General Theories and Motives Rehashed #1

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Well, first of all, September is when LE told the attorney Ron had been moved, it is not necessarily when he had been moved.

But, say it took them until September to move him to the bottom of the suspect list. Again, he is the custodial parent. Under the circumstances of this case, I would say he was the #2 person they were looking at. There seems to be very little in the way of truth coming from any of these people. I can see LE having to pick through all these conflicting stories and trying to put together something that works with the evidence they have. And I would like to point out, LE has way more evidence and knows way more than we do. It might have taken them until September to move him down the list, yet, they did still move him down the list, if we can take the attorney's statement at face value.

FWIW, Ron's marriage to Misty was a big factor for a long time for my feeling he was involved in this somehow. I still wouldn't stake anything on he wasn't involved, but for me, the only way I have been able to fit everything together to make sense is he wasn't involved.

It may be that they were always looking at Misty, and when Ron married her, LE had to re-think whether he was covering for HER. Many posters have seen that marriage in the opposite way, but it is very possible that little Misty wanted to be Ron's wife because she knows he didn't kill Haleigh and if he married her, she would look more innocent. But LE would have to sort out the Ron/Misty mystery (i.e., why he married her) in order to get a clear picture of who might be accomplices, at the very least. I think Ron was a grieving parent and a young stupid drug user who got played by Misty, who probably believes that she "loves" him and that whatever happened to Haleigh is someone else's fault.
 
Here is an interesting site, just FYI:

http://wapedia.mobi/en/Homicide:_A_Year_on_the_Killing_Streets


2. 2. The "Homicide Lexicon" and its rules
Throughout the book, Simon frequently refers to a set of 10 informal rules that apply in the majority of homicide cases, as detectives soon learn. They are as follows:

1. Everyone lies. Murderers lie because they have to; witnesses and other participants lie because they think they have to; everyone else lies for the sheer joy of it, and to uphold a general principle that under no circumstances do you provide accurate information to a cop.

2. The victim is killed once, but a crime scene can be murdered a thousand times.

3. The initial 10 or 12 hours after a murder are the most critical to the success of an investigation.

(more at the link)
 
It may be that they were always looking at Misty, and when Ron married her, LE had to re-think whether he was covering for HER. Many posters have seen that marriage in the opposite way, but it is very possible that little Misty wanted to be Ron's wife because she knows he didn't kill Haleigh and if he married her, she would look more innocent. But LE would have to sort out the Ron/Misty mystery (i.e., why he married her) in order to get a clear picture of who might be accomplices, at the very least. I think Ron was a grieving parent and a young stupid drug user who got played by Misty, who probably believes that she "loves" him and that whatever happened to Haleigh is someone else's fault.

Plausible. One then has to wonder at what drugs were GGM and TN taking to create their denial and delusion that Misty had no part in Haleigh's death. TN was so ecstatic, she loaned her ring for the engagement which took place on her birthday. GGM was so thrilled she allowed the newlyweds to live with her for their entire marriage.

One has to wonder why, even after the divorce, ALL 3 of those people continued to defend Misty and never pointed at Tommy and Joe.

Drugs do wacky things.
 
I think this case has driven more people crazy than any other I have ever heard of. Here we are, mostly otherwise intelligent people, trying to figure out the minds and reasonings of a bunch of drug-addled young people who have spent most of their lives avoiding having to deal with LE, only to lie and point fingers when they are forced to do so. They aren't like most of us, haven't grown up like most of us and are different in almost every way, including, in my opinion, the way they treat the children unlucky enough to be born into the family tree. So it is like pounding your head against a wall to try to comprehend what the meaning might be behind this action, or that statement, as the things they do and say don't compute in our worlds. Even LE, who deals with people like this all the time, are running into roadblock after roadblock with this group.

I do believe that they (LE) will break through it at some point, at least enough to charge and convict some of them, even if evidence is only circumstantial, but I don't think it will ever be resolved in a way that will make any more sense than any of the evolving stories we have heard to date, as there can't be any sense made of what likely happened to Haleigh in the company of a bunch of people involved with drugs, guns, and a generally criminal lifestyle. We may have to accept that we won't ever know the real and entire truth, but will hopefully hear enough, in front of a jury, to agree that, yes, these two, or three, or four, are guility or complicit, so let's sentence them accordingly.

My opinion only.
 
Here is an interesting site, just FYI:

http://wapedia.mobi/en/Homicide:_A_Year_on_the_Killing_Streets


2. 2. The "Homicide Lexicon" and its rules
Throughout the book, Simon frequently refers to a set of 10 informal rules that apply in the majority of homicide cases, as detectives soon learn. They are as follows:

1. Everyone lies. Murderers lie because they have to; witnesses and other participants lie because they think they have to; everyone else lies for the sheer joy of it, and to uphold a general principle that under no circumstances do you provide accurate information to a cop.

2. The victim is killed once, but a crime scene can be murdered a thousand times.

3. The initial 10 or 12 hours after a murder are the most critical to the success of an investigation.
(more at the link)

BBM.. And I suspect Haleigh had already been deceased anywhere from 10 to 11 hours before that 911 call was ever made..JMO
BTW... Thanks for the link...
 
SoSueme -do you think that RC is in fearful of someone higher up the criminal food chain? Or what happened to Haleigh was within his own click? He appears to be the leader, top man of his click and in control. I personally don't think that he was fearful of anyone else as he didn't take any measures to assure Jr.s safety after Haleigh came up missing. The average person would take their remaining child into hiding...not continue with the lifestyle he was in when he daughter was taken. ***smack fore-do*** what was I thinking. These are not your average people. I smell coffee brewing...BRB.
 
Whatever happened to Haleigh and the whole mess is so evil, my mind kept trying to go to the lesser of the evils - but in my mind that person has kept changing as we learn more and more. As a grandma, I didn't want TN or GGMS to be guilty of more than being over protective. As a mother of a son, I didn't want ToC to be guilty of more than a druggy that seemed to be neglecting his family (bad enough). Lindsy seemed just young and starry-eyed in love and was just standing by her man. I thought TiC might be better and smart to move away from the rest of the family. And although I see no parenting skills, I have always wanted HC & LC to straighten up their lives and be an example. Joe, even with a record, I've been holding out he is a scapegoat.

Does anyone know who is the lesser of the evils? At least for today...
 
SoSueme -do you think that RC is in fearful of someone higher up the criminal food chain? Or what happened to Haleigh was within his own click? He appears to be the leader, top man of his click and in control. I personally don't think that he was fearful of anyone else as he didn't take any measures to assure Jr.s safety after Haleigh came up missing. The average person would take their remaining child into hiding...not continue with the lifestyle he was in when he daughter was taken. ***smack fore-do*** what was I thinking. These are not your average people. I smell coffee brewing...BRB.

Personally, "I" don't think RC was fearful of anyone in the criminal food chain. Frankly, I'm not sure RC was that far up the chain, other than his own criminal acts. I can't see Ron taking orders or being afraid of anyone (in his own mind). Ron was the one to be feared in that little criminal community.

I do think the person(s) responsible for Haleigh's death is within the circle of people that LE is trying to crack. I'm also of the opinion that they would like to expose RC and what he may have known about his daughter's death all this time. It's all just my opinion though, for what that's worth. :waitasec:
 
Coming up with yet another theory, which may be my 3rd stab at this, I'm going to take a shot at something with a little different take on this case.

Over the last year and a half, I've been told repeatedly by my own friends in LE (not in FL) and professionals in the legal field to NOT think rationally or logically when trying to figure out the players in this case.

First, in this remote, drug infested underbelly of Satsuma, FL, you have a sub-culture of drug addicts and criminals who have one code of honor amongst theives: NEVER trust LE and above all NEVER, EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES tell them the truth.

Let's assume that at least some of what Tommy is now telling LE is the truth. I highly suspect that it's not the whole truth, but perhaps a close rendition. Those involved in Haleigh's death and disposal are indeed, Joe, Misty and Tommy.

How does that account for Ron's behavior and inconsistencies the past year and a half? I think Ron knew from the beginning what happened to Haleigh. The words, "...you let my daughter get stole b*tch" have so much more meaning to me now.

Ron didn't go to LE with the truth because you don't EVER tell LE the truth. You don't EVER work with LE. LE is always the enemy. But I think most of all, Ron didn't work with LE because Ron now OWNS every single one of the people involved. Ron has total control of the situation and Ron likes to be in control. Rest assured, Ron knew he could work this situation to his own advantage.

I think Ron's children were expendable and disposable to him. Ron cared about his guns, drugs and underaged girlfriends that he could control. So yeah, he was going to work this situation to his advantage.

If you work under this premise, I think most of the behavior of the players involved over the past year will fit within it, but that's only my opinion, which is subject to change with the wind in this case.

my bold above

I can clearly see how most of your theory may be plausable however I just can't get past my believing that Ron has a working relationship with LE [in the past and in the present]
LE continues to use kid gloves with Ron.
-RC's Previous charges for serious offences -->NO JUSTICE/SENTENCE served for them.
-Ron was NEVER charged with a sexual relationship with an underaged Misty.
*Ron's early days in jail with him(RC) talking about:
-LE bringing him the phone several times a day in to his cell, something that I've NEVER heard afforded to other individuals/prisoners
-Allowing longer visits with his Mother
-Moving him back to putnam so he could be closer to his Mother
-Allowing Ron to move into general population (Ron wanted this very much & LE granted HIS REQUEST)
-LE has NOT realeased ALL Ron's jail calls
-Currently working with LE to work out a deal out for himself by testifying against his underaged wife and Tommy

I BELIEVE RON'S A SNITCH/RAT
Everything is a BIG con to him(RC)
Ron's a snake who continues to slither by
 
A lot of people think Ron is involved, and if he is, I say let him fry. But, I do have some things that make me think Ron is not involved.

LE has said at least a couple of times Misty knows more than she is saying, and Misty is the key. I haven't heard anything about Ron.

To my knowledge, Ron has taken one LDT, right at the beginning. Misty has taken 2 or 3 or 4, with one of those possibly being some kind of voice stress test thing. Is there any valid information out there Ron has taken more than one, or was even asked to take more than one?

To my knowledge, Misty was asked to come in, or taken in for questioning on several occasions. I'm not aware the same can be said for Ron.

When LE did the search of the river, it seems to be accepted it was because of Tommy. It also seems to be accepted Tommy was taken to that specific area of the river. We have seen video proof Misty was taken to that area of the river. Why wasn't Ron taken there?

Tommy's story as of now, as we have been told so far, does not have Ron as a component. We heard his call to Granny Flo, where she asks him about pills and Ron, and he says that's BS. LE could have had that call sealed as part of an ongoing investigation if they had so chosen.

Tommy is supposedly telling this story now in an effort to make a plea deal and get a reduced sentence. How would this work with him using JO as code for Ron, if that is indeed what he was doing? For Tommy to get a plea deal, and I am sure his attorney has made this clear to him, he is going to have to give a story that checks out. Blaming JO when it was in fact Ron makes no sense. Of course, I have to add blaming JO, even if it was JO, makes no sense if there is nothing to back it up.

Anyway, just my :twocents:.

It is strange how two people can see the same thing yet get completely different meanings. Every reason you gave for Ron not being involved made me think Ron was involved.

LE has said Misty is the key, not the prime suspect. LE has not named any suspects. IMO, LE felt Misty was the weak link. Because of Misty's background and age, I believe LE thought she was the easiest to break. Misty was also the only person who put herself there while everyone else distanced themselves. Ron is NEVER mentioned. That IMO is important. LE always looks at parents first. LE has not cleared Ron. IMO, LE have been quiet on Ron hoping he would think he was in the clear and get sloppy. Sloppy like he did with the drugs. LE needed leverage against Ron to try to get him to talk.

The LDT. LE asked both Ron and Misty to take one at the beginning and they did. On March 19, 2009, it was reported Ron had hired an attorney because he "needs and deserves legal advice and assistance in his quest for the safe return of his daughter."

After that, Misty took test after test while Ron said his attorney advised him not to take them. However, we know Misty's attorney told her not to at some point. Because Tim Miller made her write out a note in her own writing that her attorney had advised her not to but she was not taking her attorney's advice because she wanted to help find Haleigh. Why would Misty go against her attorney's advice? IMO, Misty was forced to take those tests and set up to fail them to damage her credibility. I believe Misty did not know to tell but was told if she said she did not know they would believe she was lying then fed stories so what little she did know would not be believed. I believe this because there are some common threads in her stories.

Same reasons as above for why LE asked Misty to come in and not Ron. Misty either did not have an attorney or would talk to LE without her attorney. Ron said that his attorney advised him to not talk to LE. BTW, I worked in the legal field so I believe only a dumb person does not get an attorney to protect them. However you still cooperate if you are not guilty. You just have your attorney there to "protect" because LE is not your friend, they see everyone as a suspect.

Why not take Ron to the River? First, it keeps it quiet that they may be looking at Ron. Second, it sent the message that Tommy/Misty are talking which might scare the person they are talking about. Third, again that attorney thing. Both Tommy and Misty went to the dock without their attorneys. No way would Ron go to the dock without his attorney. IMO, they did not need to talk to Ron. LE already knew Ron's story about Joe, the dock, Lake Placid and getting rid of a body. That is 3 people - Ron, Misty and Tommy talking about that dock.

We do not know what story Tommy and/or Misty have told LE. Gma Flo told Tommy what she thought happened but that does not mean when he agreed or called BS that any of that was related to what LE knows. Tommy using "Joe" as a code does not mean that he is using "Joe" as code to LE or that LE is using "Joe" as code. I'm one of those who feels "Joe" is being used in place of "Ron." If Tommy/Misty are talking, they do not want Ron to know they are talking about him. As long as Joe is being thrown out by the players, Ron may believe that they are sticking to the Joe story when they are not. In a trial, all they have to state is that they did not want to use the real name to protect their stories from the public so when Joe was used, they went with it. However, with LE they used the real name.

One of the biggest reasons that I believe that Ron is heavily involved from the beginning and not just in the cover up after the fact or knows nothing is the interview he gave after getitng the Haleigh tattoo. Ron talked about not being left alone to be able to do what he wanted to do. Ron talked about his personal life having nothing to do with finding Haleigh. IMO, Ron having his life without being followed was more important than finding Haleigh. IMO, if Ron was only involved in the cover up, he would have talked to get his life back. Ron could have easily made a deal and I believe would have to get his life back. If Ron knew nothing, he would have done anything to get his life and privacy back. IMO, Ron was angry not just that they were invading his personal life but for one of the first times Ron could not control the situation no matter how hard he tried.
 
It is strange how two people can see the same thing yet get completely different meanings. Every reason you gave for Ron not being involved made me think Ron was involved.
*snipped by me*

You are no one's Chump. All of this was very well thought out.
 
I've thought a lot like you Sailor. I would also add that it seems RC has no friends other than his family. I find that extremely strange in a town like this. Why are they never interviewed? The only one he had, has disappeared. How long has RC actually lived in Satsuma? Sometimes it even makes me wonder if any of this has been about Haleigh or is it a huge drug ring bust? When the Croslin clan all left Daytona and centered themselves in Satsuma, was there a change in the drug habits in Putnam County? So many questions and so few answers. Sigh.
 
This may sound like a really dumb question, but wouldn't Ron's lawyer know if Ron was working for LE?
 
This may sound like a really dumb question, but wouldn't Ron's lawyer know if Ron was working for LE?

Not a dumb question. Yes, Ron's attorney would know if Ron was working for LE.

IMO, Ron is not working for LE. There would be no need for Ron's attorney to "spin" the story if Ron was working for LE. Ron's attorney would never pubically admit to Ron trying to help LE in any way if Ron was working with LE. Ron's attorney admitting in any way even to get Misty for Haleigh that Ron was working with LE would put Ron in danger from other people.

IMO, Ron has all his priors without any jail time because they were either under the influence or personal use quantities of ILLEGAL drugs. Ron was looked at as an addict, not a dealer. Those arrests are slaps on the wrist because they need jail/prison for the dangerous criminals not the addicts who are only hurting themselves. The ONLY reason this case is more serious is prescription drugs have stiffer penalties for what amounts to personal use quantities and Haleigh.
 
It is strange how two people can see the same thing yet get completely different meanings. Every reason you gave for Ron not being involved made me think Ron was involved.

LE has said Misty is the key, not the prime suspect. LE has not named any suspects. IMO, LE felt Misty was the weak link. Because of Misty's background and age, I believe LE thought she was the easiest to break. Misty was also the only person who put herself there while everyone else distanced themselves. Ron is NEVER mentioned. That IMO is important. LE always looks at parents first. LE has not cleared Ron. IMO, LE have been quiet on Ron hoping he would think he was in the clear and get sloppy. Sloppy like he did with the drugs. LE needed leverage against Ron to try to get him to talk.

The LDT. LE asked both Ron and Misty to take one at the beginning and they did. On March 19, 2009, it was reported Ron had hired an attorney because he "needs and deserves legal advice and assistance in his quest for the safe return of his daughter."

After that, Misty took test after test while Ron said his attorney advised him not to take them. However, we know Misty's attorney told her not to at some point. Because Tim Miller made her write out a note in her own writing that her attorney had advised her not to but she was not taking her attorney's advice because she wanted to help find Haleigh. Why would Misty go against her attorney's advice? IMO, Misty was forced to take those tests and set up to fail them to damage her credibility. I believe Misty did not know to tell but was told if she said she did not know they would believe she was lying then fed stories so what little she did know would not be believed. I believe this because there are some common threads in her stories.

Same reasons as above for why LE asked Misty to come in and not Ron. Misty either did not have an attorney or would talk to LE without her attorney. Ron said that his attorney advised him to not talk to LE. BTW, I worked in the legal field so I believe only a dumb person does not get an attorney to protect them. However you still cooperate if you are not guilty. You just have your attorney there to "protect" because LE is not your friend, they see everyone as a suspect.

Why not take Ron to the River? First, it keeps it quiet that they may be looking at Ron. Second, it sent the message that Tommy/Misty are talking which might scare the person they are talking about. Third, again that attorney thing. Both Tommy and Misty went to the dock without their attorneys. No way would Ron go to the dock without his attorney. IMO, they did not need to talk to Ron. LE already knew Ron's story about Joe, the dock, Lake Placid and getting rid of a body. That is 3 people - Ron, Misty and Tommy talking about that dock.

We do not know what story Tommy and/or Misty have told LE. Gma Flo told Tommy what she thought happened but that does not mean when he agreed or called BS that any of that was related to what LE knows. Tommy using "Joe" as a code does not mean that he is using "Joe" as code to LE or that LE is using "Joe" as code. I'm one of those who feels "Joe" is being used in place of "Ron." If Tommy/Misty are talking, they do not want Ron to know they are talking about him. As long as Joe is being thrown out by the players, Ron may believe that they are sticking to the Joe story when they are not. In a trial, all they have to state is that they did not want to use the real name to protect their stories from the public so when Joe was used, they went with it. However, with LE they used the real name.

One of the biggest reasons that I believe that Ron is heavily involved from the beginning and not just in the cover up after the fact or knows nothing is the interview he gave after getitng the Haleigh tattoo. Ron talked about not being left alone to be able to do what he wanted to do. Ron talked about his personal life having nothing to do with finding Haleigh. IMO, Ron having his life without being followed was more important than finding Haleigh. IMO, if Ron was only involved in the cover up, he would have talked to get his life back. Ron could have easily made a deal and I believe would have to get his life back. If Ron knew nothing, he would have done anything to get his life and privacy back. IMO, Ron was angry not just that they were invading his personal life but for one of the first times Ron could not control the situation no matter how hard he tried.

1 chump, I'm another person who looks at Ron's behavior and views it the same way you do. Great well-constructed post.
jmo
 
Two people have been said to be at the trailer in the time frame that LE is looking at: GGM and "Aunt Lisa".....we have only the brief information and rather scornful description of that visit to "bring laundry" which has changed in format in the 15 months. Teresa showed up after the 911 call in record time. We know now that she was the one who asked Misty to babysit, offering to pay her. This contradicts her story about Misty coming home Sunday and staying up all night talking to Ronald about their relationship.

GGM has shown up at two significant searches: The L-pond, and Shell Harbor (this last with TN as a named person who accompanied her). Both TN and GGM have stated there was NO FIGHT with Joe. Why would GGM or TN be so defensive about Ron getting into a fight with a punk like Joe after he stole the gun?

I never heard GGM or TN say anything disparaging about the Croslin family. They seemed ecstatic to get Misty into their family fold, going so far as to have the engagement on Teresa's birthday, and using her ring for the engagement ring.

Seems to me that LE's radar might be tuned to a channel we can't get, just yet.

Great post debs
 
Still can't get passed the fact, Jr wasn't crying/screaming in the background during the 911 call. Could someone have been there who may have taken him into the bedroom and kept him calm or quite? That someone might have been TN. She may have already been at the MH when the 911 call was made?
 
Still can't get passed the fact, Jr wasn't crying/screaming in the background during the 911 call. Could someone have been there who may have taken him into the bedroom and kept him calm or quite? That someone might have been TN. She may have already been at the MH when the 911 call was made?

She had to be! I posted this on another thread but think about it for a sec..
ETA Per Greta's interview iwht TN.
TN gets the call from Ron At 3:27,3:28am from Ron (who on the 911 call can't find his f'n phone)
TN is in her night gown,pulls her jeans on and leaves.
TN states she lives 12-15 miles away and says that it took her about 5 min to drive the distance she admits she exceeded the speed limit.
TN stated arrived at Ron's at 3:30am.

I suck at math but
at 60mph a car travels 1 mile per min 12 miles/12 min or 15miles/15min
at 120mph a car travels 2 miles per min 12 miles/6min or 15miles/7.5min
at 180mph a car travels 3 miles per min 12 miles/4min or 15miles/5min

so the theory we are to believe is TN drove 180mph to get to Ron's?
 
I don't know how long he lived there, but I do know he lived in Leesburg(with TN) where the little boy Trenton Duckett went missing and has never been found. Trentons dad went to Satsuma to show his support. I often wonder if the two know eachother personally prior to Haleighs abduction.

I've thought a lot like you Sailor. I would also add that it seems RC has no friends other than his family. I find that extremely strange in a town like this. Why are they never interviewed? The only one he had, has disappeared. How long has RC actually lived in Satsuma? Sometimes it even makes me wonder if any of this has been about Haleigh or is it a huge drug ring bust? When the Croslin clan all left Daytona and centered themselves in Satsuma, was there a change in the drug habits in Putnam County? So many questions and so few answers. Sigh.
 
Oh yeah I forgot--dismissing all those old charges also allowed him to get a concealed weapons permit. I believed twall or papa posted a link to that info quite awhile back.
 
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