General Gun Violence/Gun Control

This is a "states rights" issue. The right to bear arms is protected by the Constitution, and this right has been eroded by many local laws. If people are against guns, they should live in a state that follows their belief system.

It is a slippery slope to place limits on gun ownership based on mental health diagnosis. This type of "red flag" would end up on NCIC database, and could potentially be a barrier for many other things, aside from guns. Even years later.
 
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If families truly cared about the safety of their elderly family members as well as the public, they would report dementia to authorities. It is the families who don't care who are placing others at grave risk. No different than guns and parents being prosecuted for gun violence inflicted by their minor children.
 
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This is a "states rights" issue. The right to bear arms is protected by the Constitution, and this right has been eroded by many local laws. If people are against guns, they should live in a state that follows their belief system.

It is a slippery slope to place limits on gun ownership based on mental health diagnosis. This type of "red flag" would end up on NCIC database, and could potentially be a barrier for many other things, aside from guns. Even years later.
Thanks. I didn't think about the consequences of a "red flag" being placed on someone.

I would imagine it could prevent someone from getting certain jobs. That could be devastating to someone. Things need to be thought out fully before action is taken. JMO.
 
If families truly cared about the safety of their elderly family members as well as the public, they would report dementia to authorities. It is the families who don't care who are placing others at grave risk. No different than guns and parents being prosecuted for gun violence inflicted by their minor children.
I get it. Times sure have changed. I'm 62 years old and I got my own .22 rifle when I was 14. Not a big deal back then. I used the money I earned cleaning a friend of my dads optometrist shop to buy my ammo.

Parents of children that have obvious problems should not be giving them guns and should be held responsible for their actions. JMO.
 
I want to add that I don't think there's gun smuggling problem with guns entering the US at this time, but if severe gun control measures would limit the legal availability of firearms I feel that gun smuggling into the US would occur. JMO.

It's possible. But generally it's the organized crime underworld who is involved in gun smuggling. People who go into schools to murder children and staff are generally using legally purchased weapons and are not connected to organized crime. Eliminating certain types of guns from circulation would go a long way to reduce the likelihood of mass shooting.
 
It's possible. But generally it's the organized crime underworld who is involved in gun smuggling. People who go into schools to murder children and staff are generally using legally purchased weapons and are not connected to organized crime. Eliminating certain types of guns from circulation would go a long way to reduce the likelihood of mass shooting.
Would you also promote elimination of certain types of guns from appearing in movies and video games? Hollywood and video games make a lot of money portraying violence in their products.
 
Would you also promote elimination of certain types of guns from appearing in movies and video games? Hollywood and video games make a lot of money portraying violence in their products.

I was going to mention this. The glorification and glamorisation of gun violence in film, music and gaming needs to reduce. Why portray killing as powerful or heroic? It cannot be helping.

I don’t know what other solutions might be in a country that is so hopefully flooded with guns, but banning assault rifles and preventing people from buying multiple weapons (other than one needed for self defence) would surely be a start. America needs weaning off it over the years, so in generations to come mass shootings are not an everyday event.
 
Would you also promote elimination of certain types of guns from appearing in movies and video games? Hollywood and video games make a lot of money portraying violence in their products.

This. Government should be able to manage this. Why not tackle this issue before gun legislation, which I still believe is a "states rights" issue.

Seriously, states like Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota, Alaska, people own multiple guns in their homes, and when was the last time there was a mass shooting or school shooting in those states?
 
I get it. Times sure have changed. I'm 62 years old and I got my own .22 rifle when I was 14. Not a big deal back then. I used the money I earned cleaning a friend of my dads optometrist shop to buy my ammo.

Parents of children that have obvious problems should not be giving them guns and should be held responsible for their actions. JMO.
Jumping off your post because I remember those days.

Living in Louisiana, nearly every boy in my high school had at least one gun for hunting. They were allowed to bring them to school as long as they remained in the vehicle. They got into more trouble for chattering during class time about what they were going to hunt when school let out. We NEVER had bomb threats or school shooting drills.

I don’t remember school shootings in the 70’s but they have definitely increased today. I know guns were more prevelant on campuses and they are definitely not allowed anywhere near today. What has caused the breakdown in society is above my pay grade.
 
Jumping off your post because I remember those days.

Living in Louisiana, nearly every boy in my high school had at least one gun for hunting. They were allowed to bring them to school as long as they remained in the vehicle. They got into more trouble for chattering during class time about what they were going to hunt when school let out. We NEVER had bomb threats or school shooting drills.

I don’t remember school shootings in the 70’s but they have definitely increased today. I know guns were more prevelant on campuses and they are definitely not allowed anywhere near today. What has caused the breakdown in society is above my pay grade.
Yes. Legally purchased guns were much more available back then compared to now so I don't see that as the problem.

Something has caused a change that is behind these school shootings. Above my pay grade to give an answer for why. JMO.
 
One thing that really bothers me is reading about violent crimes in my community and often finding out that the person who injured or killed someone was a felon in possession of a firearm. The law prohibited them from having a gun but they did anyway.

I feel that once you are convicted of a felony you forfeit your Second Amendment rights for life. No exceptions.

If you are then caught with a gun the punishment should be extremely harsh to make it impossible for the convicted felon from harming anyone for a very long time. 20 years in prison minimum for the first time caught as a felon with a gun and life without parole if your do it again. No more in and out, repeating violent crimes without care.

I live in California and below are the penalties for felon in possession of a firearm. It's pathetic in my opinion.


Penalties and Punishment​


If convicted of being in possession of a firearm under Penal Code section 29800 you are looking at a sentence of 16 months to three (3) years in county jail. If you have a “Strike” prior then the sentence is doubled – 32 months to six (6) years in jail. The prosecutor will request as part of the sentence that the firearm be forfeited.

I agree it is way too lenient. For example in the UK it is 5 years for anyone to possess a handgun.
 
I think the below article is a good one. Although it doesn't explain much on felons/restricted illegal gun owners commiting most of the gun crimes. Mass shootings are horrible. But there are more killed because of illegal gun owners. Who frankly don't care and ignore gun laws. Imo.

Thanks for linking this very informative article. Much more at link. (My apologies for the bolding and font size not done by me. It was copy and paste and not sure how to change.)

6 major takeaways from the ATF's first report in 20 years on U.S. gun crime​

"It's been decades since we, the public, received this level of detail from ATF about guns that it's tracing and about gun commerce as well," she said. "So that in and of itself is a very positive development."

Here are some of the takeaways from the report.

Legally purchased guns can change hands and end up being used in crimes​

The ATF found that 54% of traced crime guns were recovered by law enforcementmore than three years after their purchase. Those guns were legally purchased, but were later used in crimes, the report indicated.

"Crime guns may change hands a number of times after that first retail sale, and some of those transactions may be a theft or violate one or more regulations on firearm commerce," the ATF's report reflected.

More than 1 million guns were stolen from private citizens from 2017 to 2021​

A huge way those legally purchased firearms get into the hands of criminals is through theft, the ATF said. In five years, there were more than 1 million firearms stolen from private citizens and reported to authorities.

There's a caveat here, however. Federal law doesn't require individual gun owners to report the loss or theft of their firearm to police. And while local laws vary, it also isn't a requirement in many states to report a stolen gun, either — so the number of gun thefts could be much higher.

Ghost guns remain difficult to track and are increasingly used in crime​

Privately made firearms, also called "ghost guns," and their involvement in crime "is an emerging issue," the ATF said in its analysis. Still, law enforcement agencies are just beginning to establish uniform training on how to recognize, identify, and report ghost guns.

The number of suspected ghost guns recovered by law enforcement agencies and sent to the ATF for tracing and tracking "increased by 1,083% from 2017 (1,629) to 2021 (19,273)." This indicates, for one thing, that these ghost guns are increasingly being used to commit crimes, the ATF concludes.

In five years, the number of illegal machine gun conversion devices recovered by law enforcement agencies has jumped 570%​

Conversion devices make semi-automatic firearms into fully automatic machines guns.

To put this new data into context, from 2012 to 2016, ATF reported the recovery of 814 machine gun conversion devices, the agency told NPR. From 2017 to 2021, however, that number skyrocketed to 5,454 recoveries.

Pistols represented nearly 70% of the crime guns traced between 2017 and 2021​

Semi-automatic rifles like the AR-15 often make headlines when they are used to commit mass shootings in the United States. But handguns are most often used to commit crimes, according to ATF data.

There's a lot of data, but it's still limited​

The report only reflects a glimpse of the full picture when it comes to guns in the U.S. Firearm tracing, as well as ballistic imaging policies and practices, vary across these local agencies, the ATF said.
In 2021, 47.2% of law enforcement agencies (8,679 out of 17,981 agencies) were participating in ATF's eTrace program, which tracks firearms used in crimes. And as of 2021, there were only 259 cities with National Integrated Ballistic Information Network sites (which analyzes ballistic information). These databases are where the ATF pulled information for this report.
 
A problem with relying on a mental health approach, as some politicians advocate, is that some mass shooters have not checked the boxes that would prevent them from purchasing semi-automatic weapons. Obviously, banning these particular weapons that can kill so many so quickly is not practical. Nor will “regular” guns ever be restricted or banned. So, quite honestly, I don’t see a legislative solution that could pass in this country and successfully solve the problem.

It would require a societal change in thinking. This is what finally caused smoking ordinances to pass and be enforced.
JMO
I wouldn't suggest relying on a mental health approach so much as that being one out of several different approaches.

Another one that gets me is the ease with which some children in the USA access guns, usually family guns afaik e.g. the Grade 1 student who shot his teacher. And wasn't there recently a 3yo who shot a 4yo sibling? MOO How does that happen? Aren't there laws about guns and ammo having to be locked away. I don't know if more legislation is needed or more enforcing of it? So that would be one of the additional approaches.

Yes, a societal change in thinking is undoubtedly needed. I can't be part of it because I'm not American and don't live in the US.
 
This is a "states rights" issue. The right to bear arms is protected by the Constitution, and this right has been eroded by many local laws. If people are against guns, they should live in a state that follows their belief system.
RSBM and BBM

People will generally have a number of different reasons for living in a particular state (family, employment, spouse's employment...). Suggesting or even expecting people to move to a different state because they don't like the gun laws in the state they currently live in (also possibly a state their family has lived in for generations!) is something that with all due respect I cannot fathom. When people decide voluntarily to move to a state that follows their belief system, that's one thing, and it undoubtedly happens, and not just with respect to gun laws either, but suggesting people leave if they don't like it can be used to stifle any debate, any progress, any change.

MOO JMO
 
I wouldn't suggest relying on a mental health approach so much as that being one out of several different approaches.

Another one that gets me is the ease with which some children in the USA access guns, usually family guns afaik e.g. the Grade 1 student who shot his teacher. And wasn't there recently a 3yo who shot a 4yo sibling? MOO How does that happen? Aren't there laws about guns and ammo having to be locked away. I don't know if more legislation is needed or more enforcing of it? So that would be one of the additional approaches.

Yes, a societal change in thinking is undoubtedly needed. I can't be part of it because I'm not American and don't live in the US.
Definitely multiple approaches need to happen. I'm pro gun, military, and LE family. We all feel the same way. There needs to be laws that are enforceable and actually enforced. I'm seeing a lot of felons in Utah caught with guns, arrested, bailed out, and get a slap on the wrist numerous times, only to eventually commit a violent gun crime. Imo, legal gun owners should be able to own guns and not have them stolen. And to expect harsh penalties on those that steal them. And there needs to be harsher penalties against those illegally buying guns for others. Everyone needs to be held responsible if minors and felons get a hold of their gun. I have so many thoughts on this, I could go on for hours. Anyways, there needs to be changes all around. Imo.
 
APR. 03, 2023
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. — During a private ceremony in his office, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis on Monday signed legislation allowing people to carry a concealed weapon without a permit.

Per the bill, starting on July 1, Floridians will no longer need to fulfill license or concealed training classes to carry a concealed weapon.
[...]
 
I think anyone who really wants to get their hands on a weapon (specifically a firearm) can and will do so. Legally or otherwise. JMO

In the United States, yes. In other places, not so much.

Unfortunately, some of the violence is accidental, with people who didn't intend to have their children find their weapons ending up in very tragic situations. Maybe we should have a legal requirement that everyone who owns weapons must also keep them in a child-proof safe, with an alarm and an app that warns the owner if the case is breached.

I really don't know what the solution is. Per capita gun violence does correlate with number of guns owned.



(Unfortunately both are behind paywalls for most, but they do have good abstracts and there are many more articles with the same correlation).

IME. IMO.
 

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