General Discussion and Theories #4

[Tamarind]

Okayy then ... I suppose my post could have succinctly qualified "alleged murder must have been considered premeditated by the Crown to constitute the 1st degree charge in her case".

It is understood, and a given to members of the general public, that charges laid by the Crown are allegations which are believed to be true, otherwise there wouldn't be any charges.

Yes but it is also understood that people charged have a right to a presumption of innocence also. The Crown may believe they have truth, but not all charges result in convictions. Which essentially clarifies that not all people charged are guilty and saying that not all convicted are guilty for that matter. So the Crown's beliefs are often just that.JMO

 

[SnooperDuper]

He is not a patient he is an inmate, sitting in solitary in a jail. No comparison. IMO

Well look at it this way:

Psychiatry treats mental disorders, which are conventionally divided into three very general categories: mental illnesses, severe learning disabilities, and personality disorders

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychiatry

Personality disorders are a class of mental disorders characterized by enduring maladaptive patterns of behavior, cognition, and inner experience, exhibited across many contexts and deviating markedly from those accepted by the individual's culture. These patterns develop early, are inflexible, and are associated with significant distress or disability.

Personality, defined psychologically, is the set of enduring behavioral and mental traits that distinguish human beings. Hence, personality disorders are defined by experiences and behaviors that differ from societal norms and expectations. Those diagnosed with a personality disorder may experience difficulties in cognition, emotiveness, interpersonal functioning, or control of impulses. In general, personality disorders are diagnosed in 40–60 percent of psychiatric patients, making them the most frequent of all psychiatric diagnoses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder

So in differing from societal norms, we're talking about everything from hygiene to fu manchu moustaches and mohawk haircuts dyed bright red...right on through to theft and murder.

Surely DM is about to become a psychiatric case study.

 

[Juballee]

In my opinion, it is easy to play armchair psychologist to someone one has never met, while never holding any degrees in psychology. One of the first lessons of psych 101 is not to try to diagnose people without a proper assessment, from what I recall.

Somehow I imagine that if DM had actually had any psychological issues or mental illnesses prior to his incarceration, we would have heard about it by now. If DM's appearance is indeed an indication that he is going crazy, it would likely be caused by his long term incarceration in solitary confinement, in my opinion. Also, if he had been mentally ill before he was incarcerated, it would have been doubly cruel punishment to exacerbate that with extreme isolation.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...at-does-solitary-confinement-do-to-your-mind/

 

[Sillybilly]

Yes but it is also understood that people charged have a right to a presumption of innocence also. The Crown may believe they have truth, but not all charges result in convictions. Which essentially clarifies that not all people charged are guilty and saying that not all convicted are guilty for that matter. So the Crown's beliefs are often just that.JMO

My post was in relation to the discussion of the charges and whether or not premeditation was a factor in the laying of those charges.

 

[SnooperDuper]

In my opinion, it is easy to play armchair psychologist to someone one has never met, while never holding any degrees in psychology. One of the first lessons of psych 101 is not to try to diagnose people without a proper assessment, from what I recall.

Somehow I imagine that if DM had actually had any psychological issues or mental illnesses prior to his incarceration, we would have heard about it by now. If DM's appearance is indeed an indication that he is going crazy, it would likely be caused by his long term incarceration in solitary confinement, in my opinion. Also, if he had been mentally ill before he was incarcerated, it would have been doubly cruel punishment to exacerbate that with extreme isolation.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...at-does-solitary-confinement-do-to-your-mind/

Psychology doesn't just concern itself with the mentally ill, or "crazy" if you prefer, but also the learning disabled and those of poor character (i.e., who have personality disorders).

Indicators of a personality disorder include such things as sexual promiscuity, drug use, criminal acts, hygiene, empathy (or lack of it) and so forth.

Because DM is now an accused criminal, he will live under the paradigm of psychology in the prison as officials try to remediate him.

DM can do his time and all his time, or he can attempt to be cured....through drug, therapy and counselling interventions under the umbrella of psychiatry.

There's really no avoiding it...and isn't all psychiatry delivered from an armchair?

As for the link, doesn't DM have a TV, books and magazines to foil boredom and insanity? It's not as if he's been put in "the hole", as the US prisoners of the article were.

Murder was quite a high stakes gamble for DM: it seems one pays a terrible price if one is caught.

 

[Juballee]

Psychology doesn't just concern itself with the mentally ill, or "crazy" if you prefer, but also the learning disabled and those of poor character (i.e., who have personality disorders).

Indicators of a personality disorder include such things as sexual promiscuity, drug use, criminal acts, hygiene, empathy (or lack of it) and so forth.

Because DM is now an accused criminal, he will live under the paradigm of psychology in the prison as officials try to remediate him.

DM can do his time and all his time, or he can attempt to be cured....through drug, therapy and counselling interventions under the umbrella of psychiatry.

There's really no avoiding it...and isn't all psychiatry delivered from an armchair?

As for the link, doesn't DM have a TV, books and magazines to foil boredom and insanity? It's not as if he's been put in "the hole", as the US prisoners of the article were.

Murder was quite a high stakes gamble for DM: it seems one pays a terrible price if one is caught.

Personally, I don't prefer to call people with mentally illnesses 'crazy', that would be inconsiderate or condescending. There is a difference between personality disorders and poor character; not every jerk has a personality disorder, not everyone with a personality disorder has poor character, the two terms are not interchangeable.

Which personality disorder is being described, I wonder, and aren't those same characteristics found in people without personality disorders all the time? How are we to use those things to judge the mental health of an individual that we have not met, especially without an education in the field of psychology?

I did not know that Ontario prisons are now in the psychological remediation business. Which prison official is in charge of his mental rehabilitation, I wonder, and is spending 2+ years in solitary confinement a new kind of therapy for the mentally ill? The reading I have done in the subject seems to point to it having the opposite of a therepudic effect, even on those who were not mentally ill to begin with, so I would like to see the research that refutes that, personally.

The seating preferences of professionals aside, in modern vernacular the addition of the term 'armchair' to a professional title is meant to denote that it is a job done by professionals that anyone watching it done would think that they can also do without the same amount of training and education, but which is in fact a fallacy.

As far as I have seen and heard, there is no television viewing from the solitary confinement cell that DM is currently residing in, but if there is a link to refute that, please pass it along. Thanks in advance.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Personally, I don't prefer to call people with mentally illnesses 'crazy', that would be inconsiderate or condescending. There is a difference between personality disorders and poor character; not every jerk has a personality disorder, not everyone with a personality disorder has poor character, the two terms are not interchangeable.

Which personality disorder is being described, I wonder, and aren't those same characteristics found in people without personality disorders all the time? How are we to use those things to judge the mental health of an individual that we have not met, especially without an education in the field of psychology?

As far as bad behavior goes, I think that once you come to the attention of the authorities (police, the courts, etc.) then your behaviour is bad enough to qualify you as having a personality disorder and attract the attention of psychiatrists in the system.

I did not know that Ontario prisons are now in the psychological remediation business. Which prison official is in charge of his mental rehabilitation, I wonder, and is spending 2+ years in solitary confinement a new kind of therapy for the mentally ill? The reading I have done in the subject seems to point to it having the opposite of a therepudic effect, even on those who were not mentally ill to begin with, so I would like to see the research that refutes that, personally.

Isn't prison for rehabilitation not merely punishment? It is the hope of the system that people can one day emerge and be normal members of society. DM has to be convicted of, or admit to his crimes before he can be offered any rehab. And he has to be willing to admit his flaws and commit to improving himself. Until then, he's just got to wait for his day in court. He could short-circuit this long three-year wait if only he would talk.

The seating preferences of professionals aside, in modern vernacular the addition of the term 'armchair' to a professional title is meant to denote that it is a job done by professionals that anyone watching it done would think that they can also do without the same amount of training and education, but which is in fact a fallacy.

As far as I have seen and heard, there is no television viewing from the solitary confinement cell that DM is currently residing in, but if there is a link to refute that, please pass it along. Thanks in advance.

DM has the means to pay for any magazine subscriptions and books he'd choose. Imagine the educational advancement DM could make if he had set his mind to educating himself in jail. While he criticized his teachers in school, apparently he can't do the job himself and teach himself. Too bad. He just doesn't have the kind of character that will move him forward.

There are lots of people who wouldn't mind being locked away in seclusion with a pile of books for years. Some people chose this as their careers. It takes a knowledge-hungry mind to do this though. DM apparently ain't all that.

 

[SnooperDuper]

At any rate, DM is in no shape to join the general population. He's emaciated and weak, not fighting fit, and his long hair can be used as a weapon (someone can lace their hands up in his hair and use it to guide DM's face into their fist. Long hair in prison is generally a bad idea.)

 

[Tamarind]

As far as bad behavior goes, I think that once you come to the attention of the authorities (police, the courts, etc.) then your behaviour is bad enough to qualify you as having a personality disorder and attract the attention of psychiatrists in the system.

Oh so people automatically have bad behaviour and a personality disorder, which warrants psychiatric intervention, if they come to the attention of the police and subsequently the courts? Thats an interesting notion. How does that account for all the charges that are dismissed, thrown out or stayed? or the acquittals?

Isn't prison for rehabilitation not merely punishment? It is the hope of the system that people can one day emerge and be normal members of society. DM has to be convicted of, or admit to his crimes before he can be offered any rehab. And he has to be willing to admit his flaws and commit to improving himself. Until then, he's just got to wait for his day in court. He could short-circuit this long three-year wait if only he would talk.

Prison is considered rehab for those who are convicted not for the innocent. But in my opinion I see no obvious proof of any rehabilitation process taking place within prisons for convicted people. DM hasn't been convicted and it would seem by his 'not guilty' plea he feels he should not be and he is going to fight. How many people do you know outside of jail who are willing to admit flaws? I think he realizes he has to wait for his day in court and is prepared to do so, hence his silence. JMO

DM has the means to pay for any magazine subscriptions and books he'd choose. Imagine the educational advancement DM could make if he had set his mind to educating himself in jail. While he criticized his teachers in school, apparently he can't do the job himself and teach himself. Too bad. He just doesn't have the kind of character that will move him forward.

Maybe DM is using his time wisely. I believe he did tell a reporter that he has been reading books. ( Molly Hayes ?) Unless someone knows him personally I don't feel they are qualified to make assessments on his character, criticizing teachers in no way is unusual for teenagers IMO.

There are lots of people who wouldn't mind being locked away in seclusion with a pile of books for years. Some people chose this as their careers. It takes a knowledge-hungry mind to do this though. DM apparently ain't all that.

Didn't DP say DM was philosophical? Maybe this is what is getting him through, along with books. I seem to remember it being said that DM was reading up on law too. That can be quite time consuming and would need a knowledge hungry mind and some will to move things forward IMHO

 

[Tamarind]

At any rate, DM is in no shape to join the general population. He's emaciated and weak, not fighting fit, and his long hair can be used as a weapon (someone can lace their hands up in his hair and use it to guide DM's face into their fist. Long hair in prison is generally a bad idea.)

Women often have long hair. Also Sikh men have long hair. Why should a man be forced to have short hair when other inmates can choose. In the 70's many men had long hair. Aren't judges wigs simulating long hair?

Any of us having to eat microwaved, powdered and nutrient deficient food would become unhealthier than before. Not to mention the lack of sunshine which is required for many nutrients to be metabolized.

If DM is actually emaciated, I wonder why he hasn't been taken to hospital. I hope this isn't a sign along with limited access to grooming facilities that people in segregation are neglected.

 

[Juballee]

As far as bad behavior goes, I think that once you come to the attention of the authorities (police, the courts, etc.) then your behaviour is bad enough to qualify you as having a personality disorder and attract the attention of psychiatrists in the system.



Isn't prison for rehabilitation not merely punishment? It is the hope of the system that people can one day emerge and be normal members of society. DM has to be convicted of, or admit to his crimes before he can be offered any rehab. And he has to be willing to admit his flaws and commit to improving himself. Until then, he's just got to wait for his day in court. He could short-circuit this long three-year wait if only he would talk.



DM has the means to pay for any magazine subscriptions and books he'd choose. Imagine the educational advancement DM could make if he had set his mind to educating himself in jail. While he criticized his teachers in school, apparently he can't do the job himself and teach himself. Too bad. He just doesn't have the kind of character that will move him forward.

There are lots of people who wouldn't mind being locked away in seclusion with a pile of books for years. Some people chose this as their careers. It takes a knowledge-hungry mind to do this though. DM apparently ain't all that.

Personally, I disagree with almost all of the above, and would need to see proof that any of these things are real before I could change my mind. For example, a personality disorder does not magically appear in a person once they come to the attention of the police. Not all people the police or courts look at have personality disorders, because being 'bad' is not a personality disorder.

Psychiatrists are not part of the daily prison routine. Prison is not rehab nor is it a psychiatric hospital. Prisoners are not rehabilitated for their reintroduction into society in prison, that is what halfway houses are for. Hope is a feeling, and systems do not have feelings. Prisoners do not have to admit their flaws, it isn't group counselling, it is jail. Somehow the above sounds like if DM just confessed, he'd go straight into the treatment that he apparently already needs, what with supposedly having a mental illness already, but that is not at all the way the system works.

I do agree with the fact that DM can buy books and magazines, although I believe that there are still restrictions on that, and I agree that he could be using that time to learn. I believe that he has said either in his interview with the reporter who snagged the lucky interview or through his lawyer, that he has been using the time to read and work on designs or inventions, and to at least catch up on fashion so I think that it is unfair to say he doesn't have the kind of character that could move him forward, or be hungry for knowledge. That is my personal take on it, but again, if anyone has links to prove differently, I would be interested in reading and possibly learning more. Thanks in advance.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Oh so people automatically have bad behaviour and a personality disorder, which warrants psychiatric intervention, if they come to the attention of the police and subsequently the courts? Thats an interesting notion. How does that account for all the charges that are dismissed, thrown out or stayed? or the acquittals?

Well take a guy who has been charged with assault. If it his first offence, he may be found guilty but diverted from jail into an anger management program, which is run under the auspices of the psychiatric system. Take another guy who just got a DUI. Part of his sentence might be to attend a certain number of sessions of AA or a similar substance abuse counselling program, again a part of the psychiatric system. Psychiatry is used to guide people towards a righteous life, and divert people from jails.

Prison is considered rehab for those who are convicted not for the innocent. But in my opinion I see no obvious proof of any rehabilitation process taking place within prisons for convicted people. DM hasn't been convicted and it would seem by his 'not guilty' plea he feels he should not be and he is going to fight. How many people do you know outside of jail who are willing to admit flaws? I think he realizes he has to wait for his day in court and is prepared to do so, hence his silence. JMO

Flawed people who won't admit their flaws aren't really good people, are they? Psychiatry's expectations of people is that their behaviour falls within societal norms (theft and murder are not considered normal behaviour). Just because DM won't admit his guilt does not mean that he is innocent. He's got $12M to fight the charges, so why wouldn't he hope that he might get off on a technicality? That does not make him innocent.

Maybe DM is using his time wisely. I believe he did tell a reporter that he has been reading books. ( Molly Hayes ?) Unless someone knows him personally I don't feel they are qualified to make assessments on his character, criticizing teachers in no way is unusual for teenagers IMO.

Do you know DM personally, for that matter?

DM didn't tell a reporter that he was reading books, but that he had a coffee table book with which to decorate his cell:

On his bedside at the moment is the 19th-century book On War by Carl von Clausewitz.

http://www.cambridgetimes.ca/news-s...dellen-millard-says-he-didn-t-kill-tim-bosma/

Didn't DP say DM was philosophical? Maybe this is what is getting him through, along with books. I seem to remember it being said that DM was reading up on law too. That can be quite time consuming and would need a knowledge hungry mind and some will to move things forward IMHO

Nope, no recall of DM reading any law books, and with his education, they would be far to challenging for him anyway.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Personally, I disagree with almost all of the above, and would need to see proof that any of these things are real before I could change my mind. For example, a personality disorder does not magically appear in a person once they come to the attention of the police. Not all people the police or courts look at have personality disorders, because being 'bad' is not a personality disorder.

No, someone with a personality disorder would be disordered before they even came to the attention of the police. His social circle may have seen promiscuity and drug use and thievery as nothing of concern, but these are the sort of acts that are used to diagnose a personality disorder. Perhaps his friends all have personality disorders as well.

Psychiatrists are not part of the daily prison routine. Prison is not rehab nor is it a psychiatric hospital. Prisoners are not rehabilitated for their reintroduction into society in prison, that is what halfway houses are for. Hope is a feeling, and systems do not have feelings. Prisoners do not have to admit their flaws, it isn't group counselling, it is jail. Somehow the above sounds like if DM just confessed, he'd go straight into the treatment that he apparently already needs, what with supposedly having a mental illness already, but that is not at all the way the system works.

From the Corrections Canada website:

CSC’s goal is to assist inmates to become law-abiding citizens. The correctional process begins at sentencing. From the time an offender is initially assessed, through case management and to supervision in the community, there is a team of dedicated professionals working closely with the offender. Correctional programs are offered to help offenders take responsibility for their actions. They are encouraged to learn the skills necessary to help them return safely to the community. A range of motivational strategies are used to help offenders see the value of participating in these programs. The correctional process does not end with the offender’s release – it continues in the community. Similar to the dedicated team within the institution, offenders work with a Case Management Team that may include a Parole Officer, health care professionals, volunteers and an entire network of support.

http://www.csc-scc.gc.ca/correctional-process/index-eng.shtml

I do agree with the fact that DM can buy books and magazines, although I believe that there are still restrictions on that, and I agree that he could be using that time to learn. I believe that he has said either in his interview with the reporter who snagged the lucky interview or through his lawyer, that he has been using the time to read and work on designs or inventions, and to at least catch up on fashion so I think that it is unfair to say he doesn't have the kind of character that could move him forward, or be hungry for knowledge. That is my personal take on it, but again, if anyone has links to prove differently, I would be interested in reading and possibly learning more. Thanks in advance.

I thought he was re-living Jurassic Park in his head?

“I spend time outside the cell in my head,” he says. “I re-enact movies in my head. It was Jurassic Park last night.”

http://www.cambridgetimes.ca/news-s...dellen-millard-says-he-didn-t-kill-tim-bosma/

 

[SnooperDuper]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/chilling-details-emerge-in-mysterious-bosma-case/article12757899/

Well DM has to read his own legal paperwork. I would hardly call that reading up on the law, though DP might cast it that way.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Women often have long hair. Also Sikh men have long hair. Why should a man be forced to have short hair when other inmates can choose. In the 70's many men had long hair. Aren't judges wigs simulating long hair?

Any of us having to eat microwaved, powdered and nutrient deficient food would become unhealthier than before. Not to mention the lack of sunshine which is required for many nutrients to be metabolized.

If DM is actually emaciated, I wonder why he hasn't been taken to hospital. I hope this isn't a sign along with limited access to grooming facilities that people in segregation are neglected.

DM can grow his hair as long as he wants. He'd just better never hope he crosses the path of someone who wants to fight him. That was the point. It is not about rights or culture, but personal safety.

 

[SnooperDuper]

At this link, a list of all the psychiatric programs available to rehabilitate men under corrections:

http://www.csc-scc.gc.ca/correctional-process/002001-2001-eng.shtml#s1

 

[Alethea Dice]

Because DM is now an accused criminal, he will live under the paradigm of psychology in the prison as officials try to remediate him.

Unless he was going for not criminally responsible, I doubt psychology will have anything to do with him, at least not at this point if ever.

DM can do his time and all his time, or he can attempt to be cured....through drug, therapy and counselling interventions under the umbrella of psychiatry.

If DM is found guilty, he will be doing all his time. There will be no option to lessen his incarceration time with a cure of any existing or non-existing psychological disabilities. He will be serving life with no chance of parole for anywhere from 25 to 75 years.

As for the link, doesn't DM have a TV, books and magazines to foil boredom and insanity? It's not as if he's been put in "the hole", as the US prisoners of the article were.

There is no TV and no internet in provincial dentention centres. The only TV is in the common area. I believe that the federal institutions do allow TV within certain parameters, provided the inmate pays for it.

 

[Alethea Dice]

As far as bad behavior goes, I think that once you come to the attention of the authorities (police, the courts, etc.) then your behaviour is bad enough to qualify you as having a personality disorder and attract the attention of psychiatrists in the system.

That's a pretty broad statement. Lots of people come to the attention of police who have no personality disorder and who may not have committed any crime other than where they live or where they are walking. In a university/college city, many students are "carded" for the simple reason that they live in student housing. People are carded because they are seen in a high risk area. Some people are falsely identified and later released when/if the error is found. People are arrested for crimes that never happened and are jailed until or if the accuser admits their false statement.

There are lots of people who wouldn't mind being locked away in seclusion with a pile of books for years. Some people chose this as their careers. It takes a knowledge-hungry mind to do this though. DM apparently ain't all that.

What career is that that requires someone to lock themselves away in seclusion for 23 hours a day with only a pile of books, if you don't mind my asking.

 

[Alethea Dice]

At any rate, DM is in no shape to join the general population. He's emaciated and weak, not fighting fit, and his long hair can be used as a weapon (someone can lace their hands up in his hair and use it to guide DM's face into their fist. Long hair in prison is generally a bad idea.)

I believe the fist would be the weapon in that example, not the hair. (Just saying.) There are lots of people in jail with long hair.

 

[Alethea Dice]

DM didn't tell a reporter that he was reading books, but that he had a coffee table book with which to decorate his cell:

http://www.cambridgetimes.ca/news-s...dellen-millard-says-he-didn-t-kill-tim-bosma/

Well, if you believe the jailhouse letters,

Millard also vows not to let his time in prison go to waste, noting that he draws and reads six to eight hours a day. His reading list includes a biography of Mahatma Gandhi and the prison memoir, Orange is the New Black, as well as magazines such as National Geographic, Popular Mechanics and Men’s Health from the prison canteen.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/letters-from-bosma-accused-dellen-millard-imply-he-believes-he-will-return-to-world-of-fast-cars-and-exotic-adventure

Why do you call On War a coffee table book? It's available in paperback (which is all that is allowed - no textbooks) and is all writing. It is not a book of illustrations.

http://www.csc-scc.gc.ca/media-room/009-0002-eng.shtml