General Discussion and Theories #3

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I believe AB is saying DM was stopped for a routine traffic stop and a cop happened to notice his tattoo?

It was also mentioned in the Toronto Star several days ago, in an article discussing the controversial practice of "street checks" by TPS:

More recently, a physical feature recorded on a “208” contact card during a traffic stop led police to accused murderer Dellen Millard.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/11/18/carding_by_toronto_police_drops_sharply.html
 
Thoughts:

1) You're posting on an ad-driven site that discusses crime. There is no point playing the higher-road card. People are interested, web sites get hits, advertisers pay.

2) Dellen Millard is not a kid.

3) The catastrophe of Tim Bosma's murder happened "to" Tim Bosma, it did not happen to Dellen Millard. Dellen Millard is not a victim.

JMO

He was a kid in 2005.

Where does it say the catastrophe happened to DM? I read that it happened to a "good family". I'm sure it was a catastrophe to a few good families.

JMO
 
So, back to Brantford. I wonder who the third party was, the one whose name was conveniently redacted. Unless DM and MB provided written consent, it would appear that whoever released that report has broken some privacy laws.

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90m56_e.htm#BK18

There was a fatal plane crash there in 2005 too. I guess it was a bad year for Brantford airport.

JMO
 
Thoughts:

1) You're posting on an ad-driven site that discusses crime. There is no point playing the higher-road card. People are interested, web sites get hits, advertisers pay.

2) Dellen Millard is not a kid.

3) The catastrophe of Tim Bosma's murder happened "to" Tim Bosma, it did not happen to Dellen Millard. Dellen Millard is not a victim.

JMO

1) The site I was talking about is paying to advertise for the top spot on Goggle, is WS as well? I do not know. The fact that this site we are on now has advertisers may seem a little morbid to some, but I think that this site is also a forum to try to help find missing people and to give comfort to grieving communities, so I think that there is a big difference. But that is not what I was talking about, I am talking about someone calling up Google and saying "Yes, I will pay top dollar for the top spot on your site when people search for information about this horrible tragedy", and then that person turns a profit on exploiting a family's pain.

2) The term Kid is subjective, I apologize. To some people, 27 is a kid, to some people, I am a kid, and I have heard some people call my mother kiddo, so it is a subjective thing. To me, personally, I would think that in 2005, when DM was 19 or 20 years old, that he was probably still very much just a kid. And the point to that being, here we go again, another family who are going to get their loved one's memory sullied so some blogger can get hits exploiting the connection between an obviously tragic workplace accident because the victim happened to die while possibly in the presence of someone who later gained notoriety. That seems unfair to the family of the victim and seems like a desperate grab for readers at any expense, in my opinion, which again, I would call exploitation of tragedy for profit.

3). I was talking about the terrible catastrophe that happened to the Bosma's, I have no idea where someone might read into that that I was speaking about anyone else's family. Although I do consider the family members of all the players in any tragedy as victims, I specifically said family, not families, to not be gratuitous, and to distinguish that although the blogger has been profiting off of the backs of DM's family and friends like 'Josie', the people that the blogger in question is really exploiting are the Bosma's, in my opinion. It's their pain, it's their tragedy that the blogger is profiting financially off of, in my opinion, because Tim Bosma is the victim. No one has said otherwise as far as I have seen here.
 
1) The site I was talking about is paying to advertise for the top spot on Goggle, is WS as well? I do not know. The fact that this site we are on now has advertisers may seem a little morbid to some, but I think that this site is also a forum to try to help find missing people and to give comfort to grieving communities, so I think that there is a big difference. But that is not what I was talking about, I am talking about someone calling up Google and saying "Yes, I will pay top dollar for the top spot on your site when people search for information about this horrible tragedy", and then that person turns a profit on exploiting a family's pain.

2) The term Kid is subjective, I apologize. To some people, 27 is a kid, to some people, I am a kid, and I have heard some people call my mother kiddo, so it is a subjective thing. To me, personally, I would think that in 2005, when DM was 19 or 20 years old, that he was probably still very much just a kid. And the point to that being, here we go again, another family who are going to get their loved one's memory sullied so some blogger can get hits exploiting the connection between an obviously tragic workplace accident because the victim happened to die while possibly in the presence of someone who later gained notoriety. That seems unfair to the family of the victim and seems like a desperate grab for readers at any expense, in my opinion, which again, I would call exploitation of tragedy for profit.

3). I was talking about the terrible catastrophe that happened to the Bosma's, I have no idea where someone might read into that that I was speaking about anyone else's family. Although I do consider the family members of all the players in any tragedy as victims, I specifically said family, not families, to not be gratuitous, and to distinguish that although the blogger has been profiting off of the backs of DM's family and friends like 'Josie', the people that the blogger in question is really exploiting are the Bosma's, in my opinion. It's their pain, it's their tragedy that the blogger is profiting financially off of, in my opinion, because Tim Bosma is the victim. No one has said otherwise as far as I have seen here.
Juballee, IMO, I can understand your sensitivities to these types of things. In so many cases, real crime can result in so many emotions. However, IMO, investigative journalists play a very important role in putting the pieces together for us. That's how they earn their money- many say the same thing about a Lawyer who defends criminals. "How can they take money for defending a murderer etc?" Some criminal lawyers even advertise on their websites how they've gotten drug dealers and other criminals off on technicalities or negotiated greatly reduced sentences. There's nothing wrong with that, even though it may troublesome for victims. The truth is it's a legal paying job and we all have a right to a defense. As I've said before on this forum, IMO, it's DM's involvement in TB's murder that has caused the attention-nothing else.
As A7 pointed out in an earlier thread-DM does seem to have a lot of untimely death around him. MOO
 
Is 20 years old a kid? I tend not to think so but that's JMO.
 
Is this perhaps implying that DM is now responsible for an accident that happened at his workplace in 2005? Is there no end to the things this kid will be accused of before this is done? Give me a break. And the family that had the workplace accident happen to their loved one, how will they feel about having their name and that person's memory dragged into this mess forever?

I believe AB is saying DM was stopped for a routine traffic stop and a cop happened to notice his tattoo? Didn't the MSM report that DM was followed for hours by police before he was arrested without incident? Will MSM pick up this new story, will it pass their more strenuous litmus test?

On a side note, I noticed that someone's blog must be doing well enough financially off of this tragedy to be able to pay for one of the top ads at Google when someone googles DM's name. To me, I personally find it very distasteful that someone is specifically paying to advertise by promoting themselves in connection with a very sad, terrible catastrophe that happened to a good family. That, to me is one of the definitions of exploiting a tragedy for personal gain, but again, that is my personl opinion only.

I know and worked with a certified/graduated/bonafide mortician that had been involved in less death than DM. <modsnip>

The fact remains that DM for whatever reason has an unusual amount of violent death in his proximity, especially for an angel.
 
Juballee, IMO, I can understand your sensitivities to these types of things. In so many cases, real crime can result in so many emotions. However, IMO, investigative journalists play a very important role in putting the pieces together for us. That's how they earn their money- many say the same thing about a Lawyer who defends criminals. "How can they take money for defending a murderer etc?" Some criminal lawyers even advertise on their websites how they've gotten drug dealers and other criminals off on technicalities or negotiated greatly reduced sentences. There's nothing wrong with that, even though it may troublesome for victims. The truth is it's a legal paying job and we all have a right to a defense. As I've said before on this forum, IMO, it's DM's involvement in TB's murder that has caused the attention-nothing else.
As A7 pointed out in an earlier thread-DM does seem to have a lot of untimely death around him. MOO

I think that may be one of the biggest problems that we have, we're apparently letting the 'investigative journalists' put the pieces together for us. Basically that is letting the media present the 'facts' as they see fit to the jury pool that is now fully tainted with media speculation masquerading as fact.

I wasn't speaking of lawyers, nor was I even speaking of someone in the MSM, I was speaking of a blogger who may fancy themselves a reporter, but who is not legitimized by sponsorship from a credible media outlet, in my opinion. I am sure that there are more than one of these bloggers out there, trying to make it big by re-wording stories that they picked up in the MSM, or worse, fabricating things that did not exist out of things like facial expressions during a press conference. I recall reading a story where the headline was that there was new information in the LB case, but then the article in question contained no new information, just a suggestion that something was gleaned from a previous blog that said 'investigative journalist' had written, prompting one to visit their previous blog, (garnishing double the hits in the meantime, very clever), and then when one visits the older blog post, we find out that the gleaning came from the blogger literally not trusting the look on the face of a detective. If someone can tell me how that that is real investigative reporting, I would be interested to hear. To me that is exploitation. It is exploiting the Bosma family for financial profit in the guise of being a public service.

It is the same way that that poor boat rental operator was exploited, in my opinion, and it frankly makes me wonder if people like Josie got the same ultimatum as the boat tour operator, basically, 'talk to us or we will run with the story we made up anyway'. How many media outlets ran the the 'boat covered in blood' story, and managed to milk it out into a two day paper selling frenzy? And how many ran this related story?

http://www.manitoulin.ca/2013/06/05...onal-media-police-in-assisting-millard-probe/

This is what is wrong with letting 'investigative journalists' put the pieces together for us, especially if they are being paid on a contingency scale. They know that the gory, unbelievable, horrifying and outrageous stories sell far better than the mundane truth might, despite both possibly containing information. So, since they know what makes them more money, which ones are they more likely to produce and reproduce? Many of the articles that we consider reliable information do not even have a name or date attributed to them when we look back on them now, where is the credibility?

Just because DM is accused of killing TB, does not give reporters the right to dig into the personal tragedies of everyone who has ever expired in his presence. Being a possible witness to a fatal accident and many years later having a family member commit suicide does not put someone in any closer proximity to a lot of untimely death, in my opinion, certainly not enough to use it to weigh against them when they later are accused of a heinous crime, to make them look more guilty. We should perhaps wait and see what the actual evidence holds before we drag any more innocent families into this media feeding frenzy for profit, in my opinion. What if be of your loved ones died in an accident and years later, one of the first people on the scene happen to be caught up in a horrific crime, would you want their memory connected with that later crime, forever, instead of having it focused on their own lives and accomplishments?
 
DM doesn't look more guilty for a heinous crime because of AB and her posts or anyone elses.

He looks guilty from just the small amount of evidence publically known to date.

No one else has, made the claim or association or the jump to conclusions about his proximity to death and his future guilt.

The fact remains he has been close too, near, around, and associated with a lot of violent deaths and disappearing people. To say otherwise is simply remiss.

Does that make him guilty of anything? Certainly not, but it is noteworthy and attracts investigative attention.

A good example of those death/association/missing person events attracting attention is the commonality of the investigation of WM, LB and TB. The authorities saw the same correlation and improbability of such proximity and are looking for a tie with the previous WM,TB, LM and any other open cases.

After all if one is frequently always found around a lot of crime, one is likely either a cop or a criminal eh?
 
DM doesn't look more guilty for a heinous crime because of AB and her posts or anyone elses.

He looks guilty from just the small amount of evidence publically known to date.

No one else has, made the claim or association or the jump to conclusions about his proximity to death and his future guilt.

The fact remains he has been close too, near, around, and associated with a lot of violent deaths and disappearing people. To say otherwise is simply remiss.

Does that make him guilty of anything? Certainly not, but it is noteworthy and attracts investigative attention.

A good example of those death/association/missing person events attracting attention is the commonality of the investigation of WM, LB and TB. The authorities saw the same correlation and improbability of such proximity and are looking for a tie with the previous WM,TB, LM and any other open cases.

After all if one is frequently always found around a lot of crime, one is likely either a cop or a criminal eh?

:waitasec: I truly don't understand the angst being generated against an investigative journalist who reported a fact supported by information retrieved through FOI, who has worked in MSM and taught journalism at Condordia.

AB presented a FACT ... how one interprets and extrapolates that information is up to them. Me, I just note it as another fact to consider in the scheme of things. Is there something wrong with me? LOL
 
I think that may be one of the biggest problems that we have, we're apparently letting the 'investigative journalists' put the pieces together for us. Basically that is letting the media present the 'facts' as they see fit to the jury pool that is now fully tainted with media speculation masquerading as fact.

I wasn't speaking of lawyers, nor was I even speaking of someone in the MSM, I was speaking of a blogger who may fancy themselves a reporter, but who is not legitimized by sponsorship from a credible media outlet, in my opinion. I am sure that there are more than one of these bloggers out there, trying to make it big by re-wording stories that they picked up in the MSM, or worse, fabricating things that did not exist out of things like facial expressions during a press conference. I recall reading a story where the headline was that there was new information in the LB case, but then the article in question contained no new information, just a suggestion that something was gleaned from a previous blog that said 'investigative journalist' had written, prompting one to visit their previous blog, (garnishing double the hits in the meantime, very clever), and then when one visits the older blog post, we find out that the gleaning came from the blogger literally not trusting the look on the face of a detective. If someone can tell me how that that is real investigative reporting, I would be interested to hear. To me that is exploitation. It is exploiting the Bosma family for financial profit in the guise of being a public service.

It is the same way that that poor boat rental operator was exploited, in my opinion, and it frankly makes me wonder if people like Josie got the same ultimatum as the boat tour operator, basically, 'talk to us or we will run with the story we made up anyway'. How many media outlets ran the the 'boat covered in blood' story, and managed to milk it out into a two day paper selling frenzy? And how many ran this related story?

http://www.manitoulin.ca/2013/06/05...onal-media-police-in-assisting-millard-probe/

This is what is wrong with letting 'investigative journalists' put the pieces together for us, especially if they are being paid on a contingency scale. They know that the gory, unbelievable, horrifying and outrageous stories sell far better than the mundane truth might, despite both possibly containing information. So, since they know what makes them more money, which ones are they more likely to produce and reproduce? Many of the articles that we consider reliable information do not even have a name or date attributed to them when we look back on them now, where is the credibility?

Just because DM is accused of killing TB, does not give reporters the right to dig into the personal tragedies of everyone who has ever expired in his presence. Being a possible witness to a fatal accident and many years later having a family member commit suicide does not put someone in any closer proximity to a lot of untimely death, in my opinion, certainly not enough to use it to weigh against them when they later are accused of a heinous crime, to make them look more guilty. We should perhaps wait and see what the actual evidence holds before we drag any more innocent families into this media feeding frenzy for profit, in my opinion. What if be of your loved ones died in an accident and years later, one of the first people on the scene happen to be caught up in a horrific crime, would you want their memory connected with that later crime, forever, instead of having it focused on their own lives and accomplishments?

Do we know who the person/people is/are who uncovered this latest information? Could it be the family of the person who supposedly, "accidentally" lost his life? Are they the ones now looking for a further investigation? Respectfully Jube with what I bold above could it be just your heartfelt opinion? The public deserves answers just as any of these victim's loved one. Is it because of the two accused arrests in May this latest death has come to light? Seems to be the case in LB's disappearance and I bet her family is now grateful their questions are being looked into. They may never have the answers but at least LE are now taking a serious look into her disappearance.

Personally speaking if I was one of the deceased family members and there seems to be so many suspicious deaths surrounding the accused, I may ask my loved one's "accidental" death to be reconsidered and further investigation done.

I don't think I've seen someone surrounded by so many questionable deaths before. How ironic;
- an accidental death,
- a suicide,
- murder of a man,
- a woman who was in a relationship with him goes missing.
Coincidental?

Also let's not forget the death of CM. Have we even been privy as to how CM died? Sheesh some people have bad luck but it seems DM is surrounded by deaths; questionable deaths. How many more deaths are we going to find connected to DM? All the above is JMO of course.
 
Also let's not forget the death of CM. Have we even been privy as to how CM died?

CM died at the age of 93 at Credit Valley Hospital.

While his obituary is no longer accessible online without a subscription, excerpts can be found on several aviation message boards.
 
Do we know who the person/people is/are who uncovered this latest information? Could it be the family of the person who supposedly, "accidentally" lost his life? Are they the ones now looking for a further investigation?

AB was the one to uncover this information - she tweeted about it and has a short entry on her blog. Considering AB doesn't even know the name of the deceased, it's unlikely that his family contacted her to investigate. The Ministry of Labour and the OPP did investigate the accident in 2005, but there is no mention that it is being investigated further by anyone other than AB herself.
 
:waitasec: I truly don't understand the angst being generated against an investigative journalist who reported a fact supported by information retrieved through FOI, who has worked in MSM and taught journalism at Condordia.

AB presented a FACT ... how one interprets and extrapolates that information is up to them. Me, I just note it as another fact to consider in the scheme of things. Is there something wrong with me? LOL

BBM

Yes, apparently some of us are defective due to deductive reasoning, common sense and of course in AB's case...experienced investigative reporting, oh and advertising sales.......lol

This clearly indicates a possibility of why everyone isn't juror material. lol
 
BBM

Yes, apparently some of us are defective due to deductive reasoning, common sense and of course in AB's case...experienced investigative reporting, oh and advertising sales.......lol

This clearly indicates a possibility of why everyone isn't juror material. lol

I personally feel that all information is important in the big scheme of things and should be considered. What one deems as unimportant to them due to their beliefs could quite well be a missing link to another. And that could be true no matter which side of the fence you are on with regard to this case.
I don't believe AB has ever stated her belief in DM's guilt. I believe she is just doing her job and reporting any news in relation to him.

I do have to ask though...

Would AB's articles, actions and abilities be as vehemently argued if her next
article showed an old incident of DM rescuing a stranded kitty in a tree, or saving a baby from harm? Would she still be an "ambulance chaser"?

JMO
 
I do have to ask though...

Would AB's articles, actions and abilities be as vehemently argued if her next
article showed an old incident of DM rescuing a stranded kitty in a tree, or saving a baby from harm? Would she still be an "ambulance chaser"?

JMO
<rsbm>

Depends on whether that kitten is still alive or later died under mysterious circumstances.

:drumroll:

jk .. JK
 
I personally feel that all information is important in the big scheme of things and should be considered. What one deems as unimportant to them due to their beliefs could quite well be a missing link to another. And that could be true no matter which side of the fence you are on with regard to this case.
I don't believe AB has ever stated her belief in DM's guilt. I believe she is just doing her job and reporting any news in relation to him.

I do have to ask though...

Would AB's articles, actions and abilities be as vehemently argued if her next
article showed an old incident of DM rescuing a stranded kitty in a tree, or saving a baby from harm? Would she still be an "ambulance chaser"?

JMO

Possibly my attempt at sarcasm in my post to Sillybilly was missed.

Interesting hypothesis, you present. Would the cat be needing a place to stay or perhaps selling something, in this hypothetical?

Regardless, DM could use some good press right now, if any exists.
 
Possibly my attempt at sarcasm in my post to Sillybilly was missed.

Interesting hypothesis, you present. Would the cat be needing a place to stay or perhaps selling something, in this hypothetical?

Regardless, DM could use some good press right now, if any exists.

Why? Any good press he had at the beginning of all this was either shrugged off or totally ignored. Why would now be any different?

JMO
 
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