Gene Hackman dead at 95: Iconic actor and wife, 63, are found dead with their dog at Santa Fe home.

[IceIce9]

IMO, (as i have discussed earlier) -- I think this may be more of a case of poisoning via food rather than carbon monoxide.

if it was food poisoning it is likely there would be signs that investigators would find and the autopsy would reveal.

 

[friendlysleuther]

if it was food poisoning it is likely there would be signs that investigators would find and the autopsy would reveal.

Yes, something like this just takes time-- Same for if it was carbon monoxide poisoning (intentional, or unintentional)

The woman who poisoned her family members over christmas, where 3 of them were found deceased after eating the Christmas cake-- It took them a month to arrest her.

 

[Fabled Automatic]

A couple things I'm wondering about.

A man who described himself as a caretaker of the subdivision called 911 to report the bodies, according to the call audio. He said that the door was locked and that he could not go inside, but that he saw them through the window and they were not moving.

Two maintenance workers said they found the couple’s front door ajar when they went to check on the residence, according to the affidavit.

So, the caretaker was the 911 caller. He stated the door was locked.

Two maintenance workers stated the door (assuming it's the same door) was ajar.

Who was at the house first, and if it was the maintenance workers, why didn't they phone police if the bodies were in plain view?

If they were there after the caretaker, why was the door now open?

A space heater was near her head, and an opened prescription bottle was on the counter with pills “scattered on the counter-top.” It was not immediately clear what kind of pills they were.

The deputies suspected "the heater could have fallen in the event the female abruptly fell to the ground."

an autopsy found no external trauma to either Hackman or Arakawa

I would imagine that a person falling and knocking over a space heater would leave some sort of mark or damage to the body, but I suppose it's possible not to.

Both bodies showed "obvious signs of death," according to the affidavit. Arakawa's also showed signs of "body decomposition."

Is the "also" in that statement indicating that Betsy's body showed more decomposition than Gene's, possibly implying she died before him?

edit: 911 not 9/11

Source

 

[Sunshynn]

"When Deputy Thomas and Barron arrived, Deputy Thomas indicated he spoke to two individuals(one of which was the reporting party) who found and located the front door of the residence to be opened/ajar."

Were all the dogs German Shepherds?
Could they have, possibly, made the door go open slightly from entering and exiting the doggy door a lot?
If Gene and Betsy were deceased for, what could be, 2 weeks - I would imagine that the dogs would have a lot of fear, confusion, etc.
Would that be possible?

 

[mickey2942]

Dang CO and smoke alarm detectors, hate them with a passion when they go "wonky" and go off for some reason. But Daylight Saving coming up, and this tragedy, if it was CO cause of death...I checked mine yesterday. Replaced batteries, tested it.

Good to go. Check yours today.

 

[NuttMegg]

Yes...
"When Deputy Thomas and Barron arrived, Deputy Thomas indicated he spoke to two individuals(one of which was the reporting party) who found and located the front door of the residence to be opened/ajar."

"Deputy Thomas told Affiant after speaking to the two males he and Deputy Barron then walkedto the front of the residence and found the front door ajar. He advised he did not observe anysigns of forced entry into the home."

"(...) the reporting party found the front door of the residence unsecured and opened"
AFFIDAVIT

Thanks, I thought the 911 call said front door closed and secured. Has anyone seen a drawing of where the bodies were in relation to the front door? I know he was in a mud room, and she was in a (bathroom?) With a counter, heater, pills etc.
And the dog in the kennel/closet was 10-15' away from BA.
I would like to see this sketch, if anyone runs across it.

 

[Fabled Automatic]

Yes...
"When Deputy Thomas and Barron arrived, Deputy Thomas indicated he spoke to two individuals(one of which was the reporting party) who found and located the front door of the residence to be opened/ajar."

"Deputy Thomas told Affiant after speaking to the two males he and Deputy Barron then walked to the front of the residence and found the front door ajar. He advised he did not observe any signs of forced entry into the home."

"(...) the reporting party found the front door of the residence unsecured and opened"
AFFIDAVIT

Yet the 911 caller reported that the door was locked?

edit: 911 not 9/11

 

[Sunshynn]

Thanks, I thought the 911 call said front door closed and secured. Has anyone seen a drawing of where the bodies were in relation to the front door? I know he was in a mud room, and she was in a (bathroom?) With a counter, heater, pills etc.

I haven't seen a sketch, but the search warrant states that the bathroom was just to the left of the front door.

Read the Search Warrant Affidavit in the Gene Hackman Death Inquiry

An affidavit from a Santa Fe County detective described how deputies found the bodies of Gene Hackman and his wife, Betsy Arakawa, on Wednesday.

www.nytimes.com

 

[friendlysleuther]

So, the caretaker was the 9/11 caller. He stated the door was locked.

Two maintenance workers stated the door (assuming it's the same door) was ajar.

[1 + 2] Sounds like this was the security (911 Caller), not maintenance workers.

Who was at the house first, and if it was the maintenance workers, why didn't they phone police if the bodies were in plain view?

If they were there after the caretaker, why was the door now open?

[1 + 2] Not care takers, rather, 1 maintenance worker- Who called security.

Is the "also" in that statement indicating that Betsy's body showed more decomposition than Gene's, possibly implying she died before him?

• "Deputy Thomas advised the female decedent showed obvious signs of death, bodydecomposition, bloating in her face and mummification in both hands and feet."
• "Deputy Thomas advised the male decedent also showed obvious signs of death, similar andconsistent with the female decedent."

[SOURCE/ AFFIDAVIT]
______________

• [1] An individual arrived to perform maintenance on the residence, became concerned after receiving no answer, and contacted neighborhood security to conduct a welfare check. Security then checked on the residence and observed Hackman and Arakawa on the ground unresponsive through a window and called 911.

[SOURCE/ PRESS RELEASE]

• [2] When Deputy Thomas and Barron arrived, Deputy Thomas indicated he spoke to two individuals (one of which was the reporting party) who found and located the front door of the residence( ) to be opened/ajar. Deputy Thomas identified the reporting party (RP) to be a male named Roland Lowe Begay ( /65). Roland advised he works as maintenance worker for a company called “Hoam Company.” The other maintenance worker was identified as JesseKesler (72.)

[SOURCE/ AFFIDAVIT]

 

[Quill]

I don't have a doggy door, but could they mean when they say that the door was 'unsecured and open' that the doggy door was accessible.
Is there even a way to 'lock' a doggy door?

There are models that can be locked and there are models that have a sensor that unlocks it with a signal from a dog collar.

 

[friendlysleuther]

There are models that can be locked and there are models that have a sensor that unlocks it with a signal from a dog collar.

I haven't seen anything discussing a doggy door..

 

[Sunshynn]

I haven't seen anything discussing a doggy door..

I don't know.
I was just going by what I had read that others had said there was a doggy door.
I assume that it was because there were two other dogs and one was located in the house next to Betsy's body (alive) and there was another 'on the property'.
MOO.

 

[tree1]

Yes...
"When Deputy Thomas and Barron arrived, Deputy Thomas indicated he spoke to two individuals(one of which was the reporting party) who found and located the front door of the residence to be opened/ajar."

"Deputy Thomas told Affiant after speaking to the two males he and Deputy Barron then walked to the front of the residence and found the front door ajar. He advised he did not observe any signs of forced entry into the home."

"(...) the reporting party found the front door of the residence unsecured and opened"
AFFIDAVIT

Yet according to the 911 call the maintenance man said couldnt get in. I will find the source

 

[slowpoke]

I haven't seen anything discussing a doggy door..

“But two other dogs were found alive, and it appeared they had access to a doggy door, the sheriff said.”

Gene Hackman, wife and dog found dead in home under 'suspicious' circumstances; 2 other dogs found alive

The couple was found during a welfare check after their neighbor called in concerned about their well-being.

abcnews.go.com

 

[NuttMegg]

911 operator: are they breathing?

Caretaker: I have no idea, I'm not in the house. It's closed and (locked?)

1:20 timestamp

Gene Hackman 911 Caller Emotional on Phone, Says He Can't See Anyone Moving

Gene Hackman and his wife were inside their home, not moving ... and the sight of them got the 911 caller very emotional, TMZ has learned.

www.tmz.com

 

[Quill]

Yeah, we discussed this a lot last night--

Carbon Monoxide Poisoning- What doesn't add-up

• 2 dogs to be alive and only 1 deceased: Carbon Monoxide Poisoning Affects All Living Beings the Same Way

Testing

• Deputy Thomas and Det. Joel Cano advised Santa Fe City Fire Department responded to the location and conducted testing to determine if there were signs of a possible carbon monoxide leak (or poisoning). He advised the fire department did not locate signs of a carbon monoxide leak or poisoning.
• New Mexico Gas Company responded the residence and was conducting active testing on the gas line in and around the residence. As of now, there are no signs or evidence indicating there were any problems associated to the pipes in and around the residence.

If it was Carbon Monoxide, they will determine this with the autopsy. However, IMO, highly unlikely.
AFFIDAVIT

Still... my point is about appliance malfunctioning or MIS-USE. Unless they did precise testing of each appliance, they may not have found a CO problem. I have personal knowledge of a hidden and insidious propane leak that was coming into a home. By the time it filtered through the soil and entered the home the odor additive was filtered out and it was odorless and undetectable to the home owners. It ended in a horrible tragedy. My point is there are many ways for a leak to go undetected in the typical pre-cursory inspections. You could have a CO problem just from a blocked or malfunctioning vent-a-hood over a powerful gas cooktop. I cook on one not as fancy as the one pictured upthread, but still has high powered burners. If I don't have my hood on you'll smell a fumes odor collecting way in my back hallway. Granted, my home is much smaller than the one discussed here, but still. Personal experience still has me thinking that they will inspect more thoroughly.

 

[tree1]

Yet according to the 911 call the maintenance man said couldnt get in. I will find the source

Police release 911 call of moment Gene Hackman and his wife were found dead

Hackman, 95, Arakawa, 65, and one of their pet dogs were found dead at their New Mexico home on Wednesday. Police say their deaths are "suspicious enough" to require an investigation.

news.sky.com

 

[Quill]

I haven't seen anything discussing a doggy door..

Gene Hackman, wife and dog found dead in home under 'suspicious' circumstances

Oscar-winner Gene Hackman, his wife and their dog were found dead in different rooms of their Santa Fe home, and they had been dead for some time, according to investigators.

abc7ny.com

"But two other dogs were found alive, and it appeared they had access to a doggy door, the sheriff said. One healthy dog was near Arakawa and the other was located outside, according to the search warrant."

 

[IQuestion]

I was wondering about a malfunctioning fireplace (not properly or insufficiently vented?) Once the fire burned out, there would be no sign of CO remaining as it slowly (or quickly) dissipated after the fuel was consumed?
I think discussion on CO danger is not counter productive or anything to dismiss considering the cold weather and elevation.
Yes, a fireplace can produce carbon monoxide (CO), a poisonous gas that can cause fatal poisoning. CO is also known as the "silent killer" because it's odorless, colorless, and tasteless.

How CO can occur

• Improper maintenance: A damaged flue, separated components, or a rusted heat exchanger can restrict ventilation and cause CO to build up
  
  
• Reverse air flow: A tightly sealed house can cause air to flow back into the home instead of up the chimney
  
  
• Incomplete combustion: An improperly maintained gas fireplace can produce

 

[friendlysleuther]

I haven't seen anything discussing a doggy door..

Ok- I stand corrected. I found @NuttMegg 's original post stating she heard it in the sheriffs press release & re-watched.

He states that the dogs did have access in and out of the house through a doggie door, but that he couldn't conclude if this is how they were out, or if it was from the front door that they got out.

Anyways, a doggie door makes sense-- LOOK at that land! My dogs & I are jealous..