General Gun Violence/Gun Control

[MyBelle]

I was specifically speaking to your claim that "there have been over 200 Mass Murders since the start of the year". That is negligently inaccurate.
The Gun Violence Archive Mass Shooting metrics include any incident that involves a firearm - justified or otherwise - which injures four or more people, and the criteria does not include fatalities.

In other words, if a guy accidentally drops a firearm, causing it to discharge, wherein a single round grazes four people with non-life threatening injuries would meet GVA's criteria as a Mass Shooting.
Another example would be if a homeowner were to shoot a group of individuals during a home invasion, causing four injuries, and no fatalities, that would also meet GVA's criteria as a Mass Shooting.

Also, the GVA adds incidents that involve Airsoft/BB/Toy guns to the tally of Mass Shootings. Direct quote from GVA's website:


Here is the exact language GVA uses to define Mass Murder vs Mass Shootings :

---------------

Here is a link directly to their definitions and disclaimers, upon which these quotes were sourced.

Further, the metrics clearly show that handguns are the overwhelmingly utilized weapon in Mass Shooting/Mass Murder events. Unless grandpas old Colt 1911 handgun would qualify to you as an "Assault Weapon of Mass Destruction", this appeal to emotion is moot. Citation to the data that shows handguns are far more prevalent in these incidents.

Oh, so the fact that a mass shooting didn't kill anyone makes it better? GMAB. If a guy "accidentally drops a firearm causing it to discharge" then he's an irresponsible idiot who shouldn't have access to a gun.

The slaughter of innocent families and children are horrific. Uvalde school, Allen outlet mall, Buffalo supermarket. The list goes on and on. The GVA is providing a public service. Take it up with the news media who are reporting their statistics.

jmo

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Oh, so the fact that a mass shooting didn't kill anyone makes it better? GMAB. If a guy "accidentally drops a firearm causing it to discharge" then he's an irresponsible idiot who shouldn't have access to a gun.

The slaughter of innocent families and children are horrific. Uvalde school, Allen outlet mall, Buffalo supermarket. The list goes on and on. The GVA is providing a public service. Take it up with the news media who are reporting their statistics.

jmo

All shooting deaths and injuries are horrific.

The number that GVA uses is off in a big way for what generally comes to mind when we think of mass shootings involving a public space like schools, parks and retail spaces. IMO

I will go along with the GVA report of 210 mass shootings resulting in 282 deaths. The media likes to use this number but the reality is we are discussing (here) 22 cases of mass killings and not the other 188 incidents. IMO

The GVA site also reports a total of 15,180 gun deaths of all types. That equates to 1.86% of all gun deaths were attributed to mass shootings. That is a relatively small amount of all gun deaths IMO. That doesn’t make those deaths any less horrific.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/05/07/shooting-texas-mall-is-second-deadliest-so-far-this-year/

Gun Violence Archive

www.gunviolencearchive.org

 

[MyBelle]

All shooting deaths and injuries are horrific.

The number that GVA uses is off in a big way for what generally comes to mind when we think of mass shootings involving a public space like schools, parks and retail spaces. IMO

I will go along with the GVA report of 210 mass shootings resulting in 282 deaths. The media likes to use this number but the reality is we are discussing (here) 22 cases of mass killings and not the other 188 incidents. IMO

The GVA site also reports a total of 15,180 gun deaths of all types. That equates to 1.86% of all gun deaths were attributed to mass shootings. That is a relatively small amount of all gun deaths IMO. That doesn’t make those deaths any less horrific.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/05/07/shooting-texas-mall-is-second-deadliest-so-far-this-year/

Gun Violence Archive

www.gunviolencearchive.org

The topic of the thread is gun violence, not mass shootings. And I agree, all shooting deaths and injuries are horrific for the families and loved ones and that includes suicides. Which is precisely why Red Flag laws are so important.

jmo

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

The topic of the thread is gun violence, not mass shootings. And I agree, all shooting deaths and injuries are horrific for the families and loved ones and that includes suicides. Which is precisely why Red Flag laws are so important.

jmo

I know the topic of the thread. My post points out that there is a lot more to gun violence than mass shootings.

It’s important to have the facts in order to come up with good solutions. IMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

The GVA site also reports a total of 15,180 gun deaths of all types. That equates to 1.86% of all gun deaths were attributed to mass shootings. That is a relatively small amount of all gun deaths IMO. That doesn’t make those deaths any less horrific.

All the more reason to focus on reducing the 1.86%. The weapon used in the mass shootings is the common denominator. Mass shootings are a small percentage of overall gun deaths, but they have a very large impact on our society, our schoolchildren, and our nation’s psyche.

 

[MyBelle]

Canada, UK and Australia have issued travel warnings because of the increase of gun violence in U.S.

Multiple countries issue U.S. travel warnings over gun vi...

Australia, Canada and the U.K. have warned travelers to the U.S. about the risk "of being in the wrong place at the wrong time."

www.newsweek.com

 

[Kaley Smith]

Canada, UK and Australia have issued travel warnings because of the increase of gun violence in U.S.

Multiple countries issue U.S. travel warnings over gun vi...

Australia, Canada and the U.K. have warned travelers to the U.S. about the risk "of being in the wrong place at the wrong time."

www.newsweek.com

I won't go to the USA until I have to. Even a few years ago, as soon as I crossed the border I felt unsafe. I know other Canadians who are avoiding travel to the US now.

 

[AngTxGal]

I won't go to the USA until I have to. Even a few years ago, as soon as I crossed the border I felt unsafe. I know other Canadians who are avoiding travel to the US now.

I’m sorry, to me as an American that is embarrassing but understandable.
Our politicians need to hear that fact, maybe they will get off of their butts and do something meaningful!!

JMO

 

[Kaley Smith]

The topic of the thread is gun violence, not mass shootings. And I agree, all shooting deaths and injuries are horrific for the families and loved ones and that includes suicides. Which is precisely why Red Flag laws are so important.

jmo

I’m sorry, to me as an American that is embarrassing but understandable.
Our politicians need to hear that fact, maybe they will get off of their butts and do something meaningful!!

JMO

Thanks AngTxGal> The USA is a beautiful country with millions of wonderful people, but seeing a man in a McDonald's open carrying, with a gun at his waist, did unnerve me... not to mention the mass shootings in recent years.

 

[Stunned]

I won't go to the USA until I have to. Even a few years ago, as soon as I crossed the border I felt unsafe. I know other Canadians who are avoiding travel to the US now.

I’m curious, why would you have to?

 

[MyBelle]

I won't go to the USA until I have to. Even a few years ago, as soon as I crossed the border I felt unsafe. I know other Canadians who are avoiding travel to the US now.

I don't blame you. There are people here who are fed up including young people in high schools all across the U.S. who are protesting on Saturday

Students Demand Action Walkout Activation Toolkit

Nationwide Students: Enough is Enough. Walk out to show our lawmakers we want ACTION. Walk out on Friday, September 5th, at 12:00 PM.

studentsdemandaction.org

 

[Mo Thuairim]

Thanks AngTxGal> The USA is a beautiful country with millions of wonderful people, but seeing a man in a McDonald's open carrying, with a gun at his waist, did unnerve me... not to mention the mass shootings in recent years.

Same. I've travelled all over the US. I've been to 38 states on various road trips and always planned to return to visit the 12 states I haven't yet seen. But the last few years I've just lost the desire to go back. It's a pity. It's such a beautiful, diverse country with wonderful people but the guns on display unnerved me in certain states and just the constant tragic stories of mass shootings lately have put me off going back altogether. That might seem silly to Americans but to people from countries where guns are not common, it makes you feel really unsafe to be in such a heavily armed country with dysfunctional regulations. I hope something changes.

 

[AngTxGal]

Mass Shootings are not Mass Murders. This has already been somewhat sorted, but I'll go ahead and re-post this


The link to this specific quote can be found here.

Also here's the link to GVA's homepage, which clearly shows a large discrepancy between Mass Shootings and Mass Murders on the left-hand column.

Gun Violence Archive

www.gunviolencearchive.org

Please do keep in mind though, that there are better and more accurate alternatives to GVA's compiling, such as the FBI statistics which @BayouBelle_LA had already mentioned.

Exactly what is your point?
Some use stats to support a point…
To others the same stats interpreted in a different way are used to support a completely different point.
To the families of victims- the words and numbers serve zero comfort for the loss of life.

What is your point?

JMO

 

[AngTxGal]

I don't blame you. There are people here who are fed up including young people in high schools all across the U.S. who are protesting on Saturday

Students Demand Action Walkout Activation Toolkit

Nationwide Students: Enough is Enough. Walk out to show our lawmakers we want ACTION. Walk out on Friday, September 5th, at 12:00 PM.

studentsdemandaction.org

Agree!
Fort Worth ISD asked students not to walk out May 11, 2023
Dallas- some students did participate April 5, 2023 Dallas ISD
Some Dallas students participated May 11 in Walkout for Safety
San Antonio students walked out in protest April 5, 2023 San Antonio
Austin students walked out to protest May 11, 2023 Austin
Houston students participated April 5 Houston

Adults such as Teachers and Admin need to help these students organize!
Problem is, advertising ahead of such an event could make them a target.

We are in a sick place when students, their parents, schools, teachers, and admin are having such conversations- and change is painfully too slow!!

JMO

 

[Cota332]

Exactly what is your point?
Some use stats to support a point…
To others the same stats interpreted in a different way are used to support a completely different point.
To the families of victims- the words and numbers serve zero comfort for the loss of life.

What is your point?

The point here is that there is a lot of misinformation out there on the prevalence of random public mass murders when you're much more likely to win a jackpot national lottery than to become a victim in this scenario.
Further, for the instances of mass murders that do happen, the data shows that it's clear a handgun is used much more frequently than the hotly-debated AR platform.

I've yet to see another posit the same statistics that I have used to create a compelling argument on this matter in opposition to my own.

It is not the least bit logical to lobby for legislation that will negatively affect millions of law abiding persons for a fraction of a fraction of incidents.

 

[AngTxGal]

The point here is that there is a lot of misinformation out there on the prevalence of random public mass murders when you're much more likely to win a jackpot national lottery than to become a victim in this scenario.
Further, for the instances of mass murders that do happen, the data shows that it's clear a handgun is used much more frequently than the hotly-debated AR platform.

I've yet to see another posit the same statistics that I have used to create a compelling argument on this matter in opposition to my own.

It is not the least bit logical to lobby for legislation that will negatively affect millions of law abiding persons for a fraction of a fraction of incidents.

I agree with your point that law abiding citizens should not be impacted, but not the conclusion that mass shootings in public places is somehow less relevant.

Actually mass shootings in public places and schools from stranger to stranger gun violence is more relevant to more people- it impacts the daily well being of Everyone.

I zero risk factors of being killed by a person in my life- my odds are zero.
Is there a risk to me in my career, in my daily life due to where I go? Yes

My tax dollars pay for the protections that are put into place to serve public schools. If you pay taxes- this impacts you too.
Have you seen a lockdown drill in an elementary school?
Have you seen the fear on the faces of little children and teachers when they do not know if it is a drill or for real?
Do you not have children, or expect to have grand children?

I’m a law abiding gun owner- so using stats that try to show me these shootings are less relevant because of the math- is a wasted point.
The time where people would have believed this didn’t concern them has passed. It concerns everyone.

JMO

 

[Cota332]

I agree with your point that law abiding citizens should not be impacted, but not the conclusion that mass shootings in public places is somehow less relevant.

Actually mass shootings in public places and schools from stranger to stranger gun violence is more relevant to more people- it impacts the daily well being of Everyone.

I zero risk factors of being killed by a person in my life- my odds are zero.
Is there a risk to me in my career, in my daily life due to where I go? Yes

My tax dollars pay for the protections that are put into place to serve public schools. If you pay taxes- this impacts you too.
Have you seen a lockdown drill in an elementary school?
Have you seen the fear on the faces of little children and teachers when they do not know if it is a drill or for real?
Do you not have children, or expect to have grand children?

I’m a law abiding gun owner- so using stats that try to show me these shootings are less relevant because of the math- is a wasted point.
The time where people would have believed this didn’t concern them has passed. It concerns everyone.

I get that people are afraid that this may happen to them, similar to how many have a fear boarding an airline, or embarking upon road trip - even traversing stairs can cause fear in especially older generations.

The fact is that the vast majority of people will fortunately not experience becoming a victim of a Mass Murder within their lifetimes.
That is not to say that it is not necessary to prepare for these scenarios, it remains essential to prepare for any adverse event. Though, perspective is important to determine the best response, especially on a legislative level.

It is not just the data on relevance that matters, it is also the data on methodology. The current data does not support legislative action on the AR platform (supposed "Assault Weapons"), not just due to one factor, but a myriad.

 

[steeltowngirl]

The point here is that there is a lot of misinformation out there on the prevalence of random public mass murders when you're much more likely to win a jackpot national lottery than to become a victim in this scenario.
Further, for the instances of mass murders that do happen, the data shows that it's clear a handgun is used much more frequently than the hotly-debated AR platform.

I've yet to see another posit the same statistics that I have used to create a compelling argument on this matter in opposition to my own.

It is not the least bit logical to lobby for legislation that will negatively affect millions of law abiding persons for a fraction of a fraction of incidents.

One can choose to play the lottery, or not. We cannot choose to stop shopping, going to school or work.

Laws are enacted that affect all of us when there is a need to address a public crisis, even where the incident rate is low. Think about metal detectors in public places and airports to thwart attacks. Those attacks, while rare, are profound.

It’s completely logical to focus on the military-style assault weapons and large-capacity magazines that exist only to enact maximum destruction. There is simply no reason that everyday Americans need access to them.

jmo

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I get that people are afraid that this may happen to them, similar to how many have a fear boarding an airline, or embarking upon road trip - even traversing stairs can cause fear in especially older generations.

The fact is that the vast majority of people will fortunately not experience becoming a victim of a Mass Murder within their lifetimes.
That is not to say that it is not necessary to prepare for these scenarios, it remains essential to prepare for any adverse event. Though, perspective is important to determine the best response, especially on a legislative level.

It is not just the data on relevance that matters, it is also the data on methodology. The current data does not support legislative action on the AR platform (supposed "Assault Weapons"), not just due to one factor, but a myriad.

You know mass shootings are only going to increase unless something changes? It might not be you who gets caught up in one, but eventually one of your loved ones surely will.

Over 15,000 Americans shot dead already in 2023, a record breaking year so far. And it’s not just dead people, is it? For everyone one of them there are a number of family, friends, colleagues, witnesses and emergency services being greatly affected. It’s beyond appalling.

 

[Cota332]

You know mass shootings are only going to increase unless something changes? Record breaking year this year. It might not be you who gets caught up in one, but eventually one of your loved ones surely will.

Over 15,000 Americans shot dead already in 2023. And it’s not just dead people, is it? For everyone one of them there are a number of family, friends, colleagues, witnesses and emergency services being greatly affected. It’s beyond appalling.

It has already been discussed that the data on Mass-Shootings specifically is fairly inconclusive as it counts defensive gun use, and instances wherein a firearm is used in the commission of a felony not related to murder.

Hell, they even allow submissions wherein people had been shot with toy guns.

As for mass murders specifically, the data shows that they have neither been increasing nor decreasing in occurrence since at least the mid-2000's - despite a spike in population.

Again, all things in perspective, gun violence is horrific, but firearms are a far cry from the leading cause of preventable deaths in the US.