General Discussion Thread #1 -Bail Hearing

[Estelle]

One of the many things I'm wondering at this point: Why did he carry Reeva downstairs prior to paramedics arriving? It seems odd to me that he would remove her from the scene of the "accident". Was he hoping to prevent anyone from viewing the scene?

Anyone knows that you should not remove a body until paramedics arrive. IMO she was already dead but no one can prove that. He should have done CPR in the bathroom. How long had she been dead eg after last shot?

As he is a narcissist, he would have wanted to look like the caring hero as in "Gone with the Wind".

The blood most probably repelled him and he did not want people going up there to see how bloody it really was.

Moving the body downstairs was a distraction and gave Carl and lawyer a chance to check things out, cover up and help him with his story.

He may have had his car engine running to take her to hospital himself to give the impression of caring. I read that somewhere.

 

[Wondergirl]

More here:

The defense said Steenkamp’s bladder was empty, consistent with having gone to the toilet, as claimed by Pistorius.

It also emerged that Botha had prior dealings with Pistorius, having attended a 2009 incident at the house at which the athlete was arrested but not charged.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/...efense-exposes-cracks-in-police-evidence?lite

 

[Wondergirl]

This pictograph has the toilet sitting on a different angle.

http://soletron.com/oscar-pistorius-swears-in-court-he-didnt-mean-to-kill-her-details/

 

[Estelle]

Those images are fantastic. Totally different than what I pictured. One interesting detail is that the window was open.

I mentioned before if she had fallen asleep. What brought that to mind are several things.

He obviously broke down the door, so if he was enraged why wouldn't she have called for help on the phone, even a friend. If she ran to escape from him why not dial.

If she had ear buds or something, she may have listened to soothing music while in the bathroom and not have heard him. If she was blocked out listening to music she may have been making odd sounds that were twisted by the acoustics to seem weird.

If she ran into the bathroom to escape him, why would she not just lock the bigger bathroom door, why only the toilet door which is a dead end?


What is the motive? If he's roid raged out of his mind then maybe, but what motive? Jealousy? He's a very handsome sexy guy, he'd have no trouble getting a new woman.

If she cheated on him, maybe but then murder? This way?

Why not cover it up better? If he wanted to kill her he could have thrown her over the balcony or knocked her in the tub and drowned her or something like that.

It just seems to weird to me.

In South Africa, it appears that the intruder story would go down much better than most other places in the world besides the US to be credible. In fact, IMO he still hopes to get off scott-free whereas with other types of murders it would be more difficult unless he hid the body and the crime scene was cleaned up. But the gunshots gave him away as others heard them and called police.

In Australia, the latest is balcony murders supposed to be suicides but we have gun laws so the intruder scenario rarely happens unless in the country on a property.

 

[Estelle]

He should have called security as soon as he heard the noise. What type of noise was it?

 

[Courage100]

Is he suggesting that the intruder decided to use the toilet?

 

[Estelle]

According to Botha's testimony, the witness reported hearing two people fighting/talking loudly. Nowhere in OP's affidavit does he state that anyone but himself uttered a sound. How does the witness's report reconcile with what OP claims occurred? If the witness is to be believed, more than one person's voice was heard from 2 - 3 a.m.

It looks to me that his lawyer has advised him not to cover that noise aspect and could have told OP that it would not fit in with his intruder story and that they would be too far away so he would be able to discount it. His story has to be consistent with the intruder scenario.

 

[Chewy]

This is a ridiculous lie though. there were certainly less incriminating ways.

And you totally leap frogged over the most important detail IMO. She was in a bathroom with the door locked and a PHONE and she didn't call anyone? Forget about fearing he'd kill her, if he was that violently out of control why not call a friend?

It's too big of a gap for me.

His side has some major issues as well, but one thing I DO understand is that he was relying on his hearing in the blackened room. I am hearing impaired and hearing sounds is something that can really be confusing if you think the sound is coming from one place.

If he placed her via sound as on the bed, then he'd totally convinced his mind that she was on the bed. He may have even heard breathing or noises coming from her that were totally imagined.

Here's another detail btw that I considered. If she had gotten up to use the bathroom and fell asleep on the toilet, maybe leaned over with her face on her knees, and he shot her, the compact nature of her position and the 'relaxed" state of the body prior to shooting her would make her moving around less likely.

If she was sitting on the toilet (granted we only have his word) when he found her, than IMO this is kinda weird. Because if she was tensed up and terrified and then was shot in the head, chest and arm, her body would have jerked and collapsed.

 

[Estelle]

There is a major misrepresentation in the above graphic. Pistorius is able to walk on the stumps of his legs. The references to him "crawling" and "dragging himself" are misleading.

Yes I was surprised by that too and it should be corrected by the artist. See the fan! How could he carry it?

 

[Chewy]

You really don't think an Olympic athlete could pick up a portable fan and carry it five feet into thee room?

 

[sorrell skye]

I read tho a couple of days ago and it might answer your question:


http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/19/world/africa/south-africa-pistorius-case/index.html


"Reeva was slumped over but alive," he said.

Pistorius said he called for help and was told to take her to the hospital himself.

He carried her downstairs and tried to help but, but she died.

.

Thank you for the link, Patti!

So OP claims he called for help, and was instructed to transport a multiple-gunshot victim to the hospital himself??? He's either lying, or the emergency dispatchers in South Africa are sorely lacking in training.

Who does he claim instructed him to do this? The more I read about this case, the more thankful I am to be a U.S. citizen.

 

[danzn16]

He claimed that he slept on the other side of the bed that night as he had a sore shoulder!

That's weird, wouldn't you just roll over and sleep on your non sore shoulder but still on the same side of the bed? Makes no sense! I've never changed sides of the bed due to an injury

 

[sorrell skye]

If an emergency dispatcher instructed him to transport Reeva to the hospital, there should be a recording/transcript of that conversation, shouldn't there?

If not, then his claim that he was told to do so can't be corroborated, and if not, then I still question why he removed Reeva from the upstairs bathroom to the main floor prior to paramedics arriving & why it has been reported that his car was running in the driveway.

I need to know who he claims instructed him to take Reeva to the hospital. Obviously, paramedics eventually arrived at the scene (where they pronounced her deceased). At this point, I'm doubting that he was told by an emergency dispatcher to transport her. If that were factual, then why were the paramedics dispatched to his house?

Good grief.

 

[Estelle]

You really don't think an Olympic athlete could pick up a portable fan and carry it five feet into thee room?

If you watched the video of the double amputee and how he walks, he uses his hands for balance. Portable fans can be long so he would have to push it.

 

[Estelle]

Thank you for the link, Patti!

So OP claims he called for help, and was instructed to transport a multiple-gunshot victim to the hospital himself??? He's either lying, or the emergency dispatchers in South Africa are sorely lacking in training.

Who does he claim instructed him to do this? The more I read about this case, the more thankful I am to be a U.S. citizen.

I agree except I live in Australia. We would never be instructed to do that. I had intended to visit South Africa this year but not now.

My guess is that he lied about many things and they all have to be verified with the examination of the phone calls.

How come the lawyer has the fifth phone and has not handed it over to police?

 

[squeaky]

You want a bombshell? How about a nuclear bomb instead...

Report: Pistorius Investigating Officer Hilton Botha Faces “Seven Counts Of Attempted Murder”

It is alleged the three law enforcement officials were drunk while driving a state vehicle when they opened fire on a mini-bus taxi loaded with passengers. They were arrested in 2011.

Police have confirmed Botha was arrested for the shooting. The charges were initially dropped, but have since been reinstated.

Police spokesperson Neville Malila said "There was a decision taken by the DPP's office to charge the members, each one of them with seven counts of attempted murder. That was the number of people that were in the taxi."

http://ewn.co.za/2013/02/21/EWN-Exclusive-Pistorius-case-investigator-faces-charges

 

[danzn16]

After seeing this layout of the home, I understand the use of the word "oblique" in describing how the shots were fired through to the toilet room. Wow.

Yeah why would you do that? In case an intruder is using the bathroom??? You'd think you'd shoot at the door if an intruder was just hiding in there.

 

[Estelle]

That's weird, wouldn't you just roll over and sleep on your non sore shoulder but still on the same side of the bed? Makes no sense! I've never changed sides of the bed due to an injury

I agree that that is what one does but he had to cover himself. For some reason, he had to state that he slept on the other side of the bed that night.

 

[squeaky]

Several relevant tweets over the past hour. This is a developing situation...

https://twitter.com/ewnreporter

#OscarPistorius Exclusive: #EWN reveals this morning the investigating officer is himself facing criminal charges.

#OscarPistorius Exclusive: Police confirm Hilton Botha faces seven charges of attempted murder in relating to a 2011 shooting. More on #EWN

#OscarPistorius Botha and 3 others were arrested in 2011. Allegations: they were drunk, driving state car, fired at loaded minibus taxi #EWN

#OscarPistorius #EWN reveals detective leading OP investigation due to appear in court in May - to answer to 7 counts of attempted murder.

#OscarPistorius Hilton Botha and two other officers are due to appear in an Mpumalanaga court in May.

#OscarPistorius #EWN asks police tough questions about whether Botha will be pulled from the OP investigation. Stay tuned.

#OscarPistorius Revelation about Botha facing criminal charges is NB because: His credibility is at stake + will he stay on case?

#OscarPistorius Police say they're planning to bring more experienced, provincial detectives to work on Pistorius case.

#OscarPistorius Police say there are no plans to pull Botha off the OP case. But after today, we wait and see.

 

[Estelle]

Yeah why would you do that? In case an intruder is using the bathroom??? You'd think you'd shoot at the door if an intruder was just hiding in there.

IMO OP is a good marksman and he was intentionally shooting to KILL!! So he could have listened to sounds in that toilet (or her voice) and he knew exactly where she was so he had to shoot her obliquely to get his target!