George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 2

[MsBetsy]

One person's erratically is another person's normal.

That's true. His behavior could also be interpreted as similar to that of certain mental health conditions.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

What the heck happened to teaching children the ABC's?
Children need to know reading and arithmetic.
They do NOT need to try to analyze the actions of an admitted drug user and how he died during a trial that is in session without a verdict yet to be determined.
The REAL employers "anywhere" in this world will NOT care a whit about how these students feel about this trial.
Employers want people who can read and write, take responsibility and make their
Companies money.
They will never give a whit about their thoughts and/or feelings about this trial.
What the heck is wrong with these teachers?
They seem to be trying how to be more "woke then the next teacher".
Stop politizing our youth!
My opinion. Absolutely. MOO

Thankfully the assignment was shut down by the school district.

 

[sorrell skye]

Too much of a coincidence that George 'died from an OD' during the exact moments that officers were kneeling on his neck, as well as compressing his lungs against the hard road surface. Limiting/stopping his body from being able to intake adequate oxygen.

Thank you for saying this, SouthAussie, my dear one.

Yes. And even IF George Floyd had experienced an overdose, it does NOT absolve Chauvin from the responsibility of providing care once GF was restrained with handcuffs and prone on the ground.

A knee pressed forcefully into the lateral side of anyone's neck for 9:29 minutes until their heart stops beating is NOT providing care.

A knee pressed forcefully into the lateral side of someone's neck for 9:29 minutes until their heart stops beating is a deadly assault under any circumstances, IMO.

 

[sorrell skye]

I await the Medical Examiner's testimony.

I expect it to include information regarding how compression of the carotid artery impairs blood flow to the brain, resulting in cerebral ischemia and hypoxia.

I expect the ME to testify that lack of blood flow to George Floyd's brain due to Derek Chauvin's knee compressing the lateral side of George's neck resulted in cardiac arrest.

 

[MsBetsy]

Thank you for saying this, SouthAussie, my dear one.

Yes. And even IF George Floyd had experienced an overdose, it does NOT absolve Chauvin from the responsibility of providing care once GF was restrained with handcuffs and prone on the ground.

A knee pressed forcefully into the lateral side of anyone's neck for 9:29 minutes until their heart stops beating is NOT providing care.

A knee pressed forcefully into the lateral side of someone's neck for 9:29 minutes until their heart stops beating is a deadly assault under any circumstances, IMO.

I'm amazed the chokehold and knee on the neck maneuver was allowed for so long in that state. So many people have high blood pressure and other heart conditions and don't even know it. It's dangerous even for a healthy person.

What was it they called the method in the lawsuit? Killology?

I still don't understand how the MPD was allowed to continue using it after the mayor banned it in 2019.

 

[Gibbo214]

In my further review of the autopsy report, it is evident that GF had some serious heart disease.

"Cross sections of the vessels show multifocal atherosclerosis, with 75% proximal and 75% mid narrowing of the left anterior descending coronary artery; 75% proximal narrowing of the 1st diagonal branch of the left anterior descending coronary artery; 25% proximal narrowing of the circumflex coronary artery; and 90% proximal narrowing of the right coronary artery. "

IMO as a Cardiac Nurse, GF had serious triple vessel disease. Serious enough to possibly require Open Heart surgery, or at the least some staged interventions implanting multiple stents. I might even go so far to say that a Cardiologist might opine that he was a " walking time bomb" or similar descriptor, especially in light of his recent history of drug overdose and continued drug use. IMO, If one is to continue adding Meth and Fentanyl combined, (with all their pleasant and not so pleasant effects ) to their already stressed out, damaged and overworked heart, disaster is bound to occur.

'Might' is the operative word here.

 

[SouthAussie]

I see this case, with all of its ramifications, as a great time for all of us to reassess our own selves and our thought patterns.

I do, too. At WS we support our police officers wholeheartedly. We understand the tough job they do. We understand that society would be a hot mess without their efforts at crime control, law and order.

To be able to put that to one side and see that these officers did a wrong thing ... something that led to the death of a man. By not placing George in the recovery position when they should have done so, as per police policy and training, so that he could breathe.

That takes a reassessment of what we know to be true in police officers - that (most) police officers are there to protect us all.

 

[CrimeAway]

In my further review of the autopsy report, it is evident that GF had some serious heart disease.

"Cross sections of the vessels show multifocal atherosclerosis, with 75% proximal and 75% mid narrowing of the left anterior descending coronary artery; 75% proximal narrowing of the 1st diagonal branch of the left anterior descending coronary artery; 25% proximal narrowing of the circumflex coronary artery; and 90% proximal narrowing of the right coronary artery. "

IMO as a Cardiac Nurse, GF had serious triple vessel disease. Serious enough to possibly require Open Heart surgery, or at the least some staged interventions implanting multiple stents. I might even go so far to say that a Cardiologist might opine that he was a " walking time bomb" or similar descriptor, especially in light of his recent history of drug overdose and continued drug use. IMO, If one is to continue adding Meth and Fentanyl combined, (with all their pleasant and not so pleasant effects ) to their already stressed out, damaged and overworked heart, disaster is bound to occur.

Today I discovered (through a medical forum, and confirmed through the link below), that a substantial or complete blockage of the left anterior descending cardiac artery is known as a "widow maker."

Source: https://www.novanthealth.org/healthy-headlines/how-to-check-your-heart-health

So much for not getting sucked into this case

 

[sorrell skye]

Today I discovered (through a medical forum, and confirmed through the link below), that a substantial or complete blockage of the left anterior descending cardiac artery is known as a "widow maker."

Source: https://www.novanthealth.org/healthy-headlines/how-to-check-your-heart-health

So much for not getting sucked into this case

Did the ME's report conclude that George Floyd died as the result of blockage to any cardiac artery?

If not, then how is this relevant to George Floyd's death?

 

[Lilibet]

In my further review of the autopsy report, it is evident that GF had some serious heart disease.

"Cross sections of the vessels show multifocal atherosclerosis, with 75% proximal and 75% mid narrowing of the left anterior descending coronary artery; 75% proximal narrowing of the 1st diagonal branch of the left anterior descending coronary artery; 25% proximal narrowing of the circumflex coronary artery; and 90% proximal narrowing of the right coronary artery. "

IMO as a Cardiac Nurse, GF had serious triple vessel disease. Serious enough to possibly require Open Heart surgery, or at the least some staged interventions implanting multiple stents. I might even go so far to say that a Cardiologist might opine that he was a " walking time bomb" or similar descriptor, especially in light of his recent history of drug overdose and continued drug use. IMO, If one is to continue adding Meth and Fentanyl combined, (with all their pleasant and not so pleasant effects ) to their already stressed out, damaged and overworked heart, disaster is bound to occur.

But again, regardless of Mr Floyd’s drug use and serious medical issues, Chauvin was the one with his knee on his neck, refusing to render aid. The potential “disaster” you speak of could have been hours, days or weeks away but for the action and inhumane inaction of Chauvin....like a nurse hurrying along the death of a terminally ill patient and withholding care...as I mentioned in a previous post.
JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

I await the Medical Examiner's testimony.

I expect it to include information regarding how compression of the carotid artery impairs blood flow to the brain, resulting in cerebral ischemia and hypoxia.

I expect the ME to testify that lack of blood flow to George Floyd's brain due to Derek Chauvin's knee compressing the lateral side of George's neck resulted in cardiac arrest.

Yes, and also the fact that the weight and extensive pressure prevented his diaphragm and lungs from working properly.

 

[Gibbo214]

Today I discovered (through a medical forum, and confirmed through the link below), that a substantial or complete blockage of the left anterior descending cardiac artery is known as a "widow maker."

Source: https://www.novanthealth.org/healthy-headlines/how-to-check-your-heart-health

So much for not getting sucked into this case

Beware of Internet diagnostics.

 

[sorrell skye]

Yes, and also the fact that the weight and extensive pressure prevented his diaphragm and lungs from working properly.

Thank You MsBetsy. Yes - positional asphyxia will also undoubtedly be discussed by the ME.

The gaslighting the Defense is attempting will not hold up under the watchful eye of Medical Science.

 

[CrimeAway]

Did the ME's report conclude that George Floyd died as the result of blockage to any cardiac artery?

If not, then how is this relevant to George Floyd's death?

The medical examiner concluded that Mr. Floyd died from cardiopulmonary arrest. AFAIK, significant occlusion of the cardiac arteries (and the LAD in particular), can be ONE causative factor for cardiopulmonary arrest.

I am trying to explore all of the facts of this case before I form a final opinion.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

The cause of death is most often multi-factorial with a multitude of causes. We had this discussion so many times in the COVID thread.

As this relates to the COVID discussion, assume you have a patient that and was a smoker, had high blood pressure, was morbidly obese, and had diabetes... And then they got COVID. He died of COVID but all the others are indirect cause of death. COVID was the direct cause of death.

He died of cardiopulmonary arrest. For GF, Chauvin et al was the direct cause of GF's death per both autopsy results, and was noted a homicide as manner of death. Prolonged compression asphyxia and positional asphyxia contributed MOO.

No matter his heart condition or drugs, LE minimally hastened his death. I don't see any way around that.

MOO

Dr. Hansen MedCram overview is in the media thread.

 

[MsBetsy]

Did the ME's report conclude that George Floyd died as the result of blockage to any cardiac artery?

If not, then how is this relevant to George Floyd's death?

Do we know if he had any known medical conditions before his death? His girlfriend said he was active and healthy, but that's all I've heard about that. I would imagine when he was hospitalized for the overdose they would have noticed if he had any significant heart disease.

 

[CrimeAway]

Beware of Internet diagnostics.

I am aware of the potential problems of playing Dr Google. I just wish to expand and explore on issues that I feel may be relevant.
I am more than familiar with using the internet to access medical information, and have been regularly tasked with doing such in a clinical setting

 

[sorrell skye]

Do we know if he had any known medical conditions before his death? His girlfriend said he was active and healthy, but that's all I've heard about that. I would imagine when he was hospitalized for the overdose they would have noticed if he had any significant heart disease.

I don't know, honey.

Here's what I do know: Derek Chauvin's knee compression on George Floyd's lateral neck, IMO, substantially contributed to his death, regardless of any other health factors.

9:29. Nine minutes and twenty-nine seconds.

That was how long Derek Chauvin pressed his knee into George Floyd's lateral neck, compressing his carotid artery, blocking blood flow to his brain.

IMO, the current evidence supports a conviction of at least 2nd degree manslaughter.

I await further evidence that may support one of the higher charges.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I don't know, honey.

Here's what I do know: Derek Chauvin's knee compression on George Floyd's lateral neck, IMO, substantially contributed to his death, regardless of any other health factors.

9:29. Nine minutes and twenty-nine seconds.

That was how long Derek Chauvin pressed his knee into George Floyd's lateral neck, compressing his carotid artery, blocking blood flow to his brain.

IMO, the current evidence supports a conviction of at least 2nd degree manslaughter.

I await further evidence that may support one of the higher charges.

From what you are describing, doesn't it kick it up a charge from manslaughter?

POTENTIAL CHARGE GUIDELINES


609.19 MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
Subdivision 1.Intentional murder; drive-by shootings.
Whoever does either of the following is guilty of murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:

(1) causes the death of a human being with intent to effect the death of that person or another, but without premeditation; or

(2) causes the death of a human being while committing or attempting to commit a drive-by shooting in violation of section 609.66, subdivision 1e, under circumstances other than those described in section 609.185, paragraph (a), clause (3).

Subd. 2.Unintentional murders.
Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:

(1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or

(2) causes the death of a human being without intent to effect the death of any person, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim, when the perpetrator is restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designated to receive protection under the order. As used in this clause, "order for protection" includes an order for protection issued under chapter 518B; a harassment restraining order issued under section 609.748; a court order setting conditions of pretrial release or conditions of a criminal sentence or juvenile court disposition; a restraining order issued in a marriage dissolution action; and any order issued by a court of another state or of the United States that is similar to any of these orders.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.19

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.195

609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

(b) Whoever, without intent to cause death, proximately causes the death of a human being by, directly or indirectly, unlawfully selling, giving away, bartering, delivering, exchanging, distributing, or administering a controlled substance classified in Schedule I or II, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $40,000, or both.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.205

609.205 MANSLAUGHTER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
A person who causes the death of another by any of the following means is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both:

(1) by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another; or

(2) by shooting another with a firearm or other dangerous weapon as a result of negligently believing the other to be a deer or other animal; or

(3) by setting a spring gun, pit fall, deadfall, snare, or other like dangerous weapon or device; or

(4) by negligently or intentionally permitting any animal, known by the person to have vicious propensities or to have caused great or substantial bodily harm in the past, to run uncontrolled off the owner's premises, or negligently failing to keep it properly confined; or

(5) by committing or attempting to commit a violation of section 609.378 (neglect or endangerment of a child), and murder in the first, second, or third degree is not committed thereby.

If proven by a preponderance of the evidence, it shall be an affirmative defense to criminal liability under clause (4) that the victim provoked the animal to cause the victim's death.

Article discussing charges at VERIFY: Derek Chauvin faces three charges in George Floyd's death | kare11.com

 

[MsBetsy]

The medical examiner concluded that Mr. Floyd died from cardiopulmonary arrest. AFAIK, significant occlusion of the cardiac arteries (and the LAD in particular), can be ONE causative factor for cardiopulmonary arrest.

I am trying to explore all of the facts of this case before I form a final opinion.

The COD was "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression."

So the question is, did his heart stop due to police actions or was he having a heart attack despite anything they did?

Either way, not being able to breathe can be a serious medical condition and police should have helped him before they ever forced him out of the car and restrained him.