General Discussions #5

[SouthEastSleuth]

The more I ponder the question of a babysitter, the more curious I become. If for no other reason than -

in the period from the time Raven and Janet left Eurosport, sometime early in 2005, we have very little information about them, especially their personal lives. Most of what we DO have is online information from Raven, on various websites. What we do NOT know about are their day to day lives...

We know for a fact that Janet had started a new job at Martin Marietta at some point.

We've not heard from local friends, acquaintances, whomever, during this timeframe (January 2005 - April 2005).

The only reference we've had about a personal local contact during that time is Raven's reference to having found a friend to babysit for Kaiden. If not a friend, then this person(s) was at least someone they knew and felt comfortable with...

Accordingly, it would be really helpful if anyone knew anything about this person. Who? How often was he/she used? Generally what sorts of hours, etc.?

It's useful information just as far the personal contact, but also in relation to the day of the murder, potentially anyway.

Was the babysitter used that day, or not? If YES, then when? Who brought Kaiden, picked him up? Were the circumstance with regard to the sitter typical , as in anything out of the norm that day, or not?

I just wanted to re-visit the post I made above, more as an update than anything.

So, with information we've been told since that post, it's fairly safe to assume that we can add a few other person(s) to a list of people that Janet and/or Raven would indeed have had contact with this year, January - April.

1) Possibly a babysitter
2) The landlord, Peter Greijn
3) Perhaps someone(s) with regard to the home teacher/home teaching
4) Janet's new co-workers at Martin Marietta

Again, I list these just to establish people that would have been in personal contact with the Abaroas in recent months (since leaving Eurosport)

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Here, the word teacher describes sharing a message with someone and helping that person (teaching through actions and words).
Hometeaching is more of a support system than it is a typical teaching system.

Does everyone in the church do this? Or is it just certain families? So what you're saying is that the teacher isn't necessarily an authority figure, just someone in the church that goes to do some sort of home study with other families? If Raven was "preparing" his home teaching lesson, does that give you any indication as to if he was the one visiting or or the one being visited? Because if he had people coming to the house on a regular basis, (monthly, you said? Can this vary?), they are yet other people that should possibly be investigated.

 

[tiffany]

The men in our church home teach
The woman visit teach
each visit with each family is about 10-30 minutes long usually reading a lesson from the current Ensign magazine (church magazine). Visits are normally just to see how the family is/whats happening in their lives/do they need assistance with anything at all that the church or visiting/home teacher can help with. Its just one of the ways the church lets everyone know that they matter and make a difference...because they do!

 

[tiffany]

and yes we are instructed to do it once every month,...its okay to miss a month but you just won't get 100% done. If you can't visit them you can always call or bring over a treat for the family.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

So everyone either visits or gets visited? ETA: And is it the same person all of the time that comes to your home?

 

[SouthEastSleuth]

The men in our church home teach
The woman visit teach
each visit with each family is about 10-30 minutes long usually reading a lesson from the current Ensign magazine (church magazine). Visits are normally just to see how the family is/whats happening in their lives/do they need assistance with anything at all that the church or visiting/home teacher can help with. Its just one of the ways the church lets everyone know that they matter and make a difference...because they do!

Is it fair to assume, that even if Raven himself was involved AS a home teacher, that someone else HAD Raven and Janet as a client, for lack of a better word?

Meaning, would some person(s) also been visiting Raven and Janet on a regular basis, with regard to the home teaching visits?

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Okay, this is old news but it touches on a couple of things we had talked about.

Eyewitness News 11.com: New Video Surfaces of Abaroas

This article DOES quote at least part of Raven's monologue about the knife he bought himself for Christmas.

It also states that Kaiden is staying with his father and other relatives. Unless Raven has family somewhere other than California or Utah, it's probably safe to assume that it's Janet's family.

 

[newkid]

Is it fair to assume, that even if Raven himself was involved AS a home teacher, that someone else HAD Raven and Janet as a client, for lack of a better word?

Meaning, would some person(s) also been visiting Raven and Janet on a regular basis, with regard to the home teaching visits?

Yes, they would have had their own home teachers, people visiting their home as well.

 

[SouthEastSleuth]

Yes, they would have had their own home teachers, people visiting their home as well.

Thanks newkid. And thank you for your patience and guidance as we try to understand LDS, as it relates to the Abaroas, and ANY bearing their religion might have, if any, on the case, or just in getting a better understanding of their lives in general.

As a follow up, we've been told that the church assisted, possibly, with a month's rent payment for Raven and Janet. I know this is speculative, but generally speaking, would J and/or R have had to make that appeal to the church, or, is this the sort of thing that may have come up with their home teacher(s) at a visit?

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I'm still trying to understand one thing. Is it always the same person/people that come to the house or is it possible that it could have been a different person/people each month. I'm assuming that it's the same each month since it was mentioned that families are partnered up but I want to make sure that I have it correct.

 

[anneshirley]

I'm still trying to understand one thing. Is it always the same person/people that come to the house or is it possible that it could have been a different person/people each month. I'm assuming that it's the same each month since it was mentioned that families are partnered up but I want to make sure that I have it correct.

Usually, one family has the same hometeacher for quite some time (My hometeachers have been the same for the past year.) NOW this is not always the case. If the hometeachers can't get their schedules to co-ordinate, then one of the hometeachers can find a "substitute" for the other (this would be on an individual meeting basis, usually). So having a different person each month, while not likely, is slightly possible. (i.e. if one of the hometeachers couldn't make it, his companion would have to (or want to) find someone to teach with him (It could be a son, a wife, or a friend...just depends)...this might have happened each month, BUT if the two hometeachers' schedules really weren't meshing, they probably would just ask to be reassigned.)
I hope this makes sense.

 

[newkid]

It may have come up with their home teachers. One possible scenerio is that the Abaroas may have told their home teachers that they lost their jobs and money was tight. The home teachers would have reported that back and the Abaroas may have been contacted by their bishop. The Abaroas may have just gone directly to the bishop as well.

 

[MissYouJanet]

I'm still trying to catch up on all the posts since I've been gone. I did notice a discussion about the memorial fund set up for Janet. As you know there were 2 services for Janet. Her Funeral service was in Buena Vista and the Memorial service was in Annandale. They were quite different. Janet's friends and family were asked to share memories of Janet. Ravens Mom got up with Kaiden and talked and talked saying how much she loved Janet and so on. Then she started promting her memorial fun in the middle of Janet's memorial service. That struck me as very odd. His mom also gives off a kind of creepy vibe.

 

[golfmom]

Then she started promting her memorial fun in the middle of Janet's memorial service. That struck me as very odd. His mom also gives off a kind of creepy vibe.

MYJ, could you give us a little more detail on what his mother said. Did she give any indication on what the money they collected would be used for?

 

[MissYouJanet]

MYJ, could you give us a little more detail on what his mother said. Did she give any indication on what the money they collected would be used for?

I don't recall her saying what it would be used for but the way she was literally promoting the fun made me very uneasy. I got the impression that she was in controll of it.

 

[MissYouJanet]

I apologize if this sounds graphic...but I think that it is worth note when we discuss if there was blood on Raven's clothes (blood that could implicate him in the murder) There really isn't evidence to confirm this at all...at this point, it is MERE SPECULATION...but I spoke with a LE around where I live and I asked him if there generally is a lot of blood if someone is stabbed in t
he chest (that is, assuming that the UNCONFIRMED reports of how Janet died are true). He said that really there wouldn't be a lot of blood at all-on the perp, that is.
According to this LE, until the lungs fill up with blood, there really wouldn't be a lot of blood coming out of the body. The victims clothes would absorb a lot of it and unless there was a lot of slashing or cutting, there wouldn't be a lot of blood splatter.
Again, MERE SPECULATION...and some interesting info I found out about stab wounds. (again, I apologize for the description. I, in no way, intend it disrespectfully!)

Many things can cause blood to splatter number one being if an artery is hit. Imagine taking a paint brush a moving it rapidly up by your head and down to your waist. Paint would fly off the brush. Blood would do the same.

 

[golfmom]

I don't recall her saying what it would be used for but the way she was literally promoting the fun made me very uneasy. I got the impression that she was in controll of it.

Thanks so much for letting us know that! I was wondering if they planned on saving it for Kaiden's future. Any more observations from that day?

 

[Jenifred]

MYJ, do you remember any of the things Raven's mom said while "promoting" the fund? Were her comments prepared, or was she just shooting from the hip, so to speak?

 

[MissYouJanet]

So many of his actions are not consistent with Mormon standards. I don't even know where to start. But I also have questions about Janet's comittment too. There were pictures of her in sleeveless shirts and shirts that show the midriff, and after you go through the temple, that's a no-no because of the covenants that you make. However the reports that she had been counseling with her bishop about leavning Raven show that either I'm wrong and she had always been comitted or that maybe she was starting to get reactivated. *This is only my opinion.

Janet was a very committed member of the LDS church. Like all members of all churches they interpret rules differently and the LDS church does not condemn you if you wear sleeveless shirts after you have been endowed. I personally don't wear my temple garmets when I am exercising, playing sports, or working outside.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

...dec.2004...

12/10/2004, 06:41 AM
NC_VX

vbmenu_register("postmenu_50837", true);
Super VXer
99, Ironman VX, 1455
Chapel Hill, NC US
Member Since: Jun 2003
Posts: 200

Negative Attitude Right Now
Ya know, I posted on here that I would never ever get rid of my VX.... NOw it seems I am so close to throwing in the towel. Between my job, a baby, two dogs and a need for more and more space, I'm just not sure the VX fits the bill.

I want to go out and just buy a third vehicle (or make my VX my third Vehicle), but I'm having a tough time coming up with funds to pay for it, so it seems like parting with the VX is the right way to go..... HOWEVER, even my wife is on my side now by saying I can't sell something that I've spent so much time and money on.

Ultimitly, I need to come up with some funds to keep me from selling the VX... I feel so guilty even considering selling it...

I'm ashamed!

__________________
-The Rave-
North Carolina

ok, so adding to the timline ... they do have two dogs ... no mention of the cats here. Sorry to jump a bit off topic but just wanted to point out another confirmation of two dogs.