General Gun Violence/Gun Control

[MyBelle]

This is a strange case that appears to be a mass shooting attack that didn't materialize, thankfully. If anyone sees a thread open up about it, let me know and I'll move this there. The suspect is not being named yet.

Over the weekend, after-hours, a man illegally entered the Glenwood Caverns Adventure Park in Colorado. They are reporting he is deceased, but cause of death is not being reported yet.

"According to the Garfield County Sheriff's Office, the man was dressed in black-colored tactical clothing, with patches and emblems that gave the appearance of being associated with law enforcement. The suspect was heavily armed with a semi-automatic rifle and semi-automatic handgun and multiple loaded magazines for both weapons.

He was wearing body armor and what appeared to be a ballistic helmet, according to investigators. Multiple improvised explosive devices, or IEDs, were discovered with the suspect and a vehicle associated with him. The Grand Junction Bomb Squad responded to the scene and they rendered the devices safe."

Colorado man with explosives, wearing tactical gear dies at Glenwood Caverns Adventure Park

Man who entered amusement park with guns, explosives found dead near words on a wall: 'I am not a killer'

The sheriff's office said the 20-year-old man from Carbondale had a semi-automatic rifle, semi-automatic handgun and loaded magazines for both weapons.

www.9news.com

NBC National News reported on that case tonight and there seems to be a lot they still don't know about it.

Heavily armed man found dead in apparent suicide at Colorado amusement park

The body of the 20-year-old was found in a restroom at the Glenwood Caverns Adventure Park. He had an AR-style rifle, a handgun, body armor and real and fake explosives.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Kaley Smith]

View attachment 456929

https://twitter.com/x/status/1718973855589442026

Canada cannot become complacent thinking there isn’t a gun issue here, imo.

Other peer countries are working to find solutions. It’s not just banning certain weapons that will solve everything, but it’s one step in the right direction, imo.

Exactly! and can we guess why? Which country is most likely to have guns pouring in from the USA?

 

[Kaley Smith]

NBC National News reported on that case tonight and there seems to be a lot they still don't know about it.

Heavily armed man found dead in apparent suicide at Colorado amusement park

The body of the 20-year-old was found in a restroom at the Glenwood Caverns Adventure Park. He had an AR-style rifle, a handgun, body armor and real and fake explosives.

www.nbcnews.com

Well good for him that he killed himself instead of going on a shooting rampage, ruining many lives. He obviously had a heart.

 

[Laughing]

<modsnip: off topic; not about gun violence / gun control>

NONE of the 6 identified shooters in this mass shooting were legally able to possess a firearm. Not one:

Sacramento shooting: Police say 6 adults killed, 12 others shot; Search for multiple shooters

Police in California are searching for multiple suspects in connection with a mass shooting early Sunday in downtown Sacramento that claimed six lives and left 10 other people injured.

www.kcra.com

Additional laws are unlikely to change the behavior of those already willing to ignore them.

Changing the Constitution is a lengthy process.

Visit the Constitution Garden in Peoria, Illinois. As this writer points out -- the Constitution, the words we all learn in school then promptly forget.

Constitution Garden – Peoria, IL

Initial Visit: August 11th, 2015 Rating: 4.5/5 Price: Free Description: We the Travelers of the United States…

goatamerica.wordpress.com

All minority opinion here, sadly.

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[Lexiintoronto]

<modsnip: Referenced post was modsnipped>

Killers will take what is easily accessible and an AR-15 is the weapon of choice for the vast majority of mass shootings in the US. There’s absolutely no need for that weapon to be in the hands of the average citizen. It’s sole purpose is to kill many people as fast as possible.

And the point of gun bans is to reduce the pool of weapons on the streets and make it more difficult for criminals to obtain firearms.

Our weapon bans happened here and we had the same NRA talking points but in the end the shootings have decreased. So we’re okay with making some people mad. Gun violence is down in 28% this year in Toronto alone. Our mass shootings have decreased as I posted above.

US mass shootings are alarming.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/24/us/mass-shootings-fast-facts/index.html

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

It was made clear in the Opening Post of this thread that it was not for discussing specific cases. One more case is a variation of the theme, "just one more case". We know there is a problem; this discussion is for defining the problem and brain storming what changes can be made to reduce gun violence.

This thread is for discussion of gun violence and gun control. Please don't bring in individual cases unless you can link it directly to the stated purpose of this thread.

 

[PrairieWind]

"AR-15 is the weapon of choice for the vast majority of mass shootings in the US."

<modsnip: Referenced post was modsnipped>

Killers will take what is easily accessible and an AR-15 is the weapon of choice for the vast majority of mass shootings in the US. There’s absolutely no need for that weapon to be in the hands of the average citizen. It’s sole purpose is to kill many people as fast as possible.

And the point of gun bans is to reduce the pool of weapons on the streets and make it more difficult for criminals to obtain firearms.

Our weapon bans happened here and we had the same NRA talking points but in the end the shootings have decreased. So we’re okay with making some people mad. Gun violence is down in 28% this year in Toronto alone. Our mass shootings have decreased as I posted above.

US mass shootings are alarming.
View attachment 457577

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/24/us/mass-shootings-fast-facts/index.html

"AR-15 is the weapon of choice for the vast majority of mass shootings in the US."

I'm not sure this is correct nor really particular relevant.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

"AR-15 is the weapon of choice for the vast majority of mass shootings in the US."

"AR-15 is the weapon of choice for the vast majority of mass shootings in the US."

I'm not sure this is correct nor really particular relevant.

‘Vast majority’ is a misstatement, but it’s completely relevant as it’s the most commonly used weapon in mass shootings in the US.

“How the AR-15 Rifle Became America’s Most Dangerous Weapon…​

…Originally advertised decades ago as a sporting or hunting rifle, its reputation has largely become associated with mass shootings. At least 10 of the 17 deadliest mass shootings in America saw the gunman use an AR-15-style rifle, according to The Washington Post.”

How the AR-15 Became America’s Most Dangerous Weapon

What to know about AR-15-style rifles, some of the most commonly used weapons in U.S. mass shootings.

time.com

“It is a weapon of war that is really only suitable for soldiers in a combat zone,” said Lindsay Nichols, policy director for the Giffords Law Center, which pushes for gun regulations. “Its ability to kill a lot of people quickly is the reason why we want it banned.”

The United States’ resistance to banning AR-15 rifles, explained

A rifle with military origins has become one of the country's most divisive consumer products.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[PrairieWind]

‘Vast majority’ is a misstatement, but it’s completely relevant as it’s the most commonly used weapon in mass shootings in the US.

“How the AR-15 Rifle Became America’s Most Dangerous Weapon…​

…Originally advertised decades ago as a sporting or hunting rifle, its reputation has largely become associated with mass shootings. At least 10 of the 17 deadliest mass shootings in America saw the gunman use an AR-15-style rifle, according to The Washington Post.”

How the AR-15 Became America’s Most Dangerous Weapon

What to know about AR-15-style rifles, some of the most commonly used weapons in U.S. mass shootings.

time.com

View attachment 457733

“It is a weapon of war that is really only suitable for soldiers in a combat zone,” said Lindsay Nichols, policy director for the Giffords Law Center, which pushes for gun regulations. “Its ability to kill a lot of people quickly is the reason why we want it banned.”

The United States’ resistance to banning AR-15 rifles, explained

A rifle with military origins has become one of the country's most divisive consumer products.

www.nbcnews.com

Actually I think the hand gun is still by far the most common used in mass shootings, about 78%.

Guns used in mass shootings U.S. 2024| Statista

Handguns are the most common weapons used in mass shootings in the United States. Other types of guns used in mass shootings include rifles and shotguns.

www.statista.com

 

[MyBelle]

<modsnip: Referenced post was modsnipped>

Killers will take what is easily accessible and an AR-15 is the weapon of choice for the vast majority of mass shootings in the US. There’s absolutely no need for that weapon to be in the hands of the average citizen. It’s sole purpose is to kill many people as fast as possible.

And the point of gun bans is to reduce the pool of weapons on the streets and make it more difficult for criminals to obtain firearms.

Our weapon bans happened here and we had the same NRA talking points but in the end the shootings have decreased. So we’re okay with making some people mad. Gun violence is down in 28% this year in Toronto alone. Our mass shootings have decreased as I posted above.

US mass shootings are alarming.
View attachment 457577

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/24/us/mass-shootings-fast-facts/index.html

BBM. Average citizens in the U.S. do have the Constitutional right to carry guns. It is the mentally unstable that are a danger to themselves or others who are targeted with gun legislation and even then, it is temporary. Once they can prove they are mentally stable, their guns are returned to them.

JMO

 

[Laughing]

Please, please, please know that the A stands for the name of the company that developed the firearm -- it is an Armalite Rifle.

Want to reduce gun violence?

Denver decided to do just that:

One City’s Surprising Tactic to Reduce Gun Violence: Solving More Nonfatal Shootings

A Denver police unit started investigating all shootings like homicides. Now other cities are taking notice.

www.themarshallproject.org

Also, consider that NO ONE who was involved with 4H Shooting Sports or the Daisy Air Rifle competition has gone on to participate in a mass shooting:

National 4-H Shooting Sports

Skills for Life - Activity for Lifetime

4-hshootingsports.org

Daisy Nationals - Daisy

Each year the Daisy National BB Gun Championship Match features youth teams from across the nation competing.

www.daisy.com

Some do go on to earn Olympic gold medals for our country:

Colorado 4-H's William Shaner wins Olympic gold - Office of Engagement and Extension

Local Coloradan and former Colorado 4-H participant William Shaner won gold in Tokyo on Sunday in the men’s 10-meter air rifle with an Olympic-record 251.6 points,

engagement.source.colostate.edu

Let's expand those programs to all youth!

De-mystify firearms, teach safety & accountability, train hunters, enable more people to feed their families natural foods.

We all get what we want this way.

Of course media could could be a great help in removing the glory from shooting a fellow human and increase glory (if that's what someone wants) in shooting a target. Plenty of sporting events for that -- but football is prioritized by the media, it seems.

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[Laughing]

BBM. Average citizens in the U.S. do have the Constitutional right to carry guns. It is the mentally unstable that are a danger to themselves or others who are targeted with gun legislation and even then, it is temporary. Once they can prove they are mentally stable, their guns are returned to them.

JMO

Exactly -- the tool is NOT the problem, the user of the tool is the problem.

Address the user of the tool.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

While semi-automatic rifles such as the AR-15 are a major flashpoint in the gun control debate and are often the focus of attention following mass shootings, there are only about 20 million assault rifles in the United States, a fraction of the estimated 400 million guns in the country. Instead, according to ABC News contributor and former FBI agent Brad Garrett, handguns account for the most gun murders in the U.S.

The type of gun used in most US homicides is not an AR-15

Handguns are responsible for nearly two-thirds of the nation’s gun murders.

abcnews.go.com

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Please, please, please know that the A stands for the name of the company that developed the firearm -- it is an Armalite Rifle.

Want to reduce gun violence?

Denver decided to do just that:

One City’s Surprising Tactic to Reduce Gun Violence: Solving More Nonfatal Shootings

A Denver police unit started investigating all shootings like homicides. Now other cities are taking notice.

www.themarshallproject.org

Also, consider that NO ONE who was involved with 4H Shooting Sports or the Daisy Air Rifle competition has gone on to participate in a mass shooting:

National 4-H Shooting Sports

Skills for Life - Activity for Lifetime

4-hshootingsports.org

Daisy Nationals - Daisy

Each year the Daisy National BB Gun Championship Match features youth teams from across the nation competing.

www.daisy.com

Some do go on to earn Olympic gold medals for our country:

Colorado 4-H's William Shaner wins Olympic gold - Office of Engagement and Extension

Local Coloradan and former Colorado 4-H participant William Shaner won gold in Tokyo on Sunday in the men’s 10-meter air rifle with an Olympic-record 251.6 points,

engagement.source.colostate.edu

Let's expand those programs to all youth!

De-mystify firearms, teach safety & accountability, train hunters, enable more people to feed their families natural foods.

We all get what we want this way.

Of course media could could be a great help in removing the glory from shooting a fellow human and increase glory (if that's what someone wants) in shooting a target. Plenty of sporting events for that -- but football is prioritized by the media, it seems.

jmho ymmv lrr

Canada is a country that is into sport shooting as well, it’s part of our culture. And there are people who hunt in order to provide for their families. We’ll always have firearms here, but we’re reducing them and introducing tighter restrictions.

If you were a country south of Mexico, me and other Canadians would likely be quiet about your gun issues, but we share a border and your guns are ending up here. And yes, we’re doing something about it.

But at the same time it’s crushing to know in the next few weeks there will likely be another mass shooting in the US (God forbid), and the headlines will likely read ‘man armed with AK-15 kills ___ and injures___. Calls for stricter gun laws are heard.’ Then crickets.

And I understand our constitutions are very different and in Canada is was simpler for our Prime Minister to introduce gun bans. But over 80% of Canadians support the weapon bans and tighter restrictions, including gun owners. I’m not sure about how the US feels.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Exactly -- the tool is NOT the problem, the user of the tool is the problem.

Address the user of the tool.

Firearms are being used. So unfortunately they are part of the issue.

But your point is heard: there are issues that need to be addressed with what makes a killer a killer.

 

[MyBelle]

Actually I think the hand gun is still by far the most common used in mass shootings, about 78%.

Guns used in mass shootings U.S. 2024| Statista

Handguns are the most common weapons used in mass shootings in the United States. Other types of guns used in mass shootings include rifles and shotguns.

www.statista.com

The problem isn't just the weapon. The problem is also the state of mind of the shooter. Both become factors in mass murder. A handgun isn't capable of killing a large number of people in a short amount of time. iirc, 60 died in the Las Vegas shooting and hundreds were injured.

JMO

U.S. hurtles toward new record for mass shootings, ATF director says

Steven Dettelbach cites advances in gun technology, lack of restrictions on access, says change will come when Americans demand it.

news.harvard.edu

October 31, 2023

Steven Dettelbach, director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), said the country is barreling toward a “tremendously troubling” new record this year for mass shootings after the rampage last week by a gunman in Lewiston, Maine, that left 18 dead and more than a dozen wounded.

So far in 2023 there have been more than 565 mass shootings, which the FBI defines as incidents in which at least four people are shot or killed. Gun-related incidents take the lives of 120 people a day in the nation and is the No. 1 cause of death of children, Dettelbach, J.D. ’91, noted during a Monday evening talk at Harvard Kennedy School

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Canada is a country that is into sport shooting as well, it’s part of our culture. And there are people who hunt in order to provide for their families. We’ll always have firearms here, but we’re reducing them and introducing tighter restrictions.

If you were a country south of Mexico, me and other Canadians would likely be quiet about your gun issues, but we share a border and your guns are ending up here. And yes, we’re doing something about it.

But at the same time it’s crushing to know in the next few weeks there will likely be another mass shooting in the US (God forbid), and the headlines will likely read ‘man armed with AK-15 kills ___ and injures___. Calls for stricter gun laws are heard.’ Then crickets.

And I understand our constitutions are very different and in Canada is was simpler for our Prime Minister to introduce gun bans. But over 80% of Canadians support the weapon bans and tighter restrictions, including gun owners. I’m not sure about how the US feels.

Are you saying that Canada's gun control laws are not working well enough and need to be expanded?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Are you saying that Canada's gun control laws are not working well enough and need to be expanded?

I don’t think I said that, but I’m in favour of tight firearm restrictions and laws. We’ve only had the ‘assault-style’ weapon ban in place since 2020 and a hand gun freeze more recently. I’m personally in favour of both.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I don’t think I said that, but I’m in favour of tight firearm restrictions and laws. We’ve only had the ‘assault-style’ weapon ban in place since 2020 and a hand gun freeze more recently. I’m personally in favour of both.

So you're saying that these gun laws are working and no further action is needed?

I'm just trying to understand your earlier post about doing something in regards to American firearms coming into Canada.

 

[PrairieWind]

The problem isn't just the weapon. The problem is also the state of mind of the shooter. Both become factors in mass murder. A handgun isn't capable of killing a large number of people in a short amount of time. iirc, 60 died in the Las Vegas shooting and hundreds were injured.

JMO

U.S. hurtles toward new record for mass shootings, ATF director says

Steven Dettelbach cites advances in gun technology, lack of restrictions on access, says change will come when Americans demand it.

news.harvard.edu

October 31, 2023

Steven Dettelbach, director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), said the country is barreling toward a “tremendously troubling” new record this year for mass shootings after the rampage last week by a gunman in Lewiston, Maine, that left 18 dead and more than a dozen wounded.

So far in 2023 there have been more than 565 mass shootings, which the FBI defines as incidents in which at least four people are shot or killed. Gun-related incidents take the lives of 120 people a day in the nation and is the No. 1 cause of death of children, Dettelbach, J.D. ’91, noted during a Monday evening talk at Harvard Kennedy School

The Vegas shooting, as horrific as it was, is still a rarity. Still, the most common mass shooting is the gang affiliated street shooting or domestic type shooting. They are all horrible of course and one is too many. But the focus often seems so misplaced.