Gene Hackman dead at 95: Iconic actor and wife, 63, are found dead with their dog at Santa Fe home.

[friendlysleuther]

They weren't found by neighbors. They were maintenance men.

I have dogs, I also live in a high desert like GH and his wife. I have large bins of water auto filled. The dogs know where the main stash of food is. Just in case.

Doesn't scream coverup to me.

Ah you're right, thank you I will fix my post !

 

[whitelilac]

IMO, I can't imagine 2 people falling to their death at the same time

maybe they didn't.
Betsy may have had a medical emergency, and for all we know, Gene may have collapsed from a heart attack some time after.
Or, IF CO was involved, they didn't necessarily collapse at the same time.

 

[NuttMegg]

IMO, I can't imagine 2 people falling to their death at the same time

No one knows that it was at the same time.

 

[friendlysleuther]

They weren't found by neighbors. They were maintenance men.

I have dogs, I also live in a high desert like GH and his wife. I have large bins of water auto filled. The dogs know where the main stash of food is. Just in case.

Doesn't scream coverup to me.

I dont know.. I mean, it was enough for them to get a search warrant. I would assume a medical examiner/coroner/pathologist has already looked at them (potentially awaiting tox. reports, I guess?) since they stated "There are no immediate signs or indications of blunt force trauma." Which, IMO, is most likely a determination that someone in the medical field would make.. Plus, you have them saying they need these things to determine the cause & manner of death.. Again, [IMO] leading me to believe they have already been looked at by a medical professional who's most-likely stumped.

maybe they didn't
Betsy may have had a medical emergency, and for all we know, Gene may have collapsed from a heart attack some time after.
Or, IF CO was involved, they didn't necessarily collapse at the same time.

But, didn't they have similar signs of decomp?... Hard for me to believe 1 died and the other didn't know, or call 911 or.. anything?

 

[friendlysleuther]

No one knows that it was at the same time.

"Deputy Thomas advised the female decedent showed obvious signs of death, body decomposition, bloating in her face and mumification in both hands and feet."

"Deputy Thomas advised the male decedent also showed obvious signs of death, similar and consistent with the female decedent."

AFFIDAVIT

 

[whitelilac]

I dont know.. I mean, it was enough for them to get a search warrant. I would assume a medical examiner/coroner/pathologist has already looked at them (potentially awaiting tox. reports, I guess?) since they stated "There are no immediate signs or indications of blunt force trauma." Which, IMO, is most likely a determination that someone in the medical field would make.. Plus, you have them saying they need these things to determine the cause & manner of death.. Again, [IMO] leading me to believe they have already been looked at by a medical professional who's most-likely stumped.

But, didn't they have similar signs of decomp?... Hard for me to believe 1 died and the other didn't know, or call 911 or.. anything?

It was stated that Betsy was in a more advanced state of decomposition.
As for Gene, he was 95, and likly even more frail than those last pictures of him when they went out. We don't know his state of mind, level of confusion, or even if he had a phone nearby. Maybe he DID discover Betsy died (If she died first), and the stress and shock may have led to a heart attack.

 

[friendlysleuther]

It was stated that Betsy was in a more advanced state of decomposition.
As for Gene, he was 95, and likly even more frail than those last pictures of him when they went out. We don't know his state of mind, level of confusion, or even if he had a phone nearby. Maybe he DID discover Betsy died (If she died first), and the stress and shock may have led to a heart attack.

Where did it say that? I posted directly from the affidavit that stated they both had similar and consistent signs of death and body decompisition

 

[ttjo]

Thank you, I thought I was going crazy for a bit there.

It gets confusing, even the no "Obvious" signs of a gas leak , had people saying they ruled out carbon monoxide and no signs of forced entry some interpreted as no foul play. Everyone interprets things differently. There is no way anyone will know until we get more info , autopsy results , tox. It's gonna be a long wait. In the meantime, we guess.

 

[NuttMegg]

I dont know.. I mean, it was enough for them to get a search warrant. I would assume a medical examiner/coroner/pathologist has already looked at them (potentially awaiting tox. reports, I guess?) since they stated "There are no immediate signs or indications of blunt force trauma." Which, IMO, is most likely a determination that someone in the medical field would make.. Plus, you have them saying they need these things to determine the cause & manner of death.. Again, [IMO] leading me to believe they have already been looked at by a medical professional who's most-likely stumped.

But, didn't they have similar signs of decomp?... Hard for me to believe 1 died and the other didn't know, or call 911 or.. anything?

Have you seen the frail state of GH...a YEAR ago in the last pic. ? It's posted a few pages back. For all we know he was going for his phone. A sharp fall in his state could have been immediately fatal.
SImilar signs of decomp does not mean they died at precisely the same minute.

 

[ttjo]

Have you seen the frail state of GH...a YEAR ago in the last pic. ? It's posted a few pages back. For all we know he was going for his phone. A sharp fall in his state could have been immediately fatal.
SImilar signs of decomp does not mean they died at precisely the same minute.

a fall like that, a broken hip perhaps? and couldnt get back up or reach for a phone. My dad had dementia, he fell trying to put his pants on, not very hard and broke his hip. Doesn't take much when you're 95.

 

[Charlot123]

First, IMHO, the dogs would be the first to succumb to CO poisoning. Due to a mutation in aryl-hydrocarbon-receptor gene, humans may be more resistant to products of incomplete combustion as opposed to animals. It has nothing to do with height, just physiology. Dogs would probably succumb first. Unless something led to the door being open so that they could run out.

Now, very old and infirm people are more sensitive to CO than younger and healthier ones. For some reason, I am not sure it was CO.

Nor do I believe that a 95-year-old man would have the capacity to commit suicide. It involves certain planning and energy. Doesn’t seem like Gene had it, judging by his last photo.

It is another thing that his wife, observing him slipping, might have developed “caregiver’s depression”. Sadness, genuine fear observing your partner getting so old and more dependent on you, loneliness, after all.

The worst situation could have happened if Ms. Arakawa herself got certain diagnosis that could potentially leave little hope. Then, the thinking pattern would have been about her husband and the favorite dog not coping alone.

While I can’t exclude some form of murder/suicide, it might have been a better way out. Mr. Hackman was still of limited mobility. I am sure that given their difference in age, such an outcome might have been discussed among them long before. From what I read about Gene, he wouldn’t have been constrained by strong belief.

RIP, Mr. Hackman and Ms. Arakawa. Gene was an amazing actor. Talented, but also funny and witty. He was so popular. He chose good movies. He disappeared from the screen quietly. He lived twenty more years, wrote books and as it seems, enjoyed life in New Mexico with his wife. He was a respected, decent man.

 

[whitelilac]

Where did it say that? I posted directly from the affidavit that stated they both had similar and consistent signs of death and body decompisition

It was stated in several MSM articles. "Consistent" and "similar" signs of death could mean they were both obviously deceased for some time. But then perhaps now things are more clarified as compared to first accounts.

 

[NuttMegg]

"Deputy Thomas advised the female decedent showed obvious signs of death, body decomposition, bloating in her face and mumification in both hands and feet."

"Deputy Thomas advised the male decedent also showed obvious signs of death, similar and consistent with the female decedent."

AFFIDAVIT

That doesn't contradict my post at all. I don't see how time of death can ever be proven.

 

[friendlysleuther]

First, IMHO, the dogs would be the first to succumb to CO poisoning. Due to a mutation in aryl-hydrocarbon-receptor gene, humans may be more resistant to products of incomplete combustion as opposed to animals. It has nothing to do with height, just physiology. Dogs would probably succumb first. Unless something led to the door being open so that they could run out.

Now, very old and infirm people are more sensitive to CO than younger and healthier ones. For some reason, I am not sure it was CO.

Yes, I find it hard to believe that 1 dog dies from carbon monoxide poisoning and not the other 2.

It is another thing that his wife, observing him slipping, might have developed “caregiver’s depression”. Sadness, genuine fear observing your partner getting so old and more dependent on you, loneliness, after all.

The worst situation could have happened if Ms. Arakawa herself got certain diagnosis that could potentially leave little hope. Then, the thinking pattern would have been about her husband and the favorite dog not coping alone.

This ^ is, also, my 'best guess' as to what happened.

 

[NuttMegg]

a fall like that, a broken hip perhaps?

Or ribs or anything. I'd guess heart attack at the horror of it all.

 

[friendlysleuther]

That doesn't contradict my post at all. I don't see how time of death can ever be proven.

Well, when they have similar and consistent signs of death and decomposition-- I'm led to believe that someone wasn't in the home for hours, days, weeks, etc, while the other was lying dead in the other room.

Exact time of death? No. But, I don't think that they died very far apart from one another. Nothing says otherwise.

 

[ttjo]

Or ribs or anything. I'd guess heart attack at the horror of it all.

absolute horror, if you can't move, or reach for a phone or call for help.

 

[NuttMegg]

a fall like that, a broken hip perhaps?

They can detect broken bones easily enough. And February is the dry season for Santa Fe, thus the mummification. Their insides are probably well preserved, imo

 

[friendlysleuther]

a fall like that, a broken hip perhaps?

When elderly people fall and die, it's usually due to a brain bleed (intracranial hemorrhage) or hematoma.
But, yes, you may also see things like a skull fracture, broken rib(s), broken hip, etc-

However, I would assume, a medical professional has already looked into these things-- Hence, the need for a search warrant to help determine the cause and manner of deaths.

 

[whitelilac]

Personally I do not believe there was a suicide pact or such, because I would think it would be arranged to die together, perhaps while in bed or some favorite spot. Certainly not with one in the bathroom having knocked over a heater and bottle of pills, and the other in the mudroom with his sunglasses and cane.

It's so sad....I feel so sorry for what happened to them both and the dog.