General Discussion and Theories

[bessie]

Can someone tell me the author's name on this Globe and Mail article I've used up my free articles and can't read anyone on the Globe for free. TIA

JILL MAHONEY and KATHRYN BLAZE CARLSON

 

[jash]

Farmland without any critters is highly unlikely ! JMO

By "critters" do you mean wild animals, or farm animals/livestock?

 

[Snoofo]

Wasn't the farm leased out to neighbours? Does anyone remember reading that?

 

[matou]

After Mr. Millard bought the bucolic plot of land south of Kitchener in May, 2011, neighbours said livestock were never seen on the property. “There was definitely no animals there,” said Tom Sherk, who drives past the farm every day.

NO ANIMALS.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rge-in-mysterious-bosma-case/article12757899/

Thanks for the tip, I can see the article in another browser.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Wasn't the farm leased out to neighbours? Does anyone remember reading that?

Kavanagh says 76 acres of the farm are leased out to a farmer who has planted crops. The rest of the land is mostly wooded.

http://www.cambridgetimes.ca/news-story/3369448-toronto-police-search-millard-farm-with-special-radar-equipment/

 

[greenthumb]

Wasn't the farm leased out to neighbours? Does anyone remember reading that?

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/3240835-toronto-police-search-millard-farm-with-special-radar-equipment/

Yes, part leased, part wooded -

The 102-acre farm near Waterloo belongs to Dellen Millard, ...

Kavanagh says 76 acres of the farm are leased out to a farmer who has planted crops. The rest of the land is mostly wooded.

 

[Carli]

....and DM purchasing the incinerator which was used in the murder, what is your theory on DM not anticipating a murder?

What a relief - albeit an unhappy one - to hear this! I haven't been following this website closely for awhile. Has LE confirmed the use of the incinerator in disposing of TB remains then? OMG How horrible. Do you have the link, please?

 

[expat cdn]

What a relief - albeit an unhappy one - to hear this! I haven't been following this website closely for awhile. Has LE confirmed the use of the incinerator in disposing of TB remains then? OMG How horrible. Do you have the link, please?

LE have not confirmed the use of the incinerator for the disposal of TB's remains. Though, since LE removed the incinerator they must suspect it was used.

 

[Carli]

LE have not confirmed the use of the incinerator for the disposal of TB's remains. Though, since LE removed the incinerator they must suspect it was used.

Oh I see. (I think I see). So we don't know for sure that it was used in the murder then? Yet MSM also seems convinced, so maybe they have some inside information or something? I wouldn't necessarily conclude that the removal of something by LE necessarily means anything other than they're carrying out their investigation, IMO. Has it ever actually been confirmed that TB's remains were found at the farm?

 

[flipflop]

Oh I see. (I think I see). So we don't know for sure that it was used in the murder then? Yet MSM also seems convinced, so maybe they have some inside information or something? I wouldn't necessarily conclude that the removal of something by LE necessarily means anything other than they're carrying out their investigation, IMO. Has it ever actually been confirmed that TB's remains were found at the farm?

LE will not release any confirmations at this point as there is a publication ban!

 

[Archangel7]

LE have not confirmed the use of the incinerator for the disposal of TB's remains. Though, since LE removed the incinerator they must suspect it was used.

I believe so too and pretty much so does legal law concerning search and seizure.

They found TB burned. It would have been pretty obvious whether the burn was a douse and burn or the result of an animal incinerator. Test would reveal accelerant if used and the incinerator not used.

Regardless the LE would be remiss not to seize the incinerator for evidence in a murder investigation with a burned body, an animal incinerator with no animals, on a trailer(special request, normally require a slab per company ad) on a semi abandoned farm.

Also if a perp had an incinerator and a body, why on earth would he douse and burn when there is an incinerator setting there if the body was burned there.

The police are likely thinking that also, so seized it for evidence and will let the testing say yay or nay.

All JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

Oh I see. (I think I see). So we don't know for sure that it was used in the murder then? Yet MSM also seems convinced, so maybe they have some inside information or something? I wouldn't necessarily conclude that the removal of something by LE necessarily means anything other than they're carrying out their investigation, IMO. Has it ever actually been confirmed that TB's remains were found at the farm?

MSM was reporting a couple of weeks after the body was found that it was found on the farm. Whether that was confirmed or not, it seems like a safe assumption since that's where the heavy search was happening at the time.

Toronto homicide investigators descended Tuesday on the farm where Tim Bosma’s remains were found this month.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/05/28/tim_bosma_toronto_police_homicide_unit_execute_search_warrant_at_suspect_dellen_millards_farm.html

I think it would be remiss of LE not to remove and examine the incinerator, whether it was used in the murder or not, considering the body was burned.

 

[Shaky pi]

I believe so too and pretty much so does legal law concerning search and seizure.

They found TB burned. It would have been pretty obvious whether the burn was a douse and burn or the result of an animal incinerator. Test would reveal accelerant if used and the incinerator not used.

Regardless the LE would be remiss not to seize the incinerator for evidence in a murder investigation with a burned body, an animal incinerator with no animals, on a trailer(special request, normally require a slab per company ad) on a semi abandoned farm.

Also if a perp had an incinerator and a body, why on earth would he douse and burn when there is an incinerator setting there if the body was burned there.

The police are likely thinking that also, so seized it for evidence and will let the testing say yay or nay.

All JMO

Douse and burn never really works , burns till accellerent burns off , heavy service burns, little deep tissue , if the elliminator used , thats a whole new scene , even an hr at 800 drgrees , heavy deep comtinuous burning at high temp , not alot left, not alot of clues , unless shot , hard to prove actual cause of death , in my opinion cops really need cause of death to cement their case

 

[Snoofo]

....and DM purchasing the incinerator which was used in the murder, what is your theory on DM not anticipating a murder?

MSM reports the arrangements for the incinerator purchase were made by an employee. This fact fits in nicely in the "Innocent Dupe" thread.

I also thought DM rented out part of the land to neighbours.

Consider that it is possible DM has not been to the farm land since an incinerator was purchased and situated there. Its possible the Millardair employee mentioned in MSM was a chop shop operative whom is part of this larger scale OC that may have framed DM? If he wasn't actually the buyer then he very well may not have anticipated murder.

Or consider someone from the shady group asked him if it was ok to leave an incinerator there temporarily for the disposal of unwanted car parts that could be identified and DM wanting once again to be the cool guy who shares said ok, or he was afraid to say no?

We don't know whether the incinerator was used but we also don't know for certain if DM (not just his name!) actually ordered it and knew of its existence.

 

[Archangel7]

Douse and burn never really works , burns till accellerent burns off , heavy service burns, little deep tissue , if the elliminator used , thats a whole new scene , even an hr at 800 drgrees , heavy deep comtinuous burning at high temp , not alot left, not alot of clues , unless shot , hard to prove actual cause of death , in my opinion cops really need cause of death to cement their case

Teeth will likely determine temperature among other things if the incinerator was used. From that other things become apparent.

The cause of death isn't needed.
Besides....
If the incinerator was used, it has a small opening, think about it. The jury won't care if LE can't determine COD, a whole intact body won't fit via a reported 12x20" hole. So they will understand that concept.

If the incinerator wasn't used plenty evidence will be there.
JMO

 

[bessie]

Oh I see. (I think I see). So we don't know for sure that it was used in the murder then? Yet MSM also seems convinced, so maybe they have some inside information or something? I wouldn't necessarily conclude that the removal of something by LE necessarily means anything other than they're carrying out their investigation, IMO. Has it ever actually been confirmed that TB's remains were found at the farm?

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209336"]MEDIA, DOCUMENTS, TIMELINE **NO Discussion** - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Snoofo]

Other than possibility of it housing a chop shop, was there any confirmation of evidence of the murder found at the hangar?
I can't find anything in MSM thread unless i just missed it.

So evidence linking DM found at farm and MB driveway only.

 

[SnooperDuper]

MSM reports the arrangements for the incinerator purchase were made by an employee. This fact fits in nicely in the "Innocent Dupe" thread.

Well hang on there, there have been two articles that described the incinerator in depth, on by the Sun's Joe Warmington, and the one by the Globe out today. They differ quite a bit!

Sun
http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/16/police-investigate-incinerators-role-in-tim-bosma-slaying

Globe
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/chilling-details-emerge-in-mysterious-bosma-case/article12757899/

Model of the incinerator:
Sun: Eliminator SN250 model
Globe: SuperNova SN500 model

Who bought it?
Sun: “An ‘Eliminator incinerator’ designed to dispose of livestock remains was purchased by Dellen Millard in July 2012,” said a police officer involved in the case. “We would like to know for what purpose he decided to make this purchase.”
Globe: An employee of the Millard family’s aviation company, Millardair, handled the transaction around July of last year, Mr. Penner said.

How much?
Sun: Information obtained by the Sun indicates Millard purchased the propane-heated incinerator for $6,950 from a Manitoba distributor of the U.S.-made product.
Globe: Soon after, the unit was shipped for about $15,000.

Who did the reporter talk to from the company?
Sun: Bill Penner and Tom Cook
Globe: Bill Penner

 

[JPC]

Farmland without any critters is highly unlikely ! JMO

And spending $15k to dispose of the critters seems oddly excessive for a property that wasn't currently inhabited.

 

[lanman]

Well hang on there, there have been two articles that described the incinerator in depth, on by the Sun's Joe Warmington, and the one by the Globe out today. They differ quite a bit!

Sun
http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/16/police-investigate-incinerators-role-in-tim-bosma-slaying

Globe
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/chilling-details-emerge-in-mysterious-bosma-case/article12757899/

Model of the incinerator:
Sun: Eliminator SN250 model
Globe: SuperNova SN500 model

Who bought it?
Sun: “An ‘Eliminator incinerator’ designed to dispose of livestock remains was purchased by Dellen Millard in July 2012,” said a police officer involved in the case. “We would like to know for what purpose he decided to make this purchase.”
Globe: An employee of the Millard family’s aviation company, Millardair, handled the transaction around July of last year, Mr. Penner said.

How much?
Sun: Information obtained by the Sun indicates Millard purchased the propane-heated incinerator for $6,950 from a Manitoba distributor of the U.S.-made product.
Globe: Soon after, the unit was shipped for about $15,000.

Who did the reporter talk to from the company?
Sun: Bill Penner and Tom Cook
Globe: Bill Penner

Sun article specifically states that the SN250 was found on the farm.
Globe article describes the SN500, but does not state specifically that this was the model that was purchased.

Sun article says incinerator was ~$7000, Globe about $15,000 shipped, so maybe $15,000 included the trailer, propane tank, taxes, shipping etc.

Who knows. It's interesting that the stories are different, but I doubt it will have any effect on the outcome of the trial.