General Gun Violence/Gun Control #2

[Laughing]

Rounds never chamber themselves.
Triggers never squeeze themselves.
Pistols never leave holsters or waistbands by themselves.
Rifles & shotguns never find shoulders by themselves.
Firearms never sight or aim themselves.

Firearms are inanimate objects.

Blaming the inanimate object for a human's poor choice makes no sense to me.



jmho ymmv lrr

 

[DFWNF]

Posed this question up thread, but await answers.

There was a gunfight in Sacramento, California 4/3/22 involving 6 identified shooters, 6 deaths, and multiple injuries:

CA - Six Dead, Dozen Injured in Mass Shooting - Sacramento - 3 April 2022

. - CA - Six Dead, at Least Ten Injured in Mass Shooting - - Sacramento - - Sunday, 3 April 2022 - 1)) ABC News: 6 killed, at least 10 injured in mass shooting in Sacramento, California: Police 2)) NBC News: Sacramento shooting: 6 dead, 10 injured 3)) Google™ Supplements & Updates...

www.websleuths.com

California has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the USA.

The court records show that not one of these shooters was legally able to possess a firearm.

The LE count of number of shots fired in this event indicate that at least one of the shooters had either 2 magazines OR an illegal-in-California large-capacity magazine.

6 felons, willing to violate California law by possessing a firearm.
Likely, at least one willing to further violate California law with an illegal large-capacity magazine.

Willing to violate the law.

Your task is to explain your proposed legislation to keep firearms OUT of the hand (and waistband) of those willing to violate gun laws.

All I've read is calls for a national ban on firearms. imho, shooters like the 6 in Sacramento would be willing to violate that law.

Waiting to hear your solution to this problem with not just gun violence but all violence -- craft the law to restrict those already willing to violate any law.

Thanks!

jmho ymmv lrr

Hi Laughing. I am curious, are laws enforced there?

 

[puppylove87]

It's ok to disagree. I understand the Heller test, but where do we draw the line? AK-47s would not have become "common use" if they weren't so easily available in our country in the first place (legally or illegally). Which lost hair makes a man bald? Or should we be looking at the whole head?

I hope nothing in my post led you to believe that I'm in support of "drawing lines." I'm diametrically opposed to lines currently drawn, both real (NFA of 1934) and imaginary <modsnip - off topic/political>

 

[MyBelle]

There’s not one piece of legislation that can resolve the issue. You have to use a multifaceted approach that includes enforcing current laws and introducing others. Then also look at addressing why the core issues of crime exist: poverty, lack of police presence, lack of access to healthcare, etc. I’d add that in the US your attitude towards firearm ownership and use needs to change, imo.

Reducing the pool of firearms and restricting access may be part of the solution. I’ve mentioned this article here before:

‘Mayor Aftab Pureval said 40% of the illegal weapons on Cincinnati streets have been stolen from cars.’

'Don't leave it in the car': City leaders warn gun owners about thefts from cars

Mayor Aftab Pureval said 40% of the illegal weapons on Cincinnati streets have been stolen from cars.

www.wcpo.com

Fix that issue and they’ll see a large drop in the number of firearms that get into the hands of criminals.

IMO

BBM. You are spot on. It took two mass shootings and two years for Michigan to enact common sense gun legislation, but they did just that!

JMO

Here’s what you need to know about Michigan’s gun laws that take effect Tuesday • Michigan Advance

Several new gun laws concerning storage, possession and purchasing firearms go into effect Tuesday. Exactly one year ago, a mass shooting on Michigan State University’s East Lansing campus resulted in the deaths of three students and serious injuries for five others. In response to the tragedy...

michiganadvance.com

 

[DFWNF]

Posed this question up thread, but await answers.

There was a gunfight in Sacramento, California 4/3/22 involving 6 identified shooters, 6 deaths, and multiple injuries:

CA - Six Dead, Dozen Injured in Mass Shooting - Sacramento - 3 April 2022

. - CA - Six Dead, at Least Ten Injured in Mass Shooting - - Sacramento - - Sunday, 3 April 2022 - 1)) ABC News: 6 killed, at least 10 injured in mass shooting in Sacramento, California: Police 2)) NBC News: Sacramento shooting: 6 dead, 10 injured 3)) Google™ Supplements & Updates...

www.websleuths.com

California has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the USA.

The court records show that not one of these shooters was legally able to possess a firearm.

The LE count of number of shots fired in this event indicate that at least one of the shooters had either 2 magazines OR an illegal-in-California large-capacity magazine.

6 felons, willing to violate California law by possessing a firearm.
Likely, at least one willing to further violate California law with an illegal large-capacity magazine.

Willing to violate the law.

Your task is to explain your proposed legislation to keep firearms OUT of the hand (and waistband) of those willing to violate gun laws.

All I've read is calls for a national ban on firearms. imho, shooters like the 6 in Sacramento would be willing to violate that law.

Waiting to hear your solution to this problem with not just gun violence but all violence -- craft the law to restrict those already willing to violate any law.

Thanks!

jmho ymmv lrr

Easiest in my mind is ban guns. Laws are ignored. People (these examples) clearly are not capable of following the laws and not killing, and some make it easy for others incl kids to kill people. Also off topic police / security manned turnstiles in school and events and grocery and other places where you are scanned for guns and declined if needed. Boggles my mind that this type of measure seems to be deemed not worth it or scary in most discussions indeed. JMO

 

[puppylove87]

Easiest in my mind is ban guns. Laws are ignored. People (these examples) clearly are not capable of following the laws and not killing, and some make it easy for others incl kids to kill people. Also off topic police / security manned turnstiles in school and events and grocery and other places where you are scanned for guns and declined if needed. Boggles my mind that this type of measure seems to be deemed not worth it or scary in most discussions indeed. JMO

It's such a low probability event that it wouldn't be worth the expense for most venues and the corresponding higher costs to those entering those venues. Besides a few exceptions, the market doesn't want it, therefore, you don't see it frequently.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Rudeness and personalizing toward other members is a violation of Websleuths Terms of Service and there has been some of that occurring in this discussion. Members who can't refrain from personalizing or being snarky will be placed on thread bans.

 

[Cota332]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

Arguably, Canada's 1991 C-17 bill was the most restrictive firearm bill in Canada's history (in terms of what came before it), but we'll chalk that up to opinion.

According to FBI Crime statistics, the vast majority of homicide suspects are known to their victims. In fact, most are spouses/cohabitants.
Whereas, I cannot imagine that most victims of burglary, rape ect. (contributing factors to violent crime), knew their perpetrators before the crime.

Essentially meaning, becoming a random victim of a homicide is exponentially rare. Becoming a random victim of a violent crime however is much more likely even if both the homicide rate and violent crime rate were both equal.

It is also worth mentioning, albeit a small subsection, that there is a growing amount of justifiable homicides that contribute to the overall US homicide rate.

 

[MyBelle]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed by member>

You are comparing apples to oranges because violent crime in the U.S. varies tremendously depending on the state and whether it contains urban centers with high concentrations of families living in poverty which generally leads to more violence such as gang violence.

You also have to consider other factors such as state gun laws, gun ownership, types of guns owned and whether a state has red flag laws which allow families/LE to ask a court to temporarily remove access to guns from mentally unstable individuals.

The data below is from 2019 and it clearly shows how important it is to make sure mentally unstable people do not have access to guns in order to prevent them from harming themselves or others. The US is off the charts in the numbers of mass shootings compared to other countries.

JMO

Comparing Mental Illness, Gun Violence in the U.S., Australia and U.K.

FAU Schmidt College of Medicine researchers found similar rates of mental illness in the U.S., Australia and the U.K., yet significantly higher gun violence deaths in the U.S.

www.fau.edu

“The U.S. is experiencing more than 10 times higher death rates from gun violence than Australia and more than 40 times higher death rates than the U.K.,” said Charles H. Hennekens, M.D., Dr.PH., co-author, First Sir Richard Doll Professor of Medicine and senior academic advisor in the FAU Schmidt College of Medicine.

In fact, gun homicide rates are vastly different between the U.S., Australia and the U.K.

 

[Sillybilly]

Hey folks,

This thread is dedicated specifically to discussion of gun violence and gun control, not crime in general.

Please stay on topic. Thanks !!

 

[Sillybilly]

Stats Canada report on "Firearms and violent crime in Canada, 2022"​

 

[puppylove87]

Constitutional Carry was authorized by the governor of South Carolina a few days ago.

https://www.sled.sc.gov/forms/regulatory/Constitutional Carry Guidance.pdf

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Rounds never chamber themselves.
Triggers never squeeze themselves.
Pistols never leave holsters or waistbands by themselves.
Rifles & shotguns never find shoulders by themselves.
Firearms never sight or aim themselves.

Firearms are inanimate objects.

Blaming the inanimate object for a human's poor choice makes no sense to me.



jmho ymmv lrr

No one is arguing that firearms are not inanimate objects. We know the issue is with the user. What we can address and control is keeping firearms out of the hands of people who are intent on using them in crimes.

Part of the solution other developed countries have implemented is to reduce the proliferation of firearms and ammunition and restrict access.

If the US has more than double the rate homicides compared to Canada, and more than 600 mass shootings 2023 compared to 5 in Canada, I believe our gun control measures work. Other peer countries are also on the same page.

And it’s not just firearm control measures we’re addressing to help the issue.

 

[MyBelle]

No one is arguing that firearms are not inanimate objects. We know the issue is with the user. What we can address and control is keeping firearms out of the hands of people who are intent on using them in crimes.

Part of the solution other developed countries have implemented is to reduce the proliferation of firearms and ammunition and restrict access.

If the US has more than double the rate homicides compared to Canada, and more than 600 mass shootings 2023 compared to 5 in Canada, I believe our gun control measures work. Other peer countries are also on the same page.

And it’s not just firearm control measures we’re addressing to help the issue.

How are those firearms getting across the border into Canada and other countries?

I think it should be illegal to ship guns across the border whether it be by air or ground. And, at border crossings the cargo should be examined for drugs and weapons.

JMO

 

[Lexiintoronto]

How are those firearms getting across the border into Canada and other countries?

I think it should be illegal to ship guns across the border whether it be by air or ground. And, at border crossings the cargo should be examined for drugs and weapons.

JMO

They’re smuggled for the most part. Part of the issue is the ease of which the firearms can be obtained on the US side.

The onus is mainly on our security at the border, imo. A mass shooting here revealed there are some great weaknesses at at least one border crossing.

 

[MyBelle]

They’re smuggled for the most part. Part of the issue is the ease of which the firearms can be obtained on the US side.

The onus is mainly on our security at the border, imo. A mass shooting here revealed there are some great weaknesses at at least one border crossing.

I think the problem is on both sides of the border whether it be Canada or Mexico. Drugs and guns are flowing across and killing people. President Biden has pledged to increase the number of border agents but whether Congress will allow him to follow through is still in question.

<modsnip>

JMO

 

[Lexiintoronto]

We cannot mention specific cases, but in general I’m thankful for when the US tips off Canada that one of our bad guys attempts to illegally purchase a weapon in the US. It sometimes leads to the discovery of a stockpile of illegal weapons. I’m grateful for the US vigilance and resources used when it’s at its best.

 

[Sillybilly]

This thread is open again for civil discussion, no bickering !!