General Discussion and Theories #4

[SnooperDuper]

IIRC There was one person who received a call after her calling DM. I guess we will have go looking for that again.

No, you don't have to look anymore...I posted the phone bill and DM is clearly the last person LB called. Normally a billing cycle ends mid to late in the month, so it is highly unusual for all the activity on the phone to end on the evening of July 3.

I hope Carbonne isn't going to testify at the trial. Juries don't like people to contradict themselves and not know what they are talking about as it looks like their testimony is false and/or has been rehearsed. JMO .I believe SL claimed the phone wasn't used after that date, but I imagine the police would have requested the final phone bills to make sure. JMO

The phone bill posted was LB's final phone bill.

 

[Sillybilly]

IIRC There was one person who received a call after her calling DM. I guess we will have go looking for that again.

<rsbm>

The only entry on that bill after her calls to DM was a voicemail check at 19:03.

 

[swedie]

Didn't SL say that she had not used her FB etc? Thats why he logged into her account I believe he said.



Yes victims deserve justice and so do those on trial, as they may be innocent of the charges.I agree, we shall have to wait and see.

That's a new one. So you're saying SL had LB's FB password? Link please and thanks.
Just because she did not post or comment on anything on FB doesn't mean she wasn't on it PMing.

I agree, absolutely victims deserve justice. At this point, it certainly doesn't appear the charged are innocent...more so DM. I still haven't found anything which physically connects MS to the murders other than a couple witnesses identifying him at test drives. MS went on one test drive where nothing happened to the business owner and the other test drive, apparently he got out of TB's truck and into DM's Yukon leaving DM alone with TB. MOO.

 

[cansleuther]

That's a new one. So you're saying SL had LB's FB password? Link please and thanks.

From the "Help us find Laura" FB page, posted on July 18, 2012:

This is Laura&#8217;s friend Shawn. I logged on to her account to create this group. I am sorry if I got your hopes up when you saw she was online but I just wanted to create this group through her account so I can invite all her friends.

HTH

 

[SnooperDuper]

That's a new one. So you're saying SL had LB's FB password? Link please and thanks.
Just because she did not post or comment on anything on FB doesn't mean she wasn't on it PMing.

I agree, absolutely victims deserve justice. At this point, it certainly doesn't appear the charged are innocent...more so DM. I still haven't found anything which physically connects MS to the murders other than a couple witnesses identifying him at test drives. MS went on one test drive where nothing happened to the business owner and the other test drive, apparently he got out of TB's truck and into DM's Yukon leaving DM alone with TB. MOO.

Babcock's friends said she went silent in early July. While she would often disappear for months on end without seeing her friends, she would always stay in touch through texts or Facebook messages.

http://www.guelphmercury.com/news-s...rges-eliminate-hope-of-finding-babcock-alive/

“The police have her phone records,” Babcock’s brother said. “They took her computer to see what digital conversations she’s had with anyone.”

http://www.citynews.ca/2013/05/17/family-says-missing-toronto-woman-knew-dellen-millard/

Lerner said Babcock and Millard had known each other "for several years" and that her phone records seemed to indicate she was calling friends for a place to stay temporarily until she found a permanent home.

Lerner said he contacted Millard recently to discuss the phone calls, and that Millard told him Babcock had been calling for drugs and a place to stay — two requests that Millard said he turned down.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/05/19/laura-babcock-dellen-millard_n_3304096.html

 

[SnooperDuper]

From the "Help us find Laura" FB page, posted on July 18, 2012:

This is Laura’s friend Shawn. I logged on to her account to create this group. I am sorry if I got your hopes up when you saw she was online but I just wanted to create this group through her account so I can invite all her friends.

HTH

You can tell from the Facebook log if LB's phone, SL's iPad, LB's computer or SL's computer, etc., was the device that logged in. LE would be able to differentiate between any activity coming from LB's devices and SL's.

 

[Tamarind]

That's a new one. So you're saying SL had LB's FB password? Link please and thanks.
Just because she did not post or comment on anything on FB doesn't mean she wasn't on it PMing.

I agree, absolutely victims deserve justice. At this point, it certainly doesn't appear the charged are innocent...more so DM. I still haven't found anything which physically connects MS to the murders other than a couple witnesses identifying him at test drives. MS went on one test drive where nothing happened to the business owner and the other test drive, apparently he got out of TB's truck and into DM's Yukon leaving DM alone with TB. MOO.

I believe SL has said he had access to her FB, I may be mistaken but if you check the Help Us Find Laura Facebook which SL started it was created by Elle Ryan (Lauras account) This indicates that he had access to her account. Also if you read the HUFLaura site you will see that LB's mother also confirms that SL has access. HTH

I have taken many screen shots incase it disappears.

from site: Elle Ryan created the group.
July 18, 2012

If you read the description, you will see that SL logged into Laura's Facebook to create the group in July 2012.

 

[swedie]

http://www.guelphmercury.com/news-s...rges-eliminate-hope-of-finding-babcock-alive/



http://www.citynews.ca/2013/05/17/family-says-missing-toronto-woman-knew-dellen-millard/



http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/05/19/laura-babcock-dellen-millard_n_3304096.html

Thanks Snooper. Her brother said LE took her computer, yes I do recall this information now. Any word as to where LE seized her computer from? If she had a computer, what was the purpose of SL lending her his ipad...convenience of being able to carry it around with her while she was out and about looking for a place to live and finding a job? Or because she left her computer at her parent's home until she found a more permanent place to stay perhaps? MOO.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Thanks Snooper. Her brother said LE took her computer, yes I do recall this information now. Any word as to where LE seized her computer from? If she had a computer, what was the purpose of SL lending her his ipad...convenience of being able to carry it around with her while she was out and about looking for a place to live and finding a job? Or because she left her computer at her parent's home until she found a more permanent place to stay perhaps? MOO.

Yes...as far as SL using LB's Facebook account, by default Facebook saves the IP and browser used every time you log in, so there would be no confusion to LE about when SL logged in and when LB did.

I guess she had the iPad because she couldn't take her computer with her and set it up if it was a desktop and she was couch-surfing. She would have no reason to reset her computer and the relationship with DM was ongoing so it probably contains some clues about the nature of their relationship.

 

[Alethea Dice]

No, you don't have to look anymore...I posted the phone bill and DM is clearly the last person LB called. Normally a billing cycle ends mid to late in the month, so it is highly unusual for all the activity on the phone to end on the evening of July 3.



The phone bill posted was LB's final phone bill.

Billing dates are scattered throughout the month, depending on when you first opened the account. It doesn't always match the day you opened it, but is normally within the next couple of weeks. From experience, they do not only bill during the last half of the month. You cannot tell from the small piece of the bill that was shared with the media what the billing date was, but you are correct that that would be the last "call" contact made during that billing cycle.

The phone bill posted was not the final phone bill and there is no way to tell that from the small piece that was shared with the media. There may not have been any calls on future bills, but the bills would have continued until the contract was cancelled. Then a final bill would be sent. The next bill was not shared with the public so we do not know what may have been on it for other usage (texts or data usage), only that it has been reported in media that those were the last calls made.

 

[Alethea Dice]

I'm suspecting it may have been MSM who redacted the info for legal reasons in order to not prejudice the case against the accused.

Actually, I was surprised at how few incoming calls there were in relation to outgoing. I'm also surprised that the very last entry on the bill, the voicemail check, was the only access of her voicemail in a 3 day period.

The incoming calls were not redacted on the billing shown in MSM. Rogers billings do not show the phone numbers of incoming calls, only outgoing ones. Incoming calls are always just blank in the column for phone numbers.

 

[Alethea Dice]

IIRC, that little tidbit re contact with others after DM on July 3 came during Carbone's deer in the headlights moment when he didn't seem very familiar with the specifics of the case, and in fact contradicted himself on a couple of issues.

If LB is determined to have been murdered on July 3 as charged, then it would be safe to say she did not have contact with anyone beyond her calls with DM. If there is convincing evidence that she died on July 3 and call records indicate her phone was used beyond that date, then it would be interesting to know who was using it.

I also believe this is where the information about other contacts after the calls to DM came from. I didn't listen to the entire conference again, but don't remember him particularly contradicting himself. I do remember him contradicting SL's information about the phone records, but that seems to have been from his limited knowledge about what 22 Division had done earlier. He was speaking about when his division received the records when he first answered the question, and when questioned further said he believed that, if 22 Division had the records earlier, he felt they would have checked into them at the time. He did not hesitate and seemed pretty confident when asked if DM was the last contact or if there was more. He says "There is more. At this point, we're reaching out to the public and trying to identify more witnesses so that we can confirm the contacts she had. I would rather hear it from the members of the public as opposed to giving it out to a media release. So there is still more information to follow up on."

[video=youtube;hwLgv3YhsTM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwLgv3YhsTM"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwLgv3YhsTM[/video]

 

[Alethea Dice]

LE established that she died July 3rd, so that's all going to be kinda difficult.

<rsbm>

This actually isn't true. What LE, and court records, said was that they believe she was killed "on or around July 3, 2012". If that was the last contact she had with anyone, that would be "around" the date they would work from.

According to court documents, police now believe Babcock was killed on or around July 3.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2014/06/07/dellen_millard_murder_of_laura_babcock_leaves_lingering_questions_for_police.html

http://www.bramptonguardian.com/news-story/4570137-bosma-case-police-silence-on-missing-babcock-unprecedented/

http://www.citynews.ca/2014/04/12/ex-girlfriend-of-man-accused-in-bosma-murder-dead-before-even-reported-missing-report/

 

[SnooperDuper]

I also believe this is where the information about other contacts after the calls to DM came from. I didn't listen to the entire conference again, but don't remember him particularly contradicting himself. I do remember him contradicting SL's information about the phone records, but that seems to have been from his limited knowledge about what 22 Division had done earlier. He was speaking about when his division received the records when he first answered the question, and when questioned further said he believed that, if 22 Division had the records earlier, he felt they would have checked into them at the time. He did not hesitate and seemed preety confident when asked if DM was the last contact or if there was more. He says "There is more. At this point, we're reaching out to the public and trying to identify more witnesses so that we can confirm the contacts she had. I would rather hear it from the members of the public as opposed to giving it out to a media release. So there is still more information to follow up on."

<vsbm>

That's just saying they were investigating all last contacts, doing a thorough investigation this time, and not just looking DM.

Seeing as DM ended up being charged, he's the most meaningful of all LB's last contacts.

IMO people should feel reassured that LE investigated all of LB's contacts in order to come to the conclusion that they did.

 

[SnooperDuper]

<rsbm>

This actually isn't true. What LE, and court records, said was that they believe she was killed "on or around July 3, 2012". If that was the last contact she had with anyone, that would be "around" the date they would work from.



http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2014/06/07/dellen_millard_murder_of_laura_babcock_leaves_lingering_questions_for_police.html

http://www.bramptonguardian.com/news-story/4570137-bosma-case-police-silence-on-missing-babcock-unprecedented/

http://www.citynews.ca/2014/04/12/ex-girlfriend-of-man-accused-in-bosma-murder-dead-before-even-reported-missing-report/

Is it still not going to be difficult for LB to make calls, seeing as she's believed to be dead?

 

[Alethea Dice]

That's just saying they were investigating all last contacts, doing a thorough investigation this time, and not just looking DM.

Seeing as DM ended up being charged, he's the most meaningful of all LB's last contacts.

IMO people should feel reassured that LE investigated all of LB's contacts in order to come to the conclusion that they did.

That's just your opinion on what he's saying. The rest I agree with.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Is it still not going to be difficult for LB to make calls, seeing as she's believed to be dead?

It would be if they can prove she's dead. What's more questionable is the date. They don't know the date, they only believe it was around that date. If she was still alive for any time after July 3rd, she could potentially have made calls, if she still had the phone. We will have to wait to see what they have to have determined that she is dead. All we know right now is that contact with her normal set of friends ended at that time and what her phone bill showed at the time.

JMO

 

[SnooperDuper]

It would be if they can prove she's dead. What's more questionable is the date. They don't know the date, they only believe it was around that date. If she was still alive for any time after July 3rd, she could potentially have made calls, if she still had the phone. We will have to wait to see what they have to have determined that she is dead. All we know right now is that contact with her normal set of friends ended at that time and what her phone bill showed at the time.

JMO

We also know this:

Police appeared to have not suspected foul play in the disappearance of Babcock, despite the fact she&#8217;d been missing for months, had left her passport with her parents, and had not made any financial transactions nor used her health card or phone since June 2012.

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/tag/laura-babcock

 

[swedie]

Billing dates are scattered throughout the month, depending on when you first opened the account. It doesn't always match the day you opened it, but is normally within the next couple of weeks. From experience, they do not only bill during the last half of the month. You cannot tell from the small piece of the bill that was shared with the media what the billing date was, but you are correct that that would be the last "call" contact made during that billing cycle.

The phone bill posted was not the final phone bill and there is no way to tell that from the small piece that was shared with the media. There may not have been any calls on future bills, but the bills would have continued until the contract was cancelled. Then a final bill would be sent. The next bill was not shared with the public so we do not know what may have been on it for other usage (texts or data usage), only that it has been reported in media that those were the last calls made.

The information is consistent DM was the last person to have phone contact with LB before she disappeared. How coincidental is it LE stated they believe the last day she had contact with DM is the day she was murdered. And shortly thereafter someone from MA ordered, and paid for an animal incinerator which showed on DM's farmland. The same incinerator LE believe was used to burned TB beyond recognition, the same incinerator in which LE suggested was used to obliterate LB.

Many questions have been raised about how the Laura Babcock investigation was originally handled by Toronto police, who have been severely criticized for not following up on a mobile phone bill showing that the last eight phone calls she made were to Dellen Millard.
http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/tag/laura-babcock

Dellen Millard &#8211; the man Laura Babcock had called eight times before she mysteriously disappeared and who would later stand accused of her murder. Their brief discussion left Mr. Lerner feeling deeply uneasy.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/what-if-game-haunts-babcock-friend/article18832997/

In late July, Babcock&#8217;s last phone bill arrived in the mail. It showed no calls made after July 3. Her last eight phone calls that day and the previous day were to Millard. She told friends she and Millard were sleeping together.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...ck_leaves_lingering_questions_for_police.html

On Saturday Babcock&#8217;s former boyfriend Shawn Lerner told CityNews Millard was the last person Laura contacted on her cellphone before she went missing last June.

Lerner said about a month after her disappearance Babcock&#8217;s cellphone bill came in the mail. The bill apparently showed eight phone calls, including the last call she made before vanishing, were to Millard.

http://www.citynews.ca/2013/05/17/family-says-missing-toronto-woman-knew-dellen-millard/

 

[Alethea Dice]

The information is consistent DM was the last person to have phone contact with LB before she disappeared. How coincidental is it LE stated they believe the last day she had contact with DM is the day she was murdered. And shortly thereafter someone from MA ordered, and paid for an animal incinerator which showed on DM's farmland. The same incinerator LE believe was used to burned TB beyond recognition, the same incinerator in which LE suggested was used to obliterate LB.

Many questions have been raised about how the Laura Babcock investigation was originally handled by Toronto police, who have been severely criticized for not following up on a mobile phone bill showing that the last eight phone calls she made were to Dellen Millard.
http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/tag/laura-babcock

Dellen Millard &#8211; the man Laura Babcock had called eight times before she mysteriously disappeared and who would later stand accused of her murder. Their brief discussion left Mr. Lerner feeling deeply uneasy.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/what-if-game-haunts-babcock-friend/article18832997/

In late July, Babcock&#8217;s last phone bill arrived in the mail. It showed no calls made after July 3. Her last eight phone calls that day and the previous day were to Millard. She told friends she and Millard were sleeping together.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...ck_leaves_lingering_questions_for_police.html

On Saturday Babcock&#8217;s former boyfriend Shawn Lerner told CityNews Millard was the last person Laura contacted on her cellphone before she went missing last June.

Lerner said about a month after her disappearance Babcock&#8217;s cellphone bill came in the mail. The bill apparently showed eight phone calls, including the last call she made before vanishing, were to Millard.

http://www.citynews.ca/2013/05/17/family-says-missing-toronto-woman-knew-dellen-millard/

My post was simply about billing dates and "final" bills. I wasn't disputing whether she made any further calls.

Anyone who has had a cell phone knows that the bills don't just stop because the phone hasn't been used. Even once you've cancelled it, you still get a final reconciliation bill. So regardless of what The Star says, it was not her "last" phone bill. And we know the CityNews article is wrong because it says "before she went missing last June", which would imply no calls in July. SL said the last day he spoke to her was July 2nd.