George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 2

[sorrell skye]

From what you are describing, doesn't it kick it up a charge from manslaughter?

POTENTIAL CHARGE GUIDELINES


609.19 MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
Subdivision 1.Intentional murder; drive-by shootings.
Whoever does either of the following is guilty of murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:

(1) causes the death of a human being with intent to effect the death of that person or another, but without premeditation; or

(2) causes the death of a human being while committing or attempting to commit a drive-by shooting in violation of section 609.66, subdivision 1e, under circumstances other than those described in section 609.185, paragraph (a), clause (3).

Subd. 2.Unintentional murders.
Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:

(1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or

(2) causes the death of a human being without intent to effect the death of any person, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim, when the perpetrator is restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designated to receive protection under the order. As used in this clause, "order for protection" includes an order for protection issued under chapter 518B; a harassment restraining order issued under section 609.748; a court order setting conditions of pretrial release or conditions of a criminal sentence or juvenile court disposition; a restraining order issued in a marriage dissolution action; and any order issued by a court of another state or of the United States that is similar to any of these orders.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.19

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.195

609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

(b) Whoever, without intent to cause death, proximately causes the death of a human being by, directly or indirectly, unlawfully selling, giving away, bartering, delivering, exchanging, distributing, or administering a controlled substance classified in Schedule I or II, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $40,000, or both.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.205

609.205 MANSLAUGHTER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
A person who causes the death of another by any of the following means is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both:

(1) by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another; or

(2) by shooting another with a firearm or other dangerous weapon as a result of negligently believing the other to be a deer or other animal; or

(3) by setting a spring gun, pit fall, deadfall, snare, or other like dangerous weapon or device; or

(4) by negligently or intentionally permitting any animal, known by the person to have vicious propensities or to have caused great or substantial bodily harm in the past, to run uncontrolled off the owner's premises, or negligently failing to keep it properly confined; or

(5) by committing or attempting to commit a violation of section 609.378 (neglect or endangerment of a child), and murder in the first, second, or third degree is not committed thereby.

If proven by a preponderance of the evidence, it shall be an affirmative defense to criminal liability under clause (4) that the victim provoked the animal to cause the victim's death.

Article discussing charges at VERIFY: Derek Chauvin faces three charges in George Floyd's death | kare11.com

Which charge, based upon the evidence presented thus far, do you believe DC is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt?

 

[Lilibet]

I really don’t understand why Mr Floyd’s drug use or possible health issues are even in question. It is a desperate attempt by the defense to get one person on the jury to believe that Chauvin just happened to be kneeling on Mr Floyd’s neck for over nine minutes against department training and policy at the precise time his heart gave out naturally or drugs killed him. AND that Chauvin just happened to fail to render aid against department policy at the precise moment of this unproven medical/drug event. C’mon man. That’s malarkey.
JMO

 

[sorrell skye]

From what you are describing, doesn't it kick it up a charge from manslaughter?

POTENTIAL CHARGE GUIDELINES


609.19 MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
Subdivision 1.Intentional murder; drive-by shootings.
Whoever does either of the following is guilty of murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:

(1) causes the death of a human being with intent to effect the death of that person or another, but without premeditation; or

(2) causes the death of a human being while committing or attempting to commit a drive-by shooting in violation of section 609.66, subdivision 1e, under circumstances other than those described in section 609.185, paragraph (a), clause (3).

Subd. 2.Unintentional murders.
Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:

(1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or

(2) causes the death of a human being without intent to effect the death of any person, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim, when the perpetrator is restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designated to receive protection under the order. As used in this clause, "order for protection" includes an order for protection issued under chapter 518B; a harassment restraining order issued under section 609.748; a court order setting conditions of pretrial release or conditions of a criminal sentence or juvenile court disposition; a restraining order issued in a marriage dissolution action; and any order issued by a court of another state or of the United States that is similar to any of these orders.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.19

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.195

609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

(b) Whoever, without intent to cause death, proximately causes the death of a human being by, directly or indirectly, unlawfully selling, giving away, bartering, delivering, exchanging, distributing, or administering a controlled substance classified in Schedule I or II, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $40,000, or both.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.205

609.205 MANSLAUGHTER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
A person who causes the death of another by any of the following means is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both:

(1) by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another; or

(2) by shooting another with a firearm or other dangerous weapon as a result of negligently believing the other to be a deer or other animal; or

(3) by setting a spring gun, pit fall, deadfall, snare, or other like dangerous weapon or device; or

(4) by negligently or intentionally permitting any animal, known by the person to have vicious propensities or to have caused great or substantial bodily harm in the past, to run uncontrolled off the owner's premises, or negligently failing to keep it properly confined; or

(5) by committing or attempting to commit a violation of section 609.378 (neglect or endangerment of a child), and murder in the first, second, or third degree is not committed thereby.

If proven by a preponderance of the evidence, it shall be an affirmative defense to criminal liability under clause (4) that the victim provoked the animal to cause the victim's death.

Article discussing charges at VERIFY: Derek Chauvin faces three charges in George Floyd's death | kare11.com

Which charge, based upon the evidence presented thus far, do you believe DC is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt?

From what you are describing, doesn't it kick it up a charge from manslaughter?

POTENTIAL CHARGE GUIDELINES


609.19 MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
Subdivision 1.Intentional murder; drive-by shootings.
Whoever does either of the following is guilty of murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:

(1) causes the death of a human being with intent to effect the death of that person or another, but without premeditation; or

(2) causes the death of a human being while committing or attempting to commit a drive-by shooting in violation of section 609.66, subdivision 1e, under circumstances other than those described in section 609.185, paragraph (a), clause (3).

Subd. 2.Unintentional murders.
Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:

(1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or

(2) causes the death of a human being without intent to effect the death of any person, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim, when the perpetrator is restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designated to receive protection under the order. As used in this clause, "order for protection" includes an order for protection issued under chapter 518B; a harassment restraining order issued under section 609.748; a court order setting conditions of pretrial release or conditions of a criminal sentence or juvenile court disposition; a restraining order issued in a marriage dissolution action; and any order issued by a court of another state or of the United States that is similar to any of these orders.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.19

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.195

609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

(b) Whoever, without intent to cause death, proximately causes the death of a human being by, directly or indirectly, unlawfully selling, giving away, bartering, delivering, exchanging, distributing, or administering a controlled substance classified in Schedule I or II, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $40,000, or both.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.205

609.205 MANSLAUGHTER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
A person who causes the death of another by any of the following means is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both:

(1) by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another; or

(2) by shooting another with a firearm or other dangerous weapon as a result of negligently believing the other to be a deer or other animal; or

(3) by setting a spring gun, pit fall, deadfall, snare, or other like dangerous weapon or device; or

(4) by negligently or intentionally permitting any animal, known by the person to have vicious propensities or to have caused great or substantial bodily harm in the past, to run uncontrolled off the owner's premises, or negligently failing to keep it properly confined; or

(5) by committing or attempting to commit a violation of section 609.378 (neglect or endangerment of a child), and murder in the first, second, or third degree is not committed thereby.

If proven by a preponderance of the evidence, it shall be an affirmative defense to criminal liability under clause (4) that the victim provoked the animal to cause the victim's death.

Article discussing charges at VERIFY: Derek Chauvin faces three charges in George Floyd's death | kare11.com

Here's the relevant portion of the Minnesota Criminal Code regarding 2nd degree murder in this case:

609.19 MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
Subdivision 1.Intentional murder; drive-by shootings.
Whoever does either of the following is guilty of murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:

(1) causes the death of a human being with intent to effect the death of that person or another, but without premeditation; or

Question: did Derek Chauvin intend to cause George Floyd's death?

 

[SouthAussie]

Which charge, based upon the evidence presented thus far, do you believe DC is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt?


Here's the relevant portion of the Minnesota Criminal Code regarding 2nd degree murder in this case:

609.19 MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
Subdivision 1.Intentional murder; drive-by shootings.
Whoever does either of the following is guilty of murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:

(1) causes the death of a human being with intent to effect the death of that person or another, but without premeditation; or

Question: did Derek Chauvin intend to cause George Floyd's death?

Chauvin is charged with unintentional 2nd degree murder. Subd 2 in dixie's post.

I am not sure that I can fit his actions (or inactions) into that category at the moment.

 

[Lilibet]

Which charge, based upon the evidence presented thus far, do you believe DC is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt?

It will depend on how “an act eminently dangerous to others” is interpreted, but the rest of it fits beyond a reasonable doubt IMO based on evidence I have heard (and seen) so far.

609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

BBM

 

[MsBetsy]

Which charge, based upon the evidence presented thus far, do you believe DC is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt?


Here's the relevant portion of the Minnesota Criminal Code regarding 2nd degree murder in this case:

609.19 MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
Subdivision 1.Intentional murder; drive-by shootings.
Whoever does either of the following is guilty of murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:

(1) causes the death of a human being with intent to effect the death of that person or another, but without premeditation; or

Question: did Derek Chauvin intend to cause George Floyd's death?

He's charged with unintentional second degree murder. So the prosecution has to show that Chauvin caused his death while committing or trying to commit a felony (3rd degree assault.) If he knew that kneeling on his neck for nine minutes could have caused great bodily harm or death, then he could be found guilty of second degree murder. Imo

 

[sorrell skye]

Chauvin is charged with unintentional 2nd degree murder. Subd 2 in dixie's post.

I am not sure that I can fit his actions (or inactions) into that category at the moment.

Thank you for correcting me. I appreciate it.

Can someone please quote the specific statute that is relevant so that I may offer commentary? I've only seen huge swathes of statutes.

 

[MsBetsy]

Thank you for correcting me. I appreciate it.

Can someone please quote the specific statute that is relevant so that I may offer commentary? I've only seen huge swathes of statutes.

Unintentional second degree murder is when someone causes the death of another while committing a felony or attempting to commit a felony. (Like when someone is killed during a robbery or kidnapping.)

That's from memory but I think that's right.

 

[sorrell skye]

IMO, the Minnesota Criminal Code is confusing, compared to my state.
I'm struggling to comprehend it.

Thank you to my friends for correcting me and for interpreting it for me.

I love you.

I want to interpret it correctly.

I want Justice for George Floyd.

 

[BoyThatsWeird]

IMO, one thing that all addicts are addicted to, and that is MORE ! Eventually a returning addict will require more than they used previously. Or, end up ODing. And, just to add that a recent offender as Mr Floyd was, being stopped and questioned by LE might have had him ingest all the rest of any illegal substances in his car or on his person at the time...so as not to get busted with illegal drugs. All of that can contribute to a lethal dose of Fentanyl, found per the autopsy IMO.

That's precisely what defense is going to argue. During the body cam footage, there is a white object in his mouth that can be seen on still shots. Pre-trial, defense was already leading to this. Also, in 2019, George Floyd did the same thing and ingested drugs while the officer approaches the vehicle that he is a passenger in. Defense tried to make the 2019 arrest body cam admissible in this case, as they wanted to establish an MO for when Floyd is faced with this situation.

The two pills found in the vehicle int he 2020 arrest were manufactured as if they were Percocet (markings, size, color) but were tested and contained fentanyl and meth (two drugs that are not in pharmacy grade Percocets).

I still think Chavin is guilty as sin, but wanted to point this out.

 

[sorrell skye]

I ain't afraid of being called out for being incorrect!

I love my fellow Websleuthers - y'all are the best.

Much Love.

 

[MsBetsy]

IMO, the Minnesota Criminal Code is confusing, compared to my state.
I'm struggling to comprehend it.

Thank you to my friends for correcting me and for interpreting it for me.

I love you.

I want to interpret it correctly.

I want Justice for George Floyd.

It is very broad and confusing.

 

[Lilibet]

Can someone please quote the specific statute that is relevant so that I may offer commentary? I've only seen huge swathes of statutes.

There are three charges Chauvin faces:

When former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin goes on trial Monday for the May 25 killing of George Floyd, he will face three charges: second-degree unintentional murder, third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter.

For a conviction of second-degree unintentional murder, the state's prosecutors will have to show beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin caused Floyd's death while assaulting him.
<snip>

Third-degree murder requires prosecutors to prove that someone caused the death of another "by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life." Legal experts note that the definition of "depraved mind" is murky— as is the legal line between "depraved mind" and the "culpable negligence" standard for manslaughter.
<snip>
Explaining his decision to reinstate the third-degree murder charge Thursday, Cahill noted that the Noor ruling established a legal precedent that "murder in the third degree applies even if the person's intent and acts are directed at a single person," and therefore the charge could be applicable to the Chauvin case.
<snip>

In order to convict Chauvin of second-degree manslaughter, prosecutors will need to show beyond a reasonable doubt that he was "culpably negligent" and took an "unreasonable risk" with Floyd's life when he restrained him and that his actions put Floyd at risk of death or great harm. Prosecutors do not have to prove that Chauvin's actions intended to cause Floyd's death, only that his actions put Floyd at risk of death or great bodily harm.

Comprehensive explanations and links here:
What are the charges against ex-Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin in the killing of George Floyd?

 

[Rocky1]

I know it was discussed earlier if Lane's car was running.
I agree that after a car is shut off some condensation will continue to drip, however, IMO, you'd never get a stream of water that long after a car was shut off on a day where the ambient temp is 76 degrees and the dew point is 63, unless the drain in the condensate pan was partially blocked and the pan was full of water.

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Time stamp @ 6.21.30 you can see Lane exit the car and he leaves it running.

 

[sorrell skye]

There are three charges Chauvin faces:

When former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin goes on trial Monday for the May 25 killing of George Floyd, he will face three charges: second-degree unintentional murder, third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter.

For a conviction of second-degree unintentional murder, the state's prosecutors will have to show beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin caused Floyd's death while assaulting him.
<snip>

Third-degree murder requires prosecutors to prove that someone caused the death of another "by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life." Legal experts note that the definition of "depraved mind" is murky— as is the legal line between "depraved mind" and the "culpable negligence" standard for manslaughter.
<snip>
Explaining his decision to reinstate the third-degree murder charge Thursday, Cahill noted that the Noor ruling established a legal precedent that "murder in the third degree applies even if the person's intent and acts are directed at a single person," and therefore the charge could be applicable to the Chauvin case.
<snip>

In order to convict Chauvin of second-degree manslaughter, prosecutors will need to show beyond a reasonable doubt that he was "culpably negligent" and took an "unreasonable risk" with Floyd's life when he restrained him and that his actions put Floyd at risk of death or great harm. Prosecutors do not have to prove that Chauvin's actions intended to cause Floyd's death, only that his actions put Floyd at risk of death or great bodily harm.

Comprehensive explanations and links here:
What are the charges against ex-Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin in the killing of George Floyd?

Merci Beaucoup Lilibet!

This is sooo helpful!

 

[Lilibet]

Merci Beaucoup Lilibet!

This is sooo helpful!

It helps me too! It’s so complicated. I’m afraid the jurors will also find it confusing.

 

[sorrell skye]

That's precisely what defense is going to argue. During the body cam footage, there is a white object in his mouth that can be seen on still shots. Pre-trial, defense was already leading to this. Also, in 2019, George Floyd did the same thing and ingested drugs while the officer approaches the vehicle that he is a passenger in. Defense tried to make the 2019 arrest body cam admissible in this case, as they wanted to establish an MO for when Floyd is faced with this situation.

The two pills found in the vehicle int he 2020 arrest were manufactured as if they were Percocet (markings, size, color) but were tested and contained fentanyl and meth (two drugs that are not in pharmacy grade Percocets).

I still think Chavin is guilty as sin, but wanted to point this out.

BBM

I haven't seen that evidence (the BBM) in court.

Can you please help me and either link the video (with a timestamp) or post a specific pic that depicts what you've described above?

I'm not contesting what you're stating, I'm just asking (if you're able) to post the evidence.

TY so much, if you're able & willing to do so.

 

[sorrell skye]

It helps me too! It’s so complicated. I’m afraid the jurors will also find it confusing.

I'm worried that the way the Minnesota Criminal Code is written, the jurors might be so confused that they either acquit Chauvin or the jury ends up unable to reach consensus - a hung jury. That's my fear.

 

[sorrell skye]

That's precisely what defense is going to argue. During the body cam footage, there is a white object in his mouth that can be seen on still shots. Pre-trial, defense was already leading to this. Also, in 2019, George Floyd did the same thing and ingested drugs while the officer approaches the vehicle that he is a passenger in. Defense tried to make the 2019 arrest body cam admissible in this case, as they wanted to establish an MO for when Floyd is faced with this situation.

The two pills found in the vehicle int he 2020 arrest were manufactured as if they were Percocet (markings, size, color) but were tested and contained fentanyl and meth (two drugs that are not in pharmacy grade Percocets).

I still think Chavin is guilty as sin, but wanted to point this out.

Above BBM

Has the above bolded portion been admitted into evidence?

If not, it's not relevant to this case, nor is it evidence in his death.

Is this evidence? I haven't heard of it.

I haven't followed this case closely until trial. So if I haven't heard of something, it's maybe likely that it's not evidence.

I've only heard of what's been reported on cable news - which is not much.

 

[sorrell skye]

I know George Floyd died while in police custody.
Until the trial commenced, I haven't been able to watch the video of Chauvin's knee on George Floyd's neck.

When the trial started, I told myself: You must bear witness.

And I have.

I've watched every unbearable minute of the video shown in court

I will continue to bear witness to the last moments of George Floyd's life.

I'm sorry George. I'm so sorry.

You didn't deserve to be treated the way you were treated.