Gene Hackman dead at 95: Iconic actor and wife, 63, are found dead with their dog at Santa Fe home.

[jojomo410]

But killed how, with no observable trauma on either body? I just can't get into the murder scenario. Not to mention they were in a gated neighborhood which would really limit the options of who they might have encountered.

I am not an expert on decomposition, but I would think the 9 days that they had been dead could make possible trauma less observable. According to the police, they BOTH appear to have fallen, which is extremely odd given there doesn't seem to be gas poisoning. Two falls. No observable trauma. Generally, falling suddenly would leave some trauma to the body.
Not sure about the gated community factor. They may have known the person. Hell, it could have been a maintenance guy. An intruder is the only thing that makes sense to me right now, but it's still early in the investigation.

 

[Moonsie]

If the bathroom where BA was found was an entry/guest bathroom rather than their daily use bathroom, then it seems unusual to me that either of their prescription medications were stored there. Certainly their daily routine type meds would be in their personal bathroom/s.

rsbm.

I’m roughly B’s age. I love routine. I keep stuff where it’s most convenient.

So stated another way, if my doggo sleeps in a crate in a bathroom near the front door and I let him out first thing in the morning, I keep my morning meds on the counter in that bathroom.

moo.

 

[jojomo410]

Ok here's something I've been pondering.

If the bathroom where BA was found was an entry/guest bathroom rather than their daily use bathroom, then it seems unusual to me that either of their prescription medications were stored there. Certainly their daily routine type meds would be in their personal bathroom/s.

But I can see keeping general medications such as tylenol in an entry bathroom, in addition to rx meds that might be needed fast, such as heart medications, kept wherever would be closest to where they might be needed. Maybe some in each bath around the house.

Now, I'm familiar with diltiazem as used for atrial flutter/afib, but never thought of it as something one might need in an emergency, the way nitroglycerin used to be (and maybe still is?). Perhaps it is indeed used that way but it's not my experience. Didn't know it was also used for hypertension so can't comment on that.

I just wonder if there were really more meds than the ones we've seen listed.

I keep going back and forth whether I think she was handling her own pills, or Gene's. Or maybe there were vet meds there she was giving the dog?

If they didn't have the same cause of death (CO, food poisoning, etc.), then she likely had the event in the bathroom and GH was going for help and had a heart attack.

 

[jojomo410]

I’ll bite. Tell me more.

Yeah, I want to hear this also. It makes sense that the same thing (or person) caused both deaths. Two people who live in the same home don't just drop to the floor dead and roughly the same time with separate causes.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

If they didn't have the same cause of death (CO, food poisoning, etc.), then she likely had the event in the bathroom and GH was going for help and had a heart attack.

Yes, my comment was only about what type of medications would be likely to be kept in a guest/entry bathroom. I don't disagree with any of your comment but it's not what I was commenting on.

 

[jojomo410]

Yes, my comment was only about what type of medications would be likely to be kept in a guest/entry bathroom. I don't disagree with any of your comment but it's not what I was commenting on.

I apologize! I'm almost having a running conversation with myself trying to think this through. Very strange.

 

[sunshineray]

Just watching the news conference they had today. The maintenance guy who came didn't call the police. He called the neighborhood security and they came and looked in the windows, then called 911. So their neighborhood had it's own security team/force. What if GH's wife had a health issue happen in the bathroom and fell/passed out unconcious. The space heater looked to have fallen according to the first LE officer on the scene and pills were scattered, even on the floor. Maybe GH heard her fall came in, he put the dog in the crate there to stop him from eating the pills or messing with his wife. It would explain that one dog being in a crate in the bathroom. Maybe he doesn't have a phone on him (I think they said he had his slippers on, could have been sleeping/snoozing?), can't find one and decides to either walk to the nearest neighbor or the security team for help? He could have had his own health episode before leaving the house from the stress. He did have a pacemaker. Just some thoughts.

 

[JDG]

I am not an expert on decomposition, but I would think the 9 days that they had been dead could make possible trauma less observable. According to the police, they BOTH appear to have fallen, which is extremely odd given there doesn't seem to be gas poisoning. Two falls. No observable trauma. Generally, falling suddenly would leave some trauma to the body.
Not sure about the gated community factor. They may have known the person. Hell, it could have been a maintenance guy. An intruder is the only thing that makes sense to me right now, but it's still early in the investigation.

With GH being 95 and BA being in her mid 60s, it wouldn’t be surprising at all if both fell and then died.

Esp. with heart meds. We don’t know who was on what but yes, you can have a quick arrhythmia and it’s like a light being switched off, down you go.

At 95, with a heart history (or not), it’s no surprise that GH passed away. He WAS 95.

Atrial fib can lead to atrial flutter or V Tach and you are gone, just like that.

So, one could have had A Fib that got worse in an instant and the other fell.

No murders, no suicides. Just death for both.

The dog was supposedly in a crate and likely dehydrated.

 

[jojomo410]

With GH being 95 and BA being in her mid 60s, it wouldn’t be surprising at all if both fell and then died.

Esp. with heart meds. We don’t know who was on what but yes, you can have a quick arrhythmia and it’s like a light being switched off, down you go.

At 95, with a heart history (or not), it’s no surprise that GH passed away. He WAS 95.

Atrial fib can lead to atrial flutter or V Tach and you are gone, just like that.

So, one could have had A Fib that got worse in an instant and the other fell.

No murders, no suicides. Just death for both.

The dog was supposedly in a crate and likely dehydrated.

Was the crate detail added in the presser by law enforcement? The search warrant affidavit clearly described the dog as being in a closet. I had that video playing but was having audio issues and may have missed that clarification. That just breaks my heart for the dog. GH and AB appear to have died quickly.

 

[sleuther80]

HIPAA compliance doesn’t apply to pacemakers? They shared that Gene had a pacemaker that stopped on Feb 17th. But can’t share who the prescription medication belonged to? My best guess is they were hers. Everyone already knew he was old and had heart issues. So not really sensational news if they were his.

The sheriff is completely clueless on HIPAA.

 

[JDG]

Was the crate detail added in the presser by law enforcement? The search warrant affidavit clearly described the dog as being in a closet. I had that video playing but was having audio issues and may have missed that clarification. That just breaks my heart for the dog. GH and AB appear to have died quickly.

I read it in NY Post but the article has been changed so I cannot link it now.

I believe it was a clarification of where the dogs corpse was found.

 

[pentimento]

I do believe it was clarified that the dog was in a crate, but has it been clarified that the dog crate was actually closed? I know some people just have an open crate where their dog sleeps and/or feels safe. Like a dog house indoors. It would make a big difference, because if the dog died at the same time as GH and his wife then it is likely some kind of exposure (or foul play).

 

[ttjo]

I wonder how long it takes for phone records/ detail to come out? If the phones were password protected how much longer would that take?

 

[acutename]

Yeah, I want to hear this also. It makes sense that the same thing (or person) caused both deaths. Two people who live in the same home don't just drop to the floor dead and roughly the same time with separate causes.

yeah and the dog too unless he died bec.of the crate ....

 

[bmacmillan1]

BA killing herself in despair because GH died doesn't fit for me.

First of all because he's 95 and she must know it's going to happen soon. Mentally she had to have thought about it. And he's a beloved public figure so she would want to make sure he got whatever service he wanted, or his daughters wanted, etc.

But even if she *was* distraught enough to want to die with him, IMO she would have been laying next to him, hugging him or at least holding his hand.

Not to mention, none of the pills mentioned would be likely to be used to kill oneself, unless perhaps it was the whole bottle of tylenol.

No the only thing that makes sense to me is that she died first, and he either had a heart attack/stroke in shock, or simply fell and then couldn't get up when she wasn't there to help him.

MOO of course

This would be the most plausible scenario to me what trànspired.
I keep envisaging him trying to search for her in the house, wondering where she was.
Their dog, though - I can't figure it out.

 

[Luna20]

I agree the desperation suicide makes no sense at all. One doesn't take a bottle of pills and immediately fall to the floor forgetting to let your beloved dog out of the closet. Also, she would want to be near Gene.

I believe there may have been an intruder or an argument with someone they knew, which in turn agitated one of the dogs. Betsy was made to secure the dog in the closet and she may have tried to disarm the person afterward. A struggle took place knocking the pills and heater over leaving Betsy dead and the dog locked in the closet.

Knowing he's too old to subdue anyone, Gene tries to make a break for it to get help, but is caught in the mudroom and is killed. The intruder, who may have not intended to kill anyone, is thoroughly rattled, aborts the mission, and exits hastily leaving the front door ajar.

How is Gene “killed”?

 

[Luna20]

The 911 call doesn't sound right.

Gene Hackman, wife and dog found dead in home under 'suspicious' circumstances; 2 other dogs found alive

The couple was found during a welfare check after their neighbor called in concerned about their well-being.

abcnews.go.com

Arakawa was found lying on her side on the floor in a bathroom, with a space heater near her body, according to the search warrant.

Her body showed signs of decomposition, the document said. There was mummification to her hands and feet, the document said.

On the counter near Arakawa was an opened prescription bottle, with pills scattered, according to the search warrant.

The Santa Fe City Fire Department found no signs of a possible carbon monoxide leak or poisoning, the document said. If there was carbon monoxide at the scene, it could have vented out of the home through the open front door before responders arrived.

It's locked. I can't go in, but I see them...she's laying down on the floor from the window.

That makes no sense.

It doesn’t to me either. It’s too contrived. The property caretaker or groundskeeper would know which windows provide the best view to the inside. The windows on this type of architecture are very visually accessible.

You can tell if someone isn’t moving through a window. Then the way he says “to send someone soon”. Something is off with that. This guy knows something (in my opinion).

Since it’s established that they have been deceased for a while, why wouldn’t the active groundskeeper have seen them sooner? They are typically at the property regularly.

 

[al66pine]

Sheriff's Stmts. & HIPAA?

The sheriff is completely clueless on HIPAA.

@sleuther80 Is ^post referring to Sheriff referring to the pills seized from Hackman's house pursuant to a S-Wrnt?

If so, HIPAA generally prohibits "healthcare providers and businesses called covered entities from disclosing protected information to anyone other than a patient and the patient's authorized representatives without their consent."*

AFAICT LE is not a "covered entity" which would be prohibited from disclosing protected info to anyone other than a patient & patient's auth'ed rep's w'out their consent.

While doubting that SF County Sheriff's release re info re medicine at property (possibly relating to GH or BA) violated HIPAA, I'm not commenting on whether his public stmt was advisable.
jmo
________________________
* HIPAA

Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Summary of the HIPAA Privacy Rule

Summary of the HIPAA Privacy Rule

www.hhs.gov

See Privacy Rules:

Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA)

To increase knowledge of HIPAA, including covered entities, the HIPAA security rule, and more.

www.cdc.gov

Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) Compliance - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA)

www.law.cornell.edu

 

[ttjo]

It doesn’t to me either. It’s too contrived. The property caretaker or groundskeeper would know which windows provide the best view to the inside. The windows on this type of architecture are very visually accessible.

You can tell if someone isn’t moving through a window. Then the way he says “to send someone soon”. Something is off with that. This guy knows something (in my opinion).

Since it’s established that they have been deceased for a while, why wouldn’t the active groundskeeper have seen them sooner? They are typically at the property regularly.

I heard him say " damn damn" and I couldnt make out the rest, it kind of sounded like "what could this be?" He was the caretaker/security of the subdivision, maybe he was worried he may have missed something? There can't be too much traffic up there. The only thing I thought was odd was when asked something about the person being male or female, he said he didnt know. Did he not know who lived there? IDK, maybe he was just being careful, This is all just so bizarre.

 

[JDG]

I heard him say " damn damn" and I couldnt make out the rest, it kind of sounded like "what could this be?" He was the caretaker/security of the subdivision, maybe he was worried he may have missed something? There can't be too much traffic up there. The only thing I thought was odd was when asked if it was male or female, he said he didnt know. Did he not know who lived there? IDK, maybe he was just being careful, This is all just so bizarre.

Lots of bloating and severe discolouration may have made it harder to tell.

He was security or maintenance and identifying decomposed corpses isn’t their thing.

Or, he did know and that was just his reaction.