General Discussion Thread #1 -Bail Hearing

[TheDuchess]

You want a bombshell? How about a nuclear bomb instead...

Report: Pistorius Investigating Officer Hilton Botha Faces “Seven Counts Of Attempted Murder”

http://ewn.co.za/2013/02/21/EWN-Exclusive-Pistorius-case-investigator-faces-charges

Oh dear me...this is bad...no matter the outcome now, Reeva has no chance at having justice done for her and if OP is innocent, and gets off, he will always be questioned if he got off because of the shoddy police work.

I just knew something wierd was up with this Botha guy. Freaking Keystone Cops!

My heart is breaking for Reeva and her family.

 

[NocturnalLady]

New clues from article Part 2:


Botha said the holster for the 9 mm pistol was found under the left side of the bed, the side on which Steenkamp slept. He also implied it would have been impossible for Pistorius to get the gun without checking to see if Steenkamp was there. Roux later argued that Pistorius had suffered an injury to his right shoulder and wore a "medical patch" the night of the killing which forced him to sleep on the left side of the bed.

Steenkamp was shot in the head over her right ear and in her right elbow and hip, breaking her arm and hip, Botha said. However, Roux later asked Botha if Steenkamp's body showed "any pattern of defensive wounds." The detective said no.
Botha also said the shots were fired from 1.5 meters (five feet), and that police found three spent cartridges in the bathroom and one in the hallway connecting the bathroom to the bedroom. However, later on cross-examination by the defense, Botha said he wasn't a forensics expert and couldn't answer some questions.

Police also found two iPhones in the bathroom and two BlackBerrys in the bedroom, Botha said, adding that none had been used to phone for help. Roux later suggested that a fifth phone, not collected by the police, was used by Pistorius to make calls for a hospital and help. After the hearing, Roux told journalists that Pistorius' defense team had the phone, but did not elaborate


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...ha-testimony_n_2725410.html?utm_hp_ref=sports


"Oh the webs do we weave, when we plan to deceive"

Wonder what kind of medicine was in this patch and if OP was wearing it that night. Could contribute to his state of mind...

 

[SweetT]

Well I guess that depends on whether he takes off the prosthetics, then gets into bed, or if he takes them off once seated on the bed.

Hes got to get out of bed in the morning.

 

[SweetT]

Yeah why would you do that? In case an intruder is using the bathroom??? You'd think you'd shoot at the door if an intruder was just hiding in there.

Or look under the door.

 

[SweetT]

Yes I was surprised by that too and it should be corrected by the artist. See the fan! How could he carry it?

Plus the toilet is in the wrong place...it was facing the other way toward the wall with the door.

 

[NocturnalLady]

I think there are quite a few things that are inaccurate/misleading in the pictograph I posted upthread. (eg. gun under pillow/gun under bed; crawling; angle of gun pointing; ) but, the picture is useful to show the actual layout of the house, and a working timeline of OP's versions in a visual way.

Here is another one, FWIW:

Picture Exhibit from Court:

http://news.sky.com/story/1054569/oscar-pistorius-what-police-found-at-the-scene

Why was there a bullet found in the passage way? That suggests that he took the time to actually load the weapon rather than just hurriedly grabbing an already loaded weapon.

 

[wfgodot]

karyn maughan ‏@karynmaughan
@encanews has learnt that dpp didn't inform #oscarpistorious prosecution team of decision to reinstate botha charges.

.....

karyn maughan ‏@karynmaughan
botha: I don't understand why case was reinstated yesterday. I can only think this is linked to my work on #oscarpistorius @encanews

.....

shahan ramkissoon ‏@shahanr
botha tells @karynmaughan the npa didn't inform him of charges being reinstated. He found out from another cop. #oscarpistorius

 

[Carol70]

Several relevant tweets over the past hour. This is a developing situation...

https://twitter.com/ewnreporter

#OscarPistorius Exclusive: #EWN reveals this morning the investigating officer is himself facing criminal charges.

#OscarPistorius Exclusive: Police confirm Hilton Botha faces seven charges of attempted murder in relating to a 2011 shooting. More on #EWN

#OscarPistorius Botha and 3 others were arrested in 2011. Allegations: they were drunk, driving state car, fired at loaded minibus taxi #EWN

#OscarPistorius #EWN reveals detective leading OP investigation due to appear in court in May - to answer to 7 counts of attempted murder.

#OscarPistorius Hilton Botha and two other officers are due to appear in an Mpumalanaga court in May.

#OscarPistorius #EWN asks police tough questions about whether Botha will be pulled from the OP investigation. Stay tuned.

#OscarPistorius Revelation about Botha facing criminal charges is NB because: His credibility is at stake + will he stay on case?

#OscarPistorius Police say they're planning to bring more experienced, provincial detectives to work on Pistorius case.

#OscarPistorius Police say there are no plans to pull Botha off the OP case. But after today, we wait and see.

OMG!!! shocking :what:
Im not so shocked at the mans actions, but rather that the prosecution allowed this man to go on the stand..did they really think this wouldnt come out????

 

[wfgodot]

The charges were reinstated as a means of discrediting Botha as the fix seems very clearly in.

 

[Carol70]

I also want to point out that if he called Netcare, there is a very good chance he was told to drive her to the trauma unit himself...our ambulance service is notoriously slow.
Not due to the lack of the dedication of paramedics but they are terribly under staffed and under funded. There may only be a few ambulances servicing very large areas. its generally known if you can get to hospital yourself, rather. Also, I know that if I needed emergency medical assistance, I have the number of our closest firestation who I would call, they would get to me quicker!

 

[Carol70]

A little bit of a giggle about Hilton Botha I just heard on the radio (94.5 Kfm)..a reporter from Eyewitness News (EWN) texts someone in the family for comment who then forwarded it to Hilton, He calls said reporter demanding to know if he was an eye witness to the murder. Everyone laughing about it...seems Mr Botha is not the sharpest tool in the box.

 

[Patticake]

Just to reiterate the issue of taking Reeva to the hospital. Reuters weighs in:


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/19/us-safrica-pistorius-affidavit-idUSBRE91I0OL20130219

I battled to get her out of the toilet and pulled her into the bathroom. I phoned Johan Stander, who was involved in the administration of the estate and asked him to phone the ambulance. I phoned Netcare and asked for help. I went downstairs to open the front door.

I returned to the bathroom and picked Reeva up as I had been told not to wait for the paramedics, but to take her to the hospital. I carried her downstairs in order to take her to the hospital. On my way down, Stander arrived. A doctor who lives in the complex also arrived. Downstairs, I tried to render the assistance to Reeva that I could, but she died in my arms.

.

 

[Inobu]

Here is the problem when we enter the time points.

Yoga 22:00 to ??:?? according to implied affidavit
Shout sequence 2:00 to 3:00 according to neighbor
Sleep sequence 3:00 to 3:15 based on neighbor input
Fan retrieval 3:15 to 3:16
If the shooting event occurred 3:16 to 3:17
The call to the security manager was 3:17 to 3:19.

The affidavit does not account for the 1 hour verbal communication.
It only speaks to 2 statements of “Call the police” which would fall in the 3:15 to 3:17 time frame.

Inobu

 

[Patticake]

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Pistorius-cop-speaks-out-on-charges-20130221

Pistorius cop speaks out on charges

Hilton Botha is facing seven charges of attempted murder for allegedly firing shots at a minibus taxi carrying seven occupants. It has also been claimed that Botha was drunk at the time of the incident.

But on Thursday morning, the officer told eNCA that the incident was as a result of his investigation into the murder of Denise Stratford, whose body was stuffed into a drain.

“My blood was never tested for alcohol in the aftermath of the shooting. I wasn't drunk,” Botha said.

He said shots were fired at the taxi after it “tried to push us off the road”. Botha says he was pursuing a suspect for Stratford’s murder.

Botha was first charged back in 2009 but the charges were then provisionally withdrawn. The matter was then referred to the director of public prosecutions (DPP).

Botha: “I don't understand why the case was reinstated [on Wednesday]. I can only think this is linked to my work on Oscar Pistorius.”

.

 

[Inobu]

Just to reiterate the issue of taking Reeva to the hospital. Reuters weighs in:


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/19/us-safrica-pistorius-affidavit-idUSBRE91I0OL20130219

I battled to get her out of the toilet and pulled her into the bathroom. I phoned Johan Stander, who was involved in the administration of the estate and asked him to phone the ambulance. I phoned Netcare and asked for help. I went downstairs to open the front door.

I returned to the bathroom and picked Reeva up as I had been told not to wait for the paramedics, but to take her to the hospital. I carried her downstairs in order to take her to the hospital. On my way down, Stander arrived. A doctor who lives in the complex also arrived. Downstairs, I tried to render the assistance to Reeva that I could, but she died in my arms.

.

You can see he wants everyone there except for the police. He was contacting people that could help him not Reeva.

Inobu

shhhh!

 

[Estelle]

A little bit of a giggle about Hilton Botha I just heard on the radio (94.5 Kfm)..a reporter from Eyewitness News (EWN) texts someone in the family for comment who then forwarded it to Hilton, He calls said reporter demanding to know if he was an eye witness to the murder. Everyone laughing about it...seems Mr Botha is not the sharpest tool in the box.

IMO Botha's responses to Roux yesterday showed he has an IQ of less than 100! I am now wondering if Roux knew about Botha's background and has either bribed, blackmailed Botha or offered him free legal services in return for acting so stupidly and being so incompetent. All these guys know each other. Botha said he knew OP! It seems like corruption to me.

 

[Estelle]

Here is the problem when we enter the time points.

Yoga 22:00 to ??:?? according to implied affidavit
Shout sequence 2:00 to 3:00 according to neighbor
Sleep sequence 3:00 to 3:15 based on neighbor input
Fan retrieval 3:15 to 3:16
If the shooting event occurred 3:16 to 3:17
The call to the security manager was 3:17 to 3:19.

The affidavit does not account for the 1 hour verbal communication.
It only speaks to 2 statements of “Call the police” which would fall in the 3:15 to 3:17 time frame.

Inobu

Excellent detective work. I wish you were on the case instead of that Boffin Botha! Anyone could do better detective work than Botha and Roux knows that. That is why the family is so confident! Have they bribed Botha? He is so inconsistent - makes a statement and then does not back it up properly as if he has just done a superficial investigation.

 

[Norwegian]

You can see he wants everyone there except for the police. He was contacting people that could help him not Reeva.

Inobu

shhhh!

Agree 100%. The creation of the story started as soon as he finished with Reeva. And he needed people for that.

I don't think the fact that her bladder was empty tells us anything. He can very well have attacked her when she came out of the bathroom with her running back inside.

Ok. But this is just the way it goes with these high profile cases... the smallest things are nitpicked and twisted and makes and breaks the case.

 

[Patticake]

09:42 - Phillip de Wet says: Media access to Oscar Pistorius courtroom has taken on the flavour of a reality TV show. It's a hot, and fiercely contested ticket.

09:34 - Oscar Pistorius has arrived at the Pretoria Magistrate’s Court.

 

[Estelle]

You can see he wants everyone there except for the police. He was contacting people that could help him not Reeva.

Inobu

shhhh!

His behaviour shows to me that Reeva was already dead in the toilet so he was in survival mode for himself to get alibis and support by putting on his superfifical narcissistic charm that has got him places and beyond the law so far. IMO he is a also a sociopath who thinks the world owes him a living!