General Discussion and Theories #4

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  • #361
Why is it important to some that LB not be considered a girlfriend of DM, when she was?

Is it because

On average, every six days a woman in Canada is killed by her intimate partner.

About half (49%) of all female murder victims in Canada are killed by a former or current intimate partner.

http://canadianwomen.org/facts-about-violence

We know DM and LB were intimate and that LB is dead.
 
  • #362
There are a ton of links referring to LB as girlfriend or ex-girlfriend, because that's what she was.



Sexually transmitted diseases still follow the same rules as they always did. It's never been safe to indiscriminately have sex with many partners. LB was not a one-night stand; DM "kept her around and gave her drugs". http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...a-death-faces-2-more-murder-charges-1.2605741 LB was DM's sexual partner and girlfriend.



But neither are they good people, these non-psychiatrically-diagnosed-but-socially-labelled "psychos".



It just shows that society considered LB to be DM's girlfriend, just as CN was.

Your link doesn't seem to support that. It says:

Toronto police have said that Babcock and Millard were "romantically linked" but not in a "traditional dating relationship."

A former acquaintance of Millard's, who says she had attended almost two dozen parties at his home in the Toronto suburb of Etobicoke, told CBC News that Millard and Noudga were dating.

"But [Millard] and Laura [Babcock] were just fooling around," she said. "He kept Laura around and gave her drugs."

So I guess the question could also be asked - Why is it important to some that LB be considered a girlfriend of DM when she wasn't? She may have been a girl friend, but fooling around doesn't make someone a "girlfriend" in the traditional definition. Maybe wishful thinking for one or the other, but wishes don't always come true.

JMO

JMO
 
  • #363
  • #364
Seems to me that it's a form of victim blaming to deny that LB was DM's girlfriend and insist she was nothing to him.

A suspect accused of kidnapping and killing an Ancaster family man now also stands accused of killing his own father and his ex-girlfriend.

http://www.cp24.com/news/bosma-murder-suspect-charged-with-killing-missing-woman-father-1.1770155

Police have also laid new charges of first-degree murder against Millard and Smich in the death of Millard's former girlfriend, Laura Babcock, who went missing in July, 2012.

http://www.guelphmercury.com/news-s...rd-s-girlfriend-allegedly-helped-him-escape-/

Former aviation whiz now also charged with killing father, Wayne, and ex-girlfriend Laura Babcock

http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/news/story/1.2605821

New documents filed in court and reported by the Toronto Star reveal Laura Babcock, the apparent former girlfriend of Dellen Millard, had died days before she was reported missing in the summer of 2012.

http://www.680news.com/2014/04/12/e...der-dead-before-even-reported-missing-report/

Dellen Millard has been charged with murdering both his father Wayne — long ago cremated since his 2012 death — and murdering his former girlfriend, Toronto woman Laura Babcock, last seen that same year.

http://www.metronews.ca/news/canada...it-be-first-degree-murder-without-a-body.html
 
  • #365
It should be interesting to see DM's appearance on September 3.

By July 2014, all the good eating at Barton St. Jail had made the guy a bit pudgy:

Millard has put on a little weight, and has grown a beard along with longer hair.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/bosma-case-pretrial-set-for-sept-9-1.2711655

Less than a year later "He looked emaciated" http://www.chch.com/judge-quashes-ban-on-media-public-at-bosma-pre-trial-proceeding/ ...no doubt as his guilty conscience eats away at him.
 
  • #366
Tim's Tribute (In memory of Tim Bosma) is holding their second annual charity golf event on Friday September 18, 2015

Check here for more info (spaces are limited):

https://timstribute.ca/golf
 
  • #367
Seems to me that it's a form of victim blaming to deny that LB was DM's girlfriend and insist she was nothing to him.

Sorry, I'm not seeing it. How does being a friend but not in a traditional dating relationship bring any kind of blame on to the victim?

JMO
 
  • #368
DM's ex-significant others and not-so-significant others seems to be a sensitive issue on here for some reason. Just something I noticed. JMO
 
  • #369
DM's ex-significant others and not-so-significant others seems to be a sensitive issue on here for some reason. Just something I noticed. JMO

I think those who deny DM's guilt are in for a big shock when this goes to trial.
 
  • #370
In psychology, denial is "a defense mechanism in which the existence of unpleasant internal or external realities is denied and kept out of conscious awareness. By keeping the stressors out of consciousness, they are prevented from causing anxiety."

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Denial+(psychology)

Can you imagine the terrible rebound anxiety some are going to face when DM is sentenced to life in prison, solitary confinement? I hope that appropriate counselling will be available to all those so affected.
 
  • #371
I think those who deny DM's guilt are in for a big shock when this goes to trial.

Who is denying his guilt? Waiting to see what comes out at trial is not denying guilt.
 
  • #372
In psychology, denial is "a defense mechanism in which the existence of unpleasant internal or external realities is denied and kept out of conscious awareness. By keeping the stressors out of consciousness, they are prevented from causing anxiety."

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Denial+(psychology)

Can you imagine the terrible rebound anxiety some are going to face when DM is sentenced to life in prison, solitary confinement? I hope that appropriate counselling will be available to all those so affected.

Is that why it is so important to you that LB is labelled his "girlfriend"? Sorry, I'm just being sarcastic. But turning this into an issue of what people think about his guilt is a pretty big stretch.

I also hope couselling is available, regardless of the outcome, to all those who are that emotionally involved in the case.
 
  • #373
Who is denying his guilt? Waiting to see what comes out at trial is not denying guilt.

Well I'm glad you're not denying DM's guilt, then.

Somehow I don't "see" that the deniers are going to change their position during the trial.
 
  • #374
It is interesting though, that more than 29 months into the process, not one shred of exculpatory evidence has emerged in DM's favour.

<modsnip>
 
  • #375
Well I'm glad you're not denying DM's guilt, then.

Somehow I don't "see" that the deniers are going to change their position during the trial.

Snooper, is that denying, defending, one or the other, or both? IMHO I don't care if positions change a million times from now until the guilty rot in hell and are eventually taken out in a body bag. As long as there is justice for the three murdered victims in this case and their families.

Had you followed the Tori S case Snooper, same shat, different case...only in Canada eh?! ;) During MR's trial, staunch deniers/defenders/fence sitters were pretty quiet and dropped like flies kwim. And we all know where the two guilty are in Tori's case, exactly where they belong. BTW Snooper, I know you like numbers; MR had been in jail/prison for 2293 days and TLM 2330 days, both just over six years of their sentences and hopefully at least another 9000 more to go. If DM is convicted of the three murders, he's only got about 27000 more days to serve...but who's counting?! :)

For heaven sakes DM's 30th birthday is tomorrow and if he ends up getting the special title of serial killer, serving all full 75 years, he just might be able to celebrate his 103rd birthday a free man. I suggest DM start eating better first though. Maybe someone will visit him and bring him a birthday cake. The aught to cheer him up for a while.

Speaking of boyfriend, girlfriend...MR denied being TLM's boyfriend also even though they were having sex in his car, motel room and wherever else, and within hours after they met. She was adamant they were a couple and she was in love with him. She couldn't believe she had finally found a good man, her knight in shining armour :sick: To MR...well he denies it, all of it, even denied abducting, raping and murdering Tori. Oh BTW his past shows he is/was a chronic liar and a sexual deviant (who also did many internet searches for 🤬🤬🤬🤬 including child 🤬🤬🤬🤬 days before Tori was abducted) so....but he knew TLM would do anything for him for a little bit of love. Sometimes history repeats itself you know. Wonder if DM wanted LB to do something nefarious, against the law, maybe he wanted her to murder someone for him? Did she refuse and DM feared she might go to LE or confide in a close friend? Did DM feel the need to shut her up? TWT.
ALL MOO.

In a decision released Jan. 31, the judge ruled the jurors would never hear that forensic examination of Mr. Rafferty&#8217;s laptop revealed that in the months leading up to the eight-year-old&#8217;s slaying, he had done Google searches for &#8220;underage rape,&#8221; &#8220;real underage rape&#8221; and &#8220;best program to download child 🤬🤬🤬🤬,&#8221; or that he had recently possessed substantial amounts of child 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬, including videos depicting &#8220;how-to instructions for child sexual assault&#8221; and others with what prosecutors called &#8220;a disturbing instructional purpose&#8221; and even several &#8220;snuff&#8221; films.
http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/tori-stafford-michael-rafferty-evidence
 
  • #376
Snooper, is that denying, defending, one or the other, or both? IMHO I don't care if positions change a million times from now until the guilty rot in hell and are eventually taken out in a body bag. As long as there is justice for the three murdered victims in this case and their families.

From what I've seen, most times it's neither. Some people just don't feel it's necessary to, for example, armchair analyze one's mental state, exaggerate the facts or misrepresent the facts, or to ridicule how someone looks with no apparent purpose IMO other than to make the accused look worse. If someone is charged with murder, how much worse can it get?

Had you followed the Tori S case Snooper, same shat, different case...only in Canada eh?! During MR's trial, staunch deniers/defenders/fence sitters were pretty quiet and dropped like flies kwim. And we all know where the two guilty are in Tori's case, exactly where they belong. BTW Snooper, I know you like numbers; MR had been in jail/prison for 2293 days and TLM 2330 days, both just over six years of their sentences and hopefully at least another 9000 more to go. If DM is convicted of the three murders, he's only got about 27000 more days to serve...but who's counting?!

Apparently, you're counting. ;)

You keep bringing up this up about MR's trial, so I decided to take a look at the old Tori threads. It appears that about 98% or 99% of the non-defenders also dropped like flies. I wonder why that was? Perhaps because the trial ended with the verdict. Unless and until an appeal is heard, there was nothing left to discuss.

I'm not sure why that trial keeps coming up in the conversation. As far as I can see, the cases have no relevance to each other and nothing in common other than the murder charge.

For heaven sakes DM's 30th birthday is tomorrow and if he ends up getting the special title of serial killer, serving all full 75 years, he just might be able to celebrate his 103rd birthday a free man. I suggest DM start eating better first though. Maybe someone will visit him and bring him a birthday cake. The aught to cheer him up for a while.

Why is it important whether DM is gaining weight or losing weight? How do you know if he even likes cake? Or is this just unnecessary sarcastic ridicule to poke fun at the accused?

I have never posted my thoughts or opinions on DM's actual guilt or innocence. I have chosen to wait for the trial and see what comes out. And I, for one, don't really appreciate it when others assume to know how I feel. It should not be necessary to make insinuations against other posters just because they have a different opinion on some aspects of what is being discussed.

All JMO
 
  • #377
From what I've seen, most times it's neither. Some people just don't feel it's necessary to, for example, armchair analyze one's mental state, exaggerate the facts or misrepresent the facts, or to ridicule how someone looks with no apparent purpose IMO other than to make the accused look worse. If someone is charged with murder, how much worse can it get?

They could be dead like their victim(s)?

Apparently, you're counting. ;)

You keep bringing up this up about MR's trial, so I decided to take a look at the old Tori threads. It appears that about 98% or 99% of the non-defenders also dropped like flies. I wonder why that was? Perhaps because the trial ended with the verdict. Unless and until an appeal is heard, there was nothing left to discuss.

I'm not sure why that trial keeps coming up in the conversation. As far as I can see, the cases have no relevance to each other and nothing in common other than the murder charge.

Personally I appreciate the insight given by others who have followed other trials in detail, as this is my first trial I have followed so intently. It makes me recognize the common elements.

Why is it important whether DM is gaining weight or losing weight? How do you know if he even likes cake? Or is this just unnecessary sarcastic ridicule to poke fun at the accused?

I have never posted my thoughts or opinions on DM's actual guilt or innocence. I have chosen to wait for the trial and see what comes out. And I, for one, don't really appreciate it when others assume to know how I feel. It should not be necessary to make insinuations against other posters just because they have a different opinion on some aspects of what is being discussed.

All JMO

So you have never posted your thoughts or opinions despite that this post is not supported by links and all only your opinion? But you recognize that you have posted differing opinions. Face it, each person's opinion and position is clear through their posts. I don't think it is fair to say that any poster here has hidden their opinions by posting their opinions.
 
  • #378
They could be dead like their victim(s)?

That goes without saying. I thought it was clear that I was talking about the accused, not the victims. Sorry if you missed that.

So you have never posted your thoughts or opinions despite that this post is not supported by links and all only your opinion? But you recognize that you have posted differing opinions. Face it, each person's opinion and position is clear through their posts. I don't think it is fair to say that any poster here has hidden their opinions by posting their opinions.

Pardon? You are expecting me to post links to support the fact that I have never posted my thoughts or opinions "on DM's actual guilt or innocence"?? Yes, each person's opinion and position is clear through their posts, "on some aspects of what is being discussed". That doesn't mean they believe the accused is necessarily innocent. Please don't stress only a portion of my sentences in order to change what I actually said.
 
  • #379
From what I've seen, most times it's neither. Some people just don't feel it's necessary to, for example, armchair analyze one's mental state, exaggerate the facts or misrepresent the facts, or to ridicule how someone looks with no apparent purpose IMO other than to make the accused look worse. If someone is charged with murder, how much worse can it get?



Apparently, you're counting. ;)

You keep bringing up this up about MR's trial, so I decided to take a look at the old Tori threads. It appears that about 98% or 99% of the non-defenders also dropped like flies. I wonder why that was? Perhaps because the trial ended with the verdict. Unless and until an appeal is heard, there was nothing left to discuss.

I'm not sure why that trial keeps coming up in the conversation. As far as I can see, the cases have no relevance to each other and nothing in common other than the murder charge.



Why is it important whether DM is gaining weight or losing weight? How do you know if he even likes cake? Or is this just unnecessary sarcastic ridicule to poke fun at the accused?

I have never posted my thoughts or opinions on DM's actual guilt or innocence. I have chosen to wait for the trial and see what comes out. And I, for one, don't really appreciate it when others assume to know how I feel. It should not be necessary to make insinuations against other posters just because they have a different opinion on some aspects of what is being discussed.

All JMO

Apparently you're not a mind reader AD. You don't know what I (or any other member) knows about this case or the people involved, therefore one should not speculate about, nor over analyse me, nor should you be so quick to speculate I am exaggerating or misrepresenting facts. When I have a theory or speculation I always make it clear so HTH. Who's ridiculing his appearance? The reporters are the ones in the courtroom taking notice on his physical appearance and publishing it for the public. Just because some, actually all of us, theorize why he appears emaciated, greasy and unkempt and possibly smells atrocious, doesn't mean it's ridicule. BTW it's his choice how he appears and maybe he's quite liking the attention focused on his appearance and published for the whole wide world to read. I oppened [sic] up the news paper [sic], to yet another article about me, and the Bosma case. As usual there&#8217;s almost nothing new to say. They just reprint the same old stuff over and over.

You ask, If someone is charged with murder, how much worse can it get? My answer is, is that it depends what side of the fence one is sitting on and if the accused is actually guilty of one, two and/or three murders. I have no sympathy for murderers and I doubt the mass majority of the public has any sympathy for them either. Just because a verdict hasn't been reached yet, doesn't mean the accused is innocent. There is a legitimate reason why DM is STILL sitting in jail and the AG has ruled the PM to be bypassed. Through the whole investigation and over two years later, it's not looking like DM was framed and/or wrongly accused. Matter of fact, it's looking pretty apparent he murdered three people with whom he had connections to, we'll just have to wait and see what the trial brings via evidence.

Obviously I was counting, glad you picked up on that AD ;)

Apparently your calculations are off and you likely didn't check out a couple other threads such as "Remembering Tori" thread, with those who still post, thank and revisit her forum when there is new information in the MSM, or a milestone such as birthday or anniversary of her death etc. Obviously not the deniers/defenders/fence sitters revisit, but those who were truly seeking justice for Tori revisit. I make comparisons between the two cases because there is more than just murder to compare and it's my prerogative. If you choice to, you can go back and reread all the posts to gather why I've made those comparisons. There's more than just murder to compare; partners in crime, womanisers or more than one female on the go at the same time, drugs, cell phones, computers, video/surveillance evidence, victims' bodies found secluded on rural properties, money (recalling MR living off the proceeds of CS Girlfriend says she became an escort and gave Michael Rafferty the cash.), DM may have murdered his father for the inheritance, denial of relationships with women, etc., etc.,etc., just to list a few similarities/comparisons off the top. Oh which brings me to...has DM denied having a girlfriend/boyfriend relationship with LB? There is nothing from him denying such in the MSM that I can find. For all we know, he may very well admit and take offence to people suggesting he used her only for sex. Maybe some shouldn't be so quick to deny LB and DM's relationship of girlfriend/boyfriend.

You said, I have never posted my thoughts or opinions on DM's actual guilt or innocence. I have chosen to wait for the trial and see what comes out.
And that's your prerogative just as it's mine to view the accused as guilty. HTH.

You may be right AD, maybe he doesn't like cake because it could be fattening like pasta.
ALL MOO.
 
  • #380
Apparently you're not a mind reader AD. You don't know what I (or any other member) knows about this case or the people involved, therefore one should not speculate about, nor over analyse me, nor should you be so quick to speculate I am exaggerating or misrepresenting facts. When I have a theory or speculation I always make it clear so HTH. Who's ridiculing his appearance? The reporters are the ones in the courtroom taking notice on his physical appearance and publishing it for the public. Just because some, actually all of us, theorize why he appears emaciated, greasy and unkempt and possibly smells atrocious, doesn't mean it's ridicule.

I'm not sure what is meant by the apparently not a mind reader part of this, but it can be said that anyone who mocks or gives veiled speculative assumptions or suggests by insinuating with unsubstantiated comments serves only to implicate themselves in a judgmental and facetious way IMO. I don't believe the reporters that were in the courtroom made any reference to a stench or the possibility of one. That would be totally speculative, unsubstantiated and quite possibly a low blow attack on someone who may well be innocent, as the trial has not yet taken place and the assumed smelly one may well have had smelled like fresh linen for all we know.





BTW it's his choice how he appears and maybe he's quite liking the attention focused on his appearance and published for the whole wide world to read. I oppened [sic] up the news paper [sic], to yet another article about me, and the Bosma case. As usual there&#8217;s almost nothing new to say. They just reprint the same old stuff over and over.


It may well not be his choice how he appears. I don''t believe they allow walk in closets in jail and usually they have one set of clothes kept in their property. Who knows whether or not he had been allowed a shower/shave and pedicure before he was taken to court, he may well have been taken to the courthouse shortly after breakfast, leaving no time for the bathroom routine other than the necessary relieving of oneself.

You ask, If someone is charged with murder, how much worse can it get? My answer is, is that it depends what side of the fence one is sitting on and if the accused is actually guilty of one, two and/or three murders.

Or if they are innocent !!! I'd say that if someone was innocent it must be absolutely soul destroying to be accused of such a crime. Murder can take many forms and as yet we have no idea of what will be revealed at trial. I have known of someone who killed a stepfather and placed in jail for an eventual 5 years. The small sentence was simply due to the reasoning behind the murder, of which I am not prepared to discuss, simply to mention and show that for some, being in jail can sometimes be devastating when the person knows they had no other choice at the time. Not saying this is in any way similar to the case being discussed here, but until trial we have no way of knowing details that may be pertinent.


I have no sympathy for murderers and I doubt the mass majority of the public has any sympathy for them either. Just because a verdict hasn't been reached yet, doesn't mean the accused is innocent. There is a legitimate reason why DM is STILL sitting in jail and the AG has ruled the PM to be bypassed. Through the whole investigation and over two years later, it's not looking like DM was framed and/or wrongly accused. Matter of fact, it's looking pretty apparent he murdered three people with whom he had connections to, we'll just have to wait and see what the trial brings via evidence.

As said above, each case is different and until we have details it is my belief that we should not be trying to humiliate and try to make others believe in guilt when innocence is still a possibility. That's not to say that someone isn't guilty, it is to ensure that all possibilities remain as consideration. IMO

Obviously I was counting, glad you picked up on that AD ;)
Apparently your calculations are off and you likely didn't check out a couple other threads such as "Remembering Tori" thread, with those who still post, thank and revisit her forum when there is new information in the MSM, or a milestone such as birthday or anniversary of her death etc. Obviously not the deniers/defenders/fence sitters revisit, but those who were truly seeking justice for Tori revisit. I make comparisons between the two cases because there is more than just murder to compare and it's my prerogative. If you choice to, you can go back and reread all the posts to gather why I've made those comparisons. There's more than just murder to compare; partners in crime, womanisers or more than one female on the go at the same time, drugs, cell phones, computers, video/surveillance evidence, victims' bodies found secluded on rural properties, money (recalling MR living off the proceeds of CS Girlfriend says she became an escort and gave Michael Rafferty the cash.), DM may have murdered his father for the inheritance, denial of relationships with women, etc., etc.,etc., just to list a few similarities/comparisons off the top. Oh which brings me to...has DM denied having a girlfriend/boyfriend relationship with LB? There is nothing from him denying such in the MSM that I can find. For all we know, he may very well admit and take offence to people suggesting he used her only for sex. Maybe some shouldn't be so quick to deny LB and DM's relationship of girlfriend/boyfriend.

TS case is not similar to this case IMO. I actually believe MR was involved and without his involvement, TLMcC may not have had the drive or emotion to murder. JMO. I also agree that MR should appeal, but not for reasons of absolute innocence. Either way I always wonder why that case is brought up here as it detracts from this case when it does. IMO. This is my opinion

You said, I have never posted my thoughts or opinions on DM's actual guilt or innocence. I have chosen to wait for the trial and see what comes out.
And that's your prerogative just as it's mine to view the accused as guilty. HTH.

If everyone viewed an accused as guilty, there would be no point of trials, courts and no such word as justice IMO. Not to mention it would be impossible to find anyone that met the standards to be a juror.

You may be right AD, maybe he doesn't like cake because it could be fattening like pasta.
ALL MOO.

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