GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #12

[dancinunderthemoon]

Somebody close to them or that could be detected easily went to great lengths to get rid of their DNA at crime scene or not leave any behind

 

[deugirtni]

I didn’t realize, or had forgotten, there were no memorial services for the Dermonds. Do we know if they had requested this, or was it left up to the surviving family?

IF, this had happened to my elderly parents, and they had not left funeral instructions, I believe I would have had a service. I would have been distraught, and needed the comfort of friends, family, and well wishers, that a service/memorial would have provided. Shortly after the service, and up until the time of apprehension of the perps, I would have parked myself at the sheriff’s office, and done everything in my power to solve this horrific crime.

IMHO

I guess all families do whatever feels right for them at the time, and based on the deceased's wishes, etc. But given that this couple was so elderly (so for them, one might presume a service would have been something they would have expected to take place for them upon their deaths), and the nature of their previous businesses, throughout the course of their lives they would have made SO many acquaintances and connections and friends, employees, biz associates, etc..

I'd say maybe they didn't *have* a lot of 'friends' left, given their elderly ages.. but in the Ds' case, there were probably many people who may have wished to extend their condolences to 'one another', if not also to the family themselves.. and if not also to 'pay their last respects' during a memorial service.

It seems like funeral services aren't *just* for the family, but also for those that knew them.. I am having trouble articulating what my point is here!! Say the fam was super private and didn't care about receiving the condolences of anyone connected with their parents, outside of their immediate fam.. that's fine and understandable.. but sometimes in life we have to do things that we don't personally necessarily relish doing, in consideration of others, perhaps.

So we have a church who holds some kind of a service.. but it's not attended by the family.. and then the family, whatever they happened to do (nothing perhaps?) was completely private. The Ds would have had friends, associates, aquaintences, etc., from different areas, such as perhaps NJ, Atlanta, Putnam County, etc.. seems odd that all of those people would not have been able to express their condolences, or chat about their memories, 'the good old days, touch base with one another, or whatever.. (celebration of life, type of thing?)..

Also, don't police often utilize the funeral/memorial service to kind of have a look around at who attends, etc... it almost seems like perhaps there may have been another potential tool that was missed by police (not by choice), since there was no real opportunity for police to observe certain aspects..

All jmo.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

There certainly was a closed casket ceremony and as I mentioned, maybe cremated and ashes buried, so nothing really to pay ones respects to

Typically funerals are for the living

But...the D's were regular church goers and clearly friends who attended the vigil would have attended the burial or service as well

There were also some close friends, neighbors and bridge club and maybe former golf buddies that would have attended.....elderly tend to be loyal at funerals

Ironic that the family flew in, didnt attend vigil, flew out, made no plea for mom or dads killers, KD said he hoped his mom was dead (with their father) , they skirted questions from the start and chit chat by having a private ceremony

Waited 4 years to do an interview to make a plea adn claimed there parents were private people and wouldnt have approved

Yeah I bet RD and SD didnt approve of the murders either.......nothing is private after a beheading of an 88 yr old man in his home and 87 yr old wife dead and snagged on a tree in the lake where murderers dumped her.............yeah..........family protocol goes out the window

 

[deugirtni]

There certainly was a closed casket ceremony ...

Waited 4 years to do an interview to make a plea ....

How do you know there was a closed casket ceremony? AFAIK, there's only been the one service at their church which was organized by the pastor himself, I believe, and which the family chose not to involve themselves with (I'm not sure if this occurred before or after SD's body had been found? Anyone know?), and then it was said the family was having a 'private service'... which could mean in fact, 'no service'.

And although it was said that one of the sons was breaking the family's silence after 4 years to make a plea for information, I didn't hear any plea coming from him.. did anyone else?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

How do you know there was a closed casket ceremony? AFAIK, there's only been the one service at their church which was organized by the pastor himself, I believe, and which the family chose not to involve themselves with (I'm not sure if this occurred before or after SD's body had been found? Anyone know?), and then it was said the family was having a 'private service'... which could mean in fact, 'no service'.

And although it was said that one of the sons was breaking the family's silence after 4 years to make a plea for information, I didn't hear any plea coming from him.. did anyone else?

because he had no head, OMG and she had skin slippage and bloated

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

How do you know there was a closed casket ceremony? AFAIK, there's only been the one service at their church which was organized by the pastor himself, I believe, and which the family chose not to involve themselves with (I'm not sure if this occurred before or after SD's body had been found? Anyone know?), and then it was said the family was having a 'private service'... which could mean in fact, 'no service'.

And although it was said that one of the sons was breaking the family's silence after 4 years to make a plea for information, I didn't hear any plea coming from him.. did anyone else?

No, Brad didnt say he was making a plea but the reporter stated that was the gist of the interview.....
We all know the family has made no efforts in finding their parents killers, we think didnt give to the reward fund and didnt make a public plea at any time until this interview, which Brad DID NOT state anything himself, he stuttered at the right times is all. Four years is too late

You're picking apart the wrong things

 

[kirkassoc]

Thank you for this map. Just what I wanted! And more!
It magnifies how far the boat would have had to travel before dumping her. Just before the lake really narrows (which I assume is where the dam is). Why carry her that far? Was she still alive? Were they trying to get some info from her? I would think it would almost have to rule out a dinghy-type boat because someone could have reported seeing her in the boat. Even with a bigger boat someone would have seen her unless they had her down on the floorboard?
Your map also shows how your car would have driven down there. It made me think of what if they did drive her out? Trying to get some info from her (to maybe hit an ATM) but decided to kill her instead and driving down to where they had a boat, maybe at their house? Then, they would just take her out in their boat, dump her and get back to their dock very quickly? They could have had the rope, cement blocks and laundry bag at their place.

What absolutely floors me about this crime is all the subterfuge and the ins and outs, the two entirely different modes of death, two entirely different locations of bodies, etc. And, yet, NOTHING, NOTHING is reported missing or out of place in the home or around the home. No writing in blood (that we know of). It would "almost" appear as if they were very, very careful not to disturb anything in or around the home. The more I know (or think I know), the more I end up scratching my head.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

No, Brad didnt say he was making a plea but the reporter stated that was the gist of the interview.....
We all know the family has made no efforts in finding their parents killers, we think didnt give to the reward fund and didnt make a public plea at any time until this interview, which Brad DID NOT state anything himself, he stuttered at the right times is all. Four years is too late

You're picking apart the wrong things

I really think they were cremated, why even put those bodies in a casket, cant really embalm them and whats the point now at the condition of the bodies

They could have seriously had no service at all and just had the headstones, if any are there, on the graves,

Ashes may have been scattered there or anywhere, anytime after

Though the paper did announce a service, the family could have lied about one.

But why even do the headstones? If there is one, no picture on line of the gravesites yet

KD stated in an articl that they "didnt really know what to do now" since they wanted their ashes scattered in the lake.........

My sister has a headstone with her ashes, a place where the children can go to visit their mother basically

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

What absolutely floors me about this crime is all the subterfuge and the ins and outs, the two entirely different modes of death, two entirely different locations of bodies, etc. And, yet, NOTHING, NOTHING is reported missing or out of place in the home or around the home. No writing in blood (that we know of). It would "almost" appear as if they were very, very careful not to disturb anything in or around the home. The more I know (or think I know), the more I end up scratching my head.

The more I know, the more it seems clearly, in my view anyway

THink about if RD had the perps blood in his mouth from biting him/her

How do you hide that evidence?

Maybe they had planned to haul them both off , but due do possible dna of the blood inside RD mouth maybe they decided to take the head (to conceal evidence) instead

Maybe for some reason they couldnt carry him to the boat or was afraid that blood wold not wash away inside the closed mouth if he was dropped in the river

And SD, if she had the perps blood all over her or some other dna/forensics, on the outside of her body, nails, etc then the river over 14 days would wash that away

I cant figure why she'd have had the perps blood or dna on her, except maybe under the nails, she had no apparent abuse other than the head trauma, though her attacker could have been bleeding for some reason and in detaining her, got it all over her.........IDK any ideas?

I think due to the hair in RD's hands its safe to assume it was 2 different attackers, one holding RD back and one holding SD back

ANd she wasnt raped IIRC

ALso, had SD been left in the garage too, I think LE might have looked REAL CLOSELY at the family as the perpetrators, so that would imply why if they were involved

Though SS said he didnt THINK THEY, forget the wording, but this according to Into the Case Podcast

 

[drama_farmer]

I was thinking the other day about this case, and the decapitation as a compromise. Possibly, while hauling SD away (to "the boat" most likely), one of the perps may have injured him/herself. I'm thinking along the lines of a back strain, muscle pull, badly sprained ankle, dislocated shoulder.

They arrive back at the garage, and come to the realization that there's no way they can transport RDs body the same way. So, what to do? Can't just leave him here, with "evidence" in/on his head. One person can maybe drag his body, but we've all heard about the complications that come with "dead weight."

Now what???
IMO, MOO, speculation:
The presence of the towels to contain the blood on the floor seems like a desperation move to me. I can almost visualize the scene, with the perps watching the blood as it begins to flow. "Get something to stop that from going out the door!" The rushing around the garage, holding up various items for approval. "No, that won't work, it's not big enough." "There's a bathroom right there, look for towels!"

Just some food for thought. MOO

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

For sure.......I can see that, I imagined something sort of like that when I realized it was probably something not planned, yeah that panic makes sense.........

I hadnt thought of an injury though, good one!

SO if an injury prevented it, then they were likely going to haul them both off but if dna caused the need to haul them off.........then that part was unplanned.

Why would they wish to kill them and leave them where they fell? Would they have? And why? No maybe not due to the fact they didnt want anyone to know about him being in there since the towels were used to dam the blood flow into the driveway.......giving them time

Now a step further, did they KNOW beforehand that the bathroom was "right there"? I guess if they are in ......OMG..... real estate or construction they might know or have a very good notion on the layout of all these type houses???

Smaller homes dont usually have a bathroom by the garage? Or do they? I know some do, my parents, not mine, my cousins does, but I've managed some upscale homes that didnt..........hmmm, food for thought, I know others have inquired about this, and if they rummaged thru the house to find towels

Or did they know the layout of this house?

I still just wonder WHO would go to such great lengths to go so undetected as to hide him, haul her off, no dna left behind, that we know of...........

Someone they knew..........who might be detected so much quicker if suspected at all.....

All i know is someone didnt want their dna discovered

Thanks!

I was thinking the other day about this case, and the decapitation as a compromise. Possibly, while hauling SD away (to "the boat" most likely), one of the perps may have injured him/herself. I'm thinking along the lines of a back strain, muscle pull, badly sprained ankle, dislocated shoulder.

They arrive back at the garage, and come to the realization that there's no way they can transport RDs body the same way. So, what to do? Can't just leave him here, with "evidence" in/on his head. One person can maybe drag his body, but we've all heard about the complications that come with "dead weight."

Now what???
IMO, MOO, speculation:
The presence of the towels to contain the blood on the floor seems like a desperation move to me. I can almost visualize the scene, with the perps watching the blood as it begins to flow. "Get something to stop that from going out the door!" The rushing around the garage, holding up various items for approval. "No, that won't work, it's not big enough." "There's a bathroom right there, look for towels!"

Just some food for thought. MOO

 

[RTC]

For sure.......I can see that, I imagined something sort of like that when I realized it was probably something not planned, yeah that panic makes sense.........

I hadnt thought of an injury though, good one!

SO if an injury prevented it, then they were likely going to haul them both off but if dna caused the need to haul them off.........then that part was unplanned.

Why would they wish to kill them and leave them where they fell? Would they have? And why? No maybe not due to the fact they didnt want anyone to know about him being in there since the towels were used to dam the blood flow into the driveway.......giving them time

Now a step further, did they KNOW beforehand that the bathroom was "right there"? I guess if they are in ......OMG..... real estate or construction they might know or have a very good notion on the layout of all these type houses???

Smaller homes dont usually have a bathroom by the garage? Or do they? I know some do, my parents, not mine, my cousins does, but I've managed some upscale homes that didnt..........hmmm, food for thought, I know others have inquired about this, and if they rummaged thru the house to find towels

Or did they know the layout of this house?

I still just wonder WHO would go to such great lengths to go so undetected as to hide him, haul her off, no dna left behind, that we know of...........

Someone they knew..........who might be detected so much quicker if suspected at all.....

All i know is someone didnt want their dna discovered

Thanks!

For sure.......I can see that, I imagined something sort of like that when I realized it was probably something not planned, yeah that panic makes sense.........

I hadnt thought of an injury though, good one!

SO if an injury prevented it, then they were likely going to haul them both off but if dna caused the need to haul them off.........then that part was unplanned.

Why would they wish to kill them and leave them where they fell? Would they have? And why? No maybe not due to the fact they didnt want anyone to know about him being in there since the towels were used to dam the blood flow into the driveway.......giving them time

Now a step further, did they KNOW beforehand that the bathroom was "right there"? I guess if they are in ......OMG..... real estate or construction they might know or have a very good notion on the layout of all these type houses???

Smaller homes dont usually have a bathroom by the garage? Or do they? I know some do, my parents, not mine, my cousins does, but I've managed some upscale homes that didnt..........hmmm, food for thought, I know others have inquired about this, and if they rummaged thru the house to find towels

Or did they know the layout of this house?

I still just wonder WHO would go to such great lengths to go so undetected as to hide him, haul her off, no dna left behind, that we know of...........

Someone they knew..........who might be detected so much quicker if suspected at all.....

All i know is someone didnt want their dna discovered

Thanks!

 

[OTPTarheel2018]

We're coming up on 5 years.

I'd still be sitting in SS office at 8:30 daily until about 5 pm, if someone murdered my parents.

This is the case that drew me to Websleuths.

My late parents, who were close in age to the D's, sat me down when I turned 30, went over their wills and specific plans for their funerals, including music, flowers, footstones, etc.
I find it hard to believe that the D's had no specific plans.

JMO

 

[Deleted member 162919]

Wow this forum died down quick everyone must be waiting for the anniversary update or the next podcast

 

[kirkassoc]

Wouldn't it be amazing if there was a satellite which could zoom in wherever a crime was committed and catch license numbers or even zoom in on faces, etc?

I have not nor ever will forget this case and check to see if there are any leads on a regular basis. I don't know if there are going to be more podcasts regarding this case, but I hope so.

 

[Kittybunny]

We're coming up on 5 years.

I'd still be sitting in SS office at 8:30 daily until about 5 pm, if someone murdered my parents.

This is the case that drew me to Websleuths.

My late parents, who were close in age to the D's, sat me down when I turned 30, went over their wills and specific plans for their funerals, including music, flowers, footstones, etc.
I find it hard to believe that the D's had no specific plans.

JMO

Agree. As earlier discussion pointed out, 5 days for a wellness check is just crazy when you have elderly parents. I speak to my mom, who is only 73, daily and if I don’t hear from her within 24 hours and I fail to reach her other ways and still no response, I have a neighbor go check on her.

Of course we don’t have the Dermonds phone records, that at least would indicate that one or more of the kids were calling on a regular basis, with increasing frequency perhaps as worry set in.

Life goes on, Dad was beheaded and Mom dumped in a lake, oh well, la-di-da.

Wonder if the Dermond kids are related to the Bob Harrod’s kids.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

For real.............but this has been shouted from the roof tops since this crime's inception........I've always had reservations about their behavior ...err lack thereof

I think SS said there was an email fri possibly between D's and one child

I think none called but the friends who found them

SAD...........

Agree. As earlier discussion pointed out, 5 days for a wellness check is just crazy when you have elderly parents. I speak to my mom, who is only 73, daily and if I don’t hear from her within 24 hours and I fail to reach her other ways and still no response, I have a neighbor go check on her.

Of course we don’t have the Dermonds phone records, that at least would indicate that one or more of the kids were calling on a regular basis, with increasing frequency perhaps as worry set in.

Life goes on, Dad was beheaded and Mom dumped in a lake, oh well, la-di-da.

Wonder if the Dermond kids are related to the Bob Harrod’s kids.

 

[deugirtni]

RSBM

Wonder if the Dermond kids are related to the Bob Harrod’s kids.

Is there a WS thread for Bob Harrod? (Couldn't find one?)

 

[kirkassoc]

Is there a WS thread for Bob Harrod? (Couldn't find one?)

A podcast about Bob Harrod

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[watcher9]

Do we know what kind of towels they used? Could they have been kitchen towels? Was there a bathroom right off the garage?