainly closed during this traumatic act but

they may have moved him more away from the garage door after he was beheaded to keep blood from running out under it, then decided to use towels to prevent it more...……..

I think now that might be why he was moved and dragged thruthe blood it was faint marks so the blood may have been drying already when they decided to move him away from door

but why not move him further into the garage if that's the reason?why even use towels?

Yeah for some reason those towels came into play other than to keep the blood from running under garage door to driveway

maybe what you said about splatter, maybe it was around his head so they didn't have to see his face at all

GOd how horrible

I keep wondering why they almost insist RD was killed somewhere else and I am now wondering if they found something on his shoes or clothes indicating he was killed maybe in the woods ( grass stain or dirt on his clothes or shoes. But I think it would be a huge mistake for the killers to do this for the possibility of being seen with the victim, passing a camera, running the risk of being pulled over etc. I keep thinking of the interview where they mention there were a lot of towels and I wonder if they used the towels in a way where could soak up the blood before it spurted out. If RD was dead before the beheading( I think he was) this could explain them leaning him up against a car or the garage door while they cut his head off. The blood wouldn't spurt out as much in this position and since he was dead the heart wasn't pumping. . 1 thing i'm certain of is this was very well planned. Nobody could do this in a moments notice and be as prepared as the killers were. I'd like to know if these towels belonged to the Dermonds or if the killers brought them, i'd also like to know about the cement blocks did they match anything from the landscaping around the house?

 

[kirkassoc]

The damage to his finger was from many years ago.

I remember them saying it was from years ago, but the fact that they mentioned it at the time, made me wonder if he had blood on his hands (and her hair in his hand) and they couldn't tell the day this happened that it was an old wound?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

You know what! He DID have bloody hand or hands and bruised hand or hands, according to podcast...... I just remembered that

That is what alerted LE to inquire about his finger I guess...…

Its clear he was trying to hold on to her, protect, her, I wonder, I guess he saw them hit her......where did the blood come from I wonder, were there cuts? Whose blood? HIs? Hers? Apparently not theirs cuz SS has no dna evidence

I remembering wondering if the blood was from dragging him or wondered was it from defense...…

I guess they weren't surprised as many had thought, maybe a little, but not entirely...….

BUt clearly bruises were defense wounds, fighting back

so sad

I remember them saying it was from years ago, but the fact that they mentioned it at the time, made me wonder if he had blood on his hands (and her hair in his hand) and they couldn't tell the day this happened that it was an old wound?

 

[kirkassoc]

I have a feeling the only way this case will be solved is if a totally new, totally detached team of investigators form a task force to look at ALL the evidence bit by bit. I occasionally watch youtube videos about a cold case team who start at the beginning and try to solve (with a lot of success) nothing but cold cases.