GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 4

[Cardinal47]

Went out for a morning walk, of course thought about this case the entire time. It has to be financial - that seems like the only motive; it's not sexual, jealousy, so greed comes to mind. If it was planned for them to be killed, I don't understand the beheading (unless that was "proof" to someone??). If it was kind of random, like people sneaking onto their property and getting caught, again why the beheading? I think that is what has us all so sadden by this case. That, their age, and the grief left behind. I hope by now they can tell what weapons were used and if it was one or two people.

That's what bothers me too. To cut off the head of an old man...who does that. Then to take an old woman and sink her in the river so her family has to look for her...who does that?

Austin Sigg clone is the only answer I can come up with. I think one of them is living in that community and I also think those living with him have a suspicion but are afraid to speak up.

'The depraved murderer then bound the girl’s hands and feet with zip ties - a move he practiced before the kidnapping on his mother Mindy Sigg, the Denver Post reports. The killer’s mom also joked with friends about her son’s sick fascination with body decomposition, part of his bizarre fixation on mortuary science.'

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...ng10-year-old-article-1.1535599#ixzz32w2D6Fkv


Also I notice many posters are talking about bringing items for a beheading to the home. I don't believe this would be true. Didn't the sheriff in one of the first interviews say they were killed someplace else and then returned to where they were found?

John Albert Gardner is another one that I think of;

She knew he was a danger and never reported him. His Mother.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2010/Mar/22/relative-of-gardners-mother-comes-to-her-defense/

 

[Cardinal47]

Follow the money;

I would surely love to see the Dermonds financials. How they were invested and how much they lost during the two market crashes we are now recovering from.

If they lost big I wonder what Mr. did to recover those funds.

Did he invest or loan or back anybody to get maybe 5 - 10% return rather than the paltry .25% lots of seniors put their money in to be safe.

One quarted of one percent would not be appealing to a man that made big money his whole life.

Follow the money!

As you probably noticed I have two theories I can't decide upon.

A Sigg or Gardner person living in the community and the Dermonds were some kind of victims of circumstances.

Money

Which is it? I donno!!!!:banghead:

 

[Peppery]

I also think this is related somehow to money or maybe possessions. Perhaps the D's had very valuable antiques?

But do we know anything for sure about their current finances? The house is worth $1M now, but they didn't pay that much for it. Who's to say they lived within their means? They may have spent a lot supporting others, paying for education, buying houses/cars/expensive gifts for loved ones, traveling. Maybe they made unprofitable investments. Maybe they were being supported financially by someone else. I believe it was KD who said they were not wealthy, though it appeared that way. There are many reasons that they may or may not have had the money we are assuming they had. Just :moo:

 

[Bootsctr]

I had similar thoughts earlier in the case, especially before Mrs. D was found. I was surprised there was only her license photo used by much of the main stream media. Does anyone really look like their DL picture? Wouldn't several photos be more helpful? :moo:

There have been other pictures of Mrs. D other than the DL picture. In one she looks olde than the DL picture and she's wearing what looks to be a hat -such as one might wear at a birthday party. There's another of several people with Mr. Dermond sitting around and he too looks older (just my opinion). If you google images of Shirley Dermond and Russell Dermond you might be able to see those pictures and maybe some others rather than the DL pics. Would love to hear your opinion if they look older than the pics in the DL photos! :seeya:

BTW, I sorta look like Wildabeest's avatar in my DL photo. :floorlaugh:

 

[Bootsctr]

This is from an Examiner article dated May 25:

Lessons for Dermond investigators from Georgia killer Stephen McDaniel

"If the killer or killers responsible for the bizarre slaying of the elderly couple live in Georgia, then there is little doubt that they have heard of killer Stephen McDaniel, especially since he lived little more than an hour's drive away from the upscale golfing community of the victims, and since his case has garnered so much media attention this year given his bizarre crime and recent confession.

McDaniel murdered and dismembered Lauren Giddings, a fellow law student graduate from Mercer. But he didn't do it as a result of cult influence, as the Dermond's son Keith suggested in his parent's case. But in his confession about the dismemberment and decapitation crime, McDaniel shares details that could help the Dermond investigators, because he reveals how he used the victim's own bathtub to dismember her limbs and head from her torso before wrapping them in separate black trash bags and throwing the parts in two separate locations: the Mercer Law School Dumpster and the Barrister's Hall apartment's trashcans.

Due to a delayed trash pickup, the Lauren Giddings murder case caught a break, and police recovered victim remains, aiding them in their investigation and arrest of McDaniel. Likewise in the Shirley Dermond case, two fishermen happened upon Shirley Dermond's body floating in Lake Oconee, where her killer or killers hid it."


http://www.examiner.com/article/les...tigators-from-georgia-killer-stephen-mcdaniel

 

[Bootsctr]

I also think this is related somehow to money or maybe possessions. Perhaps the D's had very valuable antiques?

But do we know anything for sure about their current finances? The house is worth $1M now, but they didn't pay that much for it. Who's to say they lived within their means? They may have spent a lot supporting others, paying for education, buying houses/cars/expensive gifts for loved ones, traveling. Maybe they made unprofitable investments. Maybe they were being supported financially by someone else. I believe it was KD who said they were not wealthy, though it appeared that way. There are many reasons that they may or may not have had the money we are assuming they had. Just :moo:

:winner: :goodpost:

 

[Peppery]

There have been other pictures of Mrs. D other than the DL picture. In one she looks olde than the DL picture and she's wearing what looks to be a hat -such as one might wear at a birthday party. There's another of several people with Mr. Dermond sitting around and he too looks older (just my opinion). If you google images of Shirley Dermond and Russell Dermond you might be able to see those pictures and maybe some others rather than the DL pics. Would love to hear your opinion if they look older than the pics in the DL photos! :seeya:

BTW, I sorta look like Wildabeest's avatar in my DL photo. :floorlaugh:

I've seen the other photos, but her DL pictures was used far more than any of the others, IMO, especially on the billboards. I do think she appears much older in the birthday photo and DL photos can be extremely old. Some states allow you to renew by mail so the photo can be 10+ years old! I would have assumed someone would have taken photos with the D's at a recent family holiday gathering. I know my grandparents love to take pics with my kids whom they don't get to see often.

 

[Bootsctr]

snipped from the same article:

"But Russell Dermond's head is still missing. And if the killer or killers in this case followed Stephen McDaniel's case and learned from his MO, then Russell Dermond's missing remains could be somewhere besides the lake being searched. It could have been placed in a trash can or dumpster on the luxury property somewhere, and while it may already be at a trash dump site as a result; it may also still be on the 599 parcel property somewhere." http://www.examiner.com/article/les...tigators-from-georgia-killer-stephen-mcdaniel

I disagree with this article's author that the head could still be on the 599 parcel property or trash can or dumpster because I think the bloodhounds/cadavar dogs were brought in a and a proper search of the area was done - the dogs would have found the head. Still hoping Mr. Dermond's head is found very much. It's just not right to have your head taken.

 

[Bootsctr]

I've seen the other photos, but her DL pictures was used far more than any of the others, IMO, especially on the billboards. I do think she appears much older in the birthday photo and DL photos can be extremely old. Some states allow you to renew by mail so the photo can be 10+ years old! I would have assumed someone would have taken photos with the D's at a recent family holiday gathering. I know my grandparents love to take pics with my kids whom they don't get to see often.

I agree. Where are the more recent family photos? Maybe the daughter took some while she was there for the Easter holiday, but did not want them published if other family members who wish to remain anonymous were in the pictures. Just a thought!

 

[Cardinal47]

snipped from the same article:

"But Russell Dermond's head is still missing. And if the killer or killers in this case followed Stephen McDaniel's case and learned from his MO, then Russell Dermond's missing remains could be somewhere besides the lake being searched. It could have been placed in a trash can or dumpster on the luxury property somewhere, and while it may already be at a trash dump site as a result; it may also still be on the 599 parcel property somewhere." http://www.examiner.com/article/les...tigators-from-georgia-killer-stephen-mcdaniel

I disagree with this article's author that the head could still be on the 599 parcel property or trash can or dumpster because I think the bloodhounds/cadavar dogs were brought in a and a proper search of the area was done - the dogs would have found the head. Still hoping Mr. Dermond's head is found very much. It's just not right to have your head taken.

But don't you and others agree it surely keeps everybody on edge wondering where that head could possible be, when it will appear, if it's preserved for later tormenting.

Who does that affect? Community, family, LE and JQ Public. Somebody knew this would go on and on with the head missing.

I will bet you every boater on that lake this past holiday weekend was looking and thinking about Mr. D's head!

 

[Foxfire]

That's what bothers me too. To cut off the head of an old man...who does that. Then to take an old woman and sink her in the river so her family has to look for her...who does that?

Austin Sigg clone is the only answer I can come up with. I think one of them is living in that community and I also think those living with him have a suspicion but are afraid to speak up.

'The depraved murderer then bound the girl’s hands and feet with zip ties - a move he practiced before the kidnapping on his mother Mindy Sigg, the Denver Post reports. The killer’s mom also joked with friends about her son’s sick fascination with body decomposition, part of his bizarre fixation on mortuary science.'

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...ng10-year-old-article-1.1535599#ixzz32w2D6Fkv


Also I notice many posters are talking about bringing items for a beheading to the home. I don't believe this would be true. Didn't the sheriff in one of the first interviews say they were killed someplace else and then returned to where they were found?

John Albert Gardner is another one that I think of;

She knew he was a danger and never reported him. His Mother.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2010/Mar/22/relative-of-gardners-mother-comes-to-her-defense/

honeybun1807, two very good/excellent examples of the type of enabled creature/monster/person/s that are likely responsible for the Dermond's well planned abduction/murder/decapitation. Both of these creatures/psychopathic sexual predators mentioned began with a addiction during adolescence(age 14), and received therapy, yet were allowed to escalate from fantasy to the dark reality of the deviant behavior of preying on helpless unsuspecting innocent victims.. ,,with the exception of sexual predator/serial killer John Gardner, who met his match in one of his martial arts trained victims, who broke his nose and escaped his wrath. This more fortunate victim lived to testify against him at trial..

Gardner's mom was a trained psychiatric nurse, yet ignored the many signs of her own son's deviant behavioral traits and past acts, enabling him to kill again and again, imo;

Gardner Sentenced To 3 Life Terms - YouTube

 

[Vedder]

I also think this is related somehow to money or maybe possessions. Perhaps the D's had very valuable antiques?

But do we know anything for sure about their current finances? The house is worth $1M now, but they didn't pay that much for it. Who's to say they lived within their means? They may have spent a lot supporting others, paying for education, buying houses/cars/expensive gifts for loved ones, traveling. Maybe they made unprofitable investments. Maybe they were being supported financially by someone else. I believe it was KD who said they were not wealthy, though it appeared that way. There are many reasons that they may or may not have had the money we are assuming they had. Just :moo:

Yup. My BIL gives the impression he's loaded. Nice house (outside done beautifully), classic car, boat, Porsche, Harley - lots of toys. Kids in private school. Reality is the inside of the house is falling apart, but why fix that - the neighbors can't see it. SIL is sick over the bills they can't pay.

You just never know anyone's true financial picture.

 

[Bootsctr]

But don't you and others agree it surely keeps everybody on edge wondering where that head could possible be, when it will appear, if it's preserved for later tormenting.

Who does that affect? Community, family, LE and JQ Public. Somebody knew this would go on and on with the head missing.

I will bet you every boater on that lake this past holiday weekend was looking and thinking about Mr. D's head!

Yes, absolutely I would be on edge if I lived in the area. I mean I'd probably be seeing all sorts of things that I could imagine into being a head - thus Sheriff Sills and his comments regarding probably getting a lot of calls this holiday weekend and there would be someone there to check out any suspicious findings.

Earlier poster said she questioned some people at the lake if they were worried and she said they weren't worried at all. . . . I don't understand that at all. Kind of like maybe they're sticking their heads in the sand.

Until the head is found, I think the people closest to this case will be affected negatively. Maybe the perp did take the head for self-preservation, "I'll give up the head if you take the death penalty off the table." ?? No clue. Dahmer kept his victims' body parts because he couldn't bear to part with them. I really don't think this is the type of perp we are dealing with in the Dermonds' case though.

 

[Bootsctr]

Here's another profiler's opinion of the Dermonds' murders and Mr. Dermond's decapitation:

"The person who killed and dismembered Russell may or may not have known the couple -- but they were comfortable with the perp nonetheless. This could be either someone they knew, or someone they allowed into their home under false pretenses.

If this is someone unknown to them and yet there were no signs of a struggle, then it's hard to speculate that this would be an isolated incident. People who brazenly enter homes and commit these vile acts aren't just "one hit wonders." They tend to target more victims. They are, or become, serial killers.

On the other hand, we could all very well be prematurely assuming that there is a violent madman roaming the streets of Georgia, claiming helpless elderly victims -- or anyone by random at that. Have the police stopped to question whether or not Shirley Dermond herself could be involved in what happened? It's a horrific thing to consider, but this is something that good investigators should examine and eliminate as necessary."

http://www.*********.com/contribute...date-did-serial-killer-prey-on-elderly-couple

 

[Peppery]

I agree. Where are the more recent family photos? Maybe the daughter took some while she was there for the Easter holiday, but did not want them published if other family members who wish to remain anonymous were in the pictures. Just a thought!

I would agree, BUT were talking about finding a kidnapped elderly grandmother after her husband was brutally murdered. Other people are easily cropped out or faces can be blocked out. I would think the most recent, accurate photos would be most helpful in any missing persons case. :twocents:

 

[Peppery]

My opinion is swaying to the motive being something that doesn't make any sense to us. Something minor or trivial, clearly not logical or obvious. I connect the elderly with children in my mind, insofar as murder motives. You occasionally hear of children murdered for having a potty accident, or spilling their drink or other benign offenses. The motive for this crime is likely to be as minor, IMO.

 

[jggordo]

Is GA a state where once a will is filed in Probate Court it becomes public record? I am sure LE has checked their banking and investment firm(s) for TOD's and POD's and life insurance policies.

JMO's

 

[Foxfire]

Yes, absolutely I would be on edge if I lived in the area. I mean I'd probably be seeing all sorts of things that I could imagine into being a head - thus Sheriff Sills and his comments regarding probably getting a lot of calls this holiday weekend and there would be someone there to check out any suspicious findings.

Earlier poster said she questioned some people at the lake if they were worried and she said they weren't worried at all. . . . I don't understand that at all. Kind of like maybe they're sticking their heads in the sand.

Until the head is found, I think the people closest to this case will be affected negatively. Maybe the perp did take the head for self-preservation, "I'll give up the head if you take the death penalty off the table." ?? No clue. Dahmer kept his victims' body parts because he couldn't bear to part with them. I really don't think this is the type of perp we are dealing with in the Dermonds' case though.

<respectfully BBM for Focus>

RE: RP & GW Community; 'No Worries'..

JMO, After the Meredith Hope Emerson abduction/murder/decapitation my community was initially in a state of shock. The ms media in conjunction with local/state LEAs and local Churches attempted to minimize the dark reality of the tragedy, imo.
The following Sunday, I attended the Church with the largest congregation of locals; Appalachians and gated community members. The theme of the Pastor's sermon was; 'Rumors and Speculation'. The motive for this sermon theme was to quell the community's fears and convince them that the horrific crime was only an anomaly and could not happen to them..imo

After the service was over, I approached the Pastor and told him, "It is not Rumor, nor is it Speculation"!

Ironically, a deacon from this church had given serial killer Gary M. Hilton, a love offering of $50.00 for food and gas only days before MHE's abduction..

 

[Cardinal47]

Just reading along and I started thinking.

If the Sheriff thought this was some threat to the community wouldn't there be warnings out to the community at large???

 

[Bootsctr]

honeybun1807, two very good/excellent examples of the type of enabled creature/monster/person/s that are likely responsible for the Dermond's well planned abduction/murder/decapitation. Both of these creatures/psychopathic sexual predators mentioned began with a addiction during adolescence(age 14), and received therapy, yet were allowed to escalate from fantasy to the dark reality of the deviant behavior of preying on helpless unsuspecting innocent victims.. ,,with the exception of sexual predator/serial killer John Gardner, who met his match in one of his martial arts trained victims, who broke his nose and escaped his wrath.

Gardner's mom was a trained psychiatric nurse, yet ignored the many signs of her own son's deviant behavioral traits and past acts, enabling him to kill again and again, imo;

Thank you for posting this Foxfire! Gardner was one scary man. I'm glad he was caught. Remember watching the video of when they were searching for Chelsea King and found her shoe (IIRC). Very sad. It did at least bring some closure to Amber Dubois's family too. I don't understand mothers who protect their children who are killers. You can still love them, but to be part of an obstruction of justice to those who are killed is unforgiveable.