GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 9

[atthelake]

Alrighty then...Here we are, another day, and no news. The facts are few, and the suspects, none. The only thing I see that could possibly jump start this investigation, is to greatly increase the reward. :twocents:

IMHO

I respectfully disagree.

as i understand ...it is to lead to the arrest *and* a conviction in these types of circumstances. the person who tries to take the reward at the end would have to go from beginning to end in public view. That would be a very big risk if they started it ..and would not be able to finish it and put them away... or else that somebody will come back after them if they were arrested but not convicted and put away. and even then we know that arms can reach out through the jail to get people outside who has crossed some people.

many people value their lives and safety vs having money ...paltry monies even though many think it is a large amount. :Moo:

ETA - 21 foot down sounding good this weekend my friends iykwim :blowkiss:

 

[atthelake]

Absolutely Backwoods! I don't want to encourage anyone to break WS TOS and I don't want Zuri in trouble. Thank you for the reminder. Sooooooo frustrated there have been no breaks in this case, as is everyone else....

The family was involved in restaurant franchises and real estate. I can only imagine that the beheading was a message to the family and someone they had dealings with and that person came out of the deal with the short end of the stick.

If Zuri gets into trouble we'll take a 3day vacay to our common friends house for a beach holiday in Florida and travel the beaches in a Bentley lol. What say you Zuri lol . :giggle:

I agree with the "sending a message"



Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

 

[Suthrnqt]

I'm going to re-open the thread. You'll notice posts referencing a particular cult have been removed. That topic is OFF LIMITS in the Dermonds' threads. LE has given absolutely no indication that the murders were the work of cultists. In fact, Sheriff Sills made a statement to the contrary, iirc.

If you'd like to continue a discussion of the NC, I'll open a thread in the Parking Lot for that purpose.

Thanks.



ETA: Link to new thread in the Parking Lot to discuss the Nuwaubian Cult

The Dermond discussion remains in this thread, and should not carry over into the NC thread. If it does, then the NC thread will be closed permanently, and the Dermond thread closed until LE issues another press release.

Thank you so much for this decision.
:loveyou:

 

[southernmimi]

If only I could answer your questions, Montjoy, this murder would be solved. I have no idea to whom the message was sent nor why. We can only hope SS is diligently working on answers and will provide them for us.

 

[Happyshoes]

<modsnip

<modsnip>


We can say "send a message" (but TO WHOM?), to hide evidence (this makes the most sense to me), or "trophy" and I only used that term because if it was a druggie meth head who was 100% crazy, delusion, desperate, and young, I can see that.
Does anyone think it's possible there were 2 perps and that they were going to take both bodies to the lake but quit after they loaded Mrs. D, said forget about Mr. D? They were chosen for a reason and I think it's because somebody thought they had money in the house or possibly a safe with money and guns. I just can't go for the highly planned, organized, night goggles, super mission - the only thing that might change my mind is if they find money involved that changed hands from Point A to Point B.
Pardon my stubbornness, I'm a Taurus, haha.

 

[Abelia]

Hi Montjoy, I'd like to hear your theory from start to finish. If you think Mr. D's head was removed to conceal evidence, are you thinking it was a small caliber gun and the bullet lodged in his head and he was killed somewhere outside his home so no blood spatter to be found? Or he was killed elsewhere and returned to his garage? What about Mrs. D. Why not shoot her and remove her head as well, rather than transporting her body that far out into the lake risking a chance encounter. If they though her body would not be discovered, why would they not do the same with Mr. D's? What type of theft are you thinking? Again, I'm not trying to provoke an argument, just curious. I've read bits and pieces of your thought's, just not seen them in their entirety.

 

[Zuri]

If Zuri gets into trouble we'll take a 3day vacay to our common friends house for a beach holiday in Florida and travel the beaches in a Bentley lol. What say you Zuri lol . :giggle:

I agree with the "sending a message"



Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

LOL ATL! You are family after all. Perhaps a golfing excursion?

 

[Happyshoes]

Yes, it's easier to ask questions (we could do that all day and we have), but put a theory forward. It makes for more interesting thoughts to share. I don't mind saying what I think, and I'll eat my humble pie if I have to. Where's Ocean Blue Eyes? She was somewhat on the same train of thought as me early on. This has to be one of the most frustrating cases for all of us who like to see justice served. First of all, just knowing the WHO is so awful, the HOW - 2 different ways, and heinous - it's all hard to wrap your mind around. I can't get an answer from someone (local - LO or ATL?) who thinks the perp(s) arrived by car and left by boat? I think it's possible they came and left by boat and didn't have a gun. What are the odds a bullet would stay in a head if shot? I admit to knowing nothing on that subject. Someone on here once said Mr. D could have been shot with a shotgun; therefore, no head left to take..? What other evidence could be hidden in a head if not a bullet or shotgun? Could a gun have been used and nobody heard it? Here I go all over the place again.

 

[Foxfire]

Bumping articles as food for thought;

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/lake-oconee-man-killed-87-year-old-wife-possibly-k/nfqqR/ <video/article>
update May 8, 2014 - , May 7, 2014

Police baffled by Lake Oconee man&#8217;s death, missing wife

The death of Russell Dermond and the disappearance of his wife Shirley has baffled Putnam County investigators.
&#8220;I&#8217;ve worked a lot of murders and this is the strangest one I&#8217;ve ever worked,&#8221; said Sheriff Howard Sills.
&#8220;I do not believe this to be a random attack and I base that on several things,&#8221; Sills said. &#8220;No evidence of forced entry or struggle or things like that.&#8221;
Surveillance cameras in the community were not working, he said, and police are seeking any surveillance images from any nearby cameras.
<sniped - read more>
_______________________________

My take from the WSB TV 2 video; Sheriff Sills compares the shocking Dermond abduction/murders/decapitation to the perfect storm for detectives.

* No evidence or clues
* No valuables missing
* No forced entry
* Cell phones and car keys present
* No signs of struggle
* Nothing is clear

SS said that it doesn't lead him to believe that this is some kind of random act, but anything is possible.

_____________________________________

http://www.13wmaz.com/story/news/lo...utnam-sheriff-sills-murder-interview/8816001/
The sheriff says Russell Dermond's death in his $1 million lakefront home was targeted and not a random crime.
On whether neighbors should be worried: "This is certainly, I think, an isolated incident. This neighborhood is crime-free. ... I don't think it was random."
_____________________________________
OT - Interesting read> February 16th, 2013
A Letter From Putnam County, Georgia, Sheriff Howard Sills

Dear Senator Chambliss,
I write you today at a point in my life where I have grave concerns about the future of our nation. Come this April, I will begin my 40th year in the field of public safety. I have been very fortunate in my career to have worked in almost every aspect of law enforcement, both in rural and urban areas, along with a stint in corporate security for one of the largest banks in the country. I have just been reelected to my fifth term of office, and I serve as the Director of my county&#8217;s Emergency Management Agency. I am also the President of the Georgia Sheriffs&#8217; Association, but this letter is written from me individually as the Sheriff of Putnam County and in my capacity as an American citizen.

The recent incident where children and staff were murdered by a deranged individual at the school in Newtown, Connecticut and the many similar incidents that have occurred in the past are horrific tragedies, and they most assuredly warrant measures and policies to prevent such acts in the future. While I may have never had personal experience with an incident of mass murder, I have unfortunately responded to and investigated untold numbers of assaults and murders during my long career. <sniped - Read more> http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2013/02/16/a-letter-from-putnam-county-georgia-sheriff-howard-sills/
_______________________________________

&#8226; the time period between murders separates serial murder from mass murder
http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder

 

[marble]

I'm confused about your link to the letter and its bolded parts on the Oathkeepers site- are you saying that Sills had indeed experienced serial murder but not mass murder when he wrote the letter?

Here's what the Southern Poverty Law Center has to say about The Oathkeepers, I'm surprised Sills would affiliate himself with them TBH: http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2013/07/25/oath-keepers-rally-reveals-radical-politics-of-group/

 

[Abelia]

.... I can't get an answer from someone (local - LO or ATL?) who thinks the perp(s) arrived by car and left by boat? I think it's possible they came and left by boat and didn't have a gun. What are the odds a bullet would stay in a head if shot? I admit to knowing nothing on that subject. Someone on here once said Mr. D could have been shot with a shotgun; therefore, no head left to take..? What other evidence could be hidden in a head if not a bullet or shotgun? Could a gun have been used and nobody heard it? Here I go all over the place again.

I know next to nothing about guns, but asked my husband. He said a small caliber bullet would make a small entrance wound and very easily stay inside the head, leaving next to no blood evident. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe SS said he did not know exactly where Mr. D. had been killed, only that he was moved a little in the garage. If he were killed with a shotgun anywhere on the property they searched, they would know the exact site. There would be obvious insect activity, flies etc. present on the blood and brain matter, not to mention bone fragments, that would not have been washed completely away by rain (sorry for being so graphic). I forget, did it rain between the estimated time of death and their discovery?

 

[Foxfire]

I'm confused about your link to the letter and its bolded parts on the Oathkeepers site- are you saying that Sills had indeed experienced serial murder but not mass murder when he wrote the letter?

Here's what the Southern Poverty Law Center has to say about The Oathkeepers, I'm surprised Sills would affiliate himself with them TBH: http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2013/07/25/oath-keepers-rally-reveals-radical-politics-of-group/

No, Sheriff Sills had neither experienced serial or mass murder before the Dermond murders occurred. The ole saying; 'never ever say never came to mind'.. Virtually one year after the letter to Senator Chambliss, Sheriff Sills, can no longer make this statement.

I posted the snipet from the linked FBI's Serial Murder Symposium; &#8226; the time period between murders separates serial murder from mass murder, to verify that SS has now experienced a mass murder under his watch..


marble, the Oathkeepers have nothing to do with Sheriff Howard Sills' letter to Senator Chambliss, except as a means of communication...I never shoot the messenger..
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

&#8220;Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see.&#8221; Quote by Dr Martin L. King

 

[Foxfire]

http://www.13wmaz.com/story/news/local/hancock/2014/05/19/oconee-lake-search-on-hold-monday/9283659/
<sniped for Focus>
Meanwhile, Coroner Gary McElhenney says Shirley Dermond's body was so badly decomposed, it was hard to tell if there's bruising or signs of struggle. He said a medical examiner ruled out stabbing or bullet wounds.

_______________________________________________

http://www.13wmaz.com/story/news/local/hancock/2014/05/09/putnam-murder-autopsy-report/8893493/
<sniped for Focus>

Putnam County Coroner Gary McElhenney says Russell Dermond died from cranial cerebral trauma. That is the official cause of death listed on the autopsy.

Friday morning McElhenney told 13WMAZ's Anita Oh, cranial cerebral trauma means the cause of death was some sort of wound to the head, but they won't know exactly what until they find the head. McElhenney says that hasn't happened yet.

Dermond's body did not have any gunshot wounds, stab wounds, or bruising. The coroner says there was no indication of a struggle.

The blood splatter at the murder scene confirms that Dermond was beheaded after his death. McElhenney says there would have been more blood if the beheading had happened while Dermond was still alive.
______________________________

On the video the coroner stated that COD could be gunshot, blunt force trauma, but due to the head missing, he couldn't tell. He said that if the head is retrieved and a different COD is concluded, he will change the death certificate. A lot of conflicting statements in his report and what the journalist is reporting, imo..

 

[Vedder]

No, Sheriff Sills had neither experienced serial or mass murder before the Dermond murders occurred. The ole saying; 'never ever say never came to mind'.. Virtually one year after the letter to Senator Chambliss, Sheriff Sills, can no longer make this statement.

I posted the snipet from the linked FBI's Serial Murder Symposium; &#8226; the time period between murders separates serial murder from mass murder, to verify that SS has now experienced a mass murder under his watch..

I'm not seeing how the Dermonds could be considered a mass murder. Is it because the bodies weren't found at the same time?

 

[Montjoy]

I'm not seeing how the Dermonds could be considered a mass murder. Is it because the bodies weren't found at the same time?

That's because it isn't a mass murder. The FBI's definition of a mass murder is the killing of 4 or more people at one location (to distinguish it from a spree killing) without a cooling down period (to distinguish it from a serial killing).

 

[Montjoy]

Hi Montjoy, I'd like to hear your theory from start to finish.

To be honest, there are still too many gaps to string together a compelling narrative of how it happened. If I had to guess, they were targeted for the purpose of a theft/home invasion. Perhaps they were not even the intended targets; if, as has been suggested, the perp(s) came by boat, it might be easy to mistake an address. I think that whoever the perps were, they likely believed that there was something of value in the house, perhaps a safe, perhaps pharmaceuticals. I could imagine that when Mr. Dermond would not or could not reveal where the valuables were, a gun was held to his head to get Mrs. Dermond to give up the information. Perhaps he resisted and was shot (which may not have been part of the initial plan). Perhaps concerned about ballistic evidence, the perp or perps decided to behead him to remove the risk. Then, Mrs. Dermond was killed to remove a witness, and put in the lake to remove as much forensic evidence as possible.

As for whatever mess was made at the house by the presumed shooting and beheading, we really don't know what LE did or did not find there. It could have been a bloody mess. I guess I'm just saying that there are many reasons why someone might be beheaded that have nothing to do with 'sending a message'. If they wanted to send a message, why not behead both? Why take the head at all? Beheadings do happen in the course of murders, but other than in organized crime/drug cartels (and there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that the Dermonds had any involvement with either), I've never heard of one being done to 'send a message'.

 

[Canaille]

I have nothing to back this up with, but, for some reason I keep thinking that the decapitation was removing the head of the family. Like, someone saying, "I can't do this or that because he's the head of the family... he's in charge..."

I did a Google advanced search with the exact phrase "remove the head of the family". This is the results that I got... some are crazy and some are interesting.

https://www.google.com/search?as_q=&as_epq=remove+the+head+of+the+family&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=&as_occt=any&safe=images&tbs=&as_filetype=&as_rights=&gws_rd=ssl

 

[Bootsctr]

I think it is possible there were as many as 3 perps, 2 assassins and a cleaner. A woman too perhaps.

 

[Foxfire]

I'm not seeing how the Dermonds could be considered a mass murder. Is it because the bodies weren't found at the same time?

That's because it isn't a mass murder. The FBI's definition of a mass murder is the killing of 4 or more people at one location (to distinguish it from a spree killing) without a cooling down period (to distinguish it from a serial killing).

In an effort to bridge the gap between the many views of issues related to serial murder, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) hosted a multi-disciplinary Symposium in San Antonio, Texas, on August 29, 2005 through September 2, 2005

The Symposium attendees reviewed the previous definitions and extensively discussed the pros and cons of the numerous variations. The consensus of the Symposium attendees was to create a simple but broad definition, designed for use primarily by law enforcement.

One discussion topic focused on the determination of the number of murders that constituted a serial murder. Academicians and researchers were interested in establishing a specific number of murders, to allow clear inclusion criteria for their research on serial killers. However, since the definition was to be utilized by law enforcement, a lower number of victims would allow law enforcement more flexibility in committing resources to a potential serial murder investigation.

Motivation was another central element discussed in various definitions; however, attendees felt motivation did not belong in a general definition, as it would make the definition overly complex.

The validity of spree murder as a separate category was discussed at great length. The general definition of spree murder is two or more murders committed by an offender or offenders, without a cooling-off period. According to the definition, the lack of a cooling-off period marks the difference between a spree murder and a serial murder. Central to the discussion was the definitional problems relating to the concept of a cooling-off period. Because it creates arbitrary guidelines, the confusion surrounding this concept led the majority of attendees to advocate disregarding the use of spree murder as a separate category. The designation does not provide any real benefit for use by law enforcement.

The different discussion groups at the Symposium agreed on a number of similar factors to be included in a definition. These included:

&#8226; one or more offenders
&#8226; two or more murdered victims
&#8226; incidents should be occurring in separate events, at different times
&#8226; the time period between murders separates serial murder from mass murder

In combining the various ideas put forth at the Symposium, the following definition was crafted:

Serial Murder: The unlawful killing of two or more victims by the same offender(s), in separate events.

 

[Montjoy]

"According to the FBI, mass murder is defined as four or more murders occurring during a particular event with no cooling-off period between the murders."

https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Mass_murder.html

So, the murder of the Dermonds would not be considered as a mass murder.