George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 2

[Lilibet]

You didn't deserve to be treated the way you were treated.

Unfortunately, the defense will attempt to persuade one person on the jury that Mr Floyd did indeed deserve to be treated the way he was treated. The discussion here of his health and drug use is but a preview.
JMO

 

[Niner]

@JerseyGirl - again - could you "tag" me when the trial for Day 7 opens up? TIA!

 

[sorrell skye]

Unfortunately, the defense will attempt to persuade one person on the jury that Mr Floyd did indeed deserve to be treated the way he was treated. The discussion here of his health and drug use is but a preview.
JMO

I know - and it's disturbing.

Distortions
Some dare to look into the mirror
Many don't
Many won't
Out of fear
Or smug assurance
Seek easy comfort
In the status quo

Distortions
Some dare to look into the mirror

Dare to look
Dare to break the mirror
Dare to break
The status quo

Distortions
Dare to look

Dare to look into the mirror
Dare to look
Dare...

by Sorrell Skye

 

[sds71]

During court proceedings on another matter Monday, Nelson asserted for the first time that fragments of a pill with Floyd’s DNA on it were found in the back of the squad car. The fragments contained methamphetamine and fentanyl, he claimed. Prosecutors acknowledged the existence of the pill fragments and that they contained methamphetamine, but they did not address the other claims.…
The “foam” around Floyd’s mouth was probably spittle, they said, and “hooping” was a reference to playing basketball, which Floyd often did. They also noted Nelson’s conflicting claims that Floyd had taken drugs orally and rectally. The prosecutors did not respond to a request for an interview.
The biggest problem for the defense argument is that events that evening don’t fit a fentanyl overdose, experts said.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...d4f328-76ec-11eb-9537-496158cc5fd9_story.html

When questioned by police later, both of the passengers in Mr. Floyd’s vehicle asserted their belief that Mr. Floyd was under the influence of narcotics. Ms. Hill told investigators that Mr. Floyd was “probably on some pills or something.”
At the time officers approached George Floyd in the vehicle, there were outstanding felony warrants in the State of Minnesota for Mr. Hall, including one for being a felon in possession of a firearm. (Id.). When questioned at the scene, Mr. Hall provided officers with a false name and another person’s identification. (Id.). However, because of George Floyd’s resistance, officers were unable to question Mr. Hall, search his person or his backpack. In fact, surveillance video from the nearby Dragon Wok restaurant shows that Mr. Hall appeared to use Mr. Floyd’s resistance as a distraction to destroy evidence. The video demonstrates that Mr. Hall watched through the windows of Mr. Floyd’s vehicle to ensure that he was not being observed by police. (M.D. at 3). Then, using Ms. Hill’s body and the vehicle to shield himself from view, Mr. Hall furtively dropped something into the sewer drain on the street.
https://kstp.com/kstpImages/repository/cs/files/Brief - Respondent.pdf

 

[Ray_of_hope]

I await the Medical Examiner's testimony.

I expect it to include information regarding how compression of the carotid artery impairs blood flow to the brain, resulting in cerebral ischemia and hypoxia.

I expect the ME to testify that lack of blood flow to George Floyd's brain due to Derek Chauvin's knee compressing the lateral side of George's neck resulted in cardiac arrest.

The one thing that bothers me is that while compressing Mr Floyd's neck with his knee, the other side of his neck is being compressed by the pavement. This event could have easily, IMO, compressed both carotids. If you look at the photo, Mr Floyd's head is turned into a position that I feel could be from both sides of his neck being compressed. Pavement is not forgiving, nor is Chauvin's knee. Blocking the blood flow from both carotid arteries through external pressure would then stop oxygenated blood from reaching the brain which would result in asphyxia. I'm just spitballing but it's got me wondering why this hasn't been brought up.

 

[SouthAussie]

The one thing that bothers me is that while compressing Mr Floyd's neck with his knee, the other side of his neck is being compressed by the pavement. This event could have easily, IMO, compressed both carotids. If you look at the photo, Mr Floyd's head is turned into a position that I feel could be from both sides of his neck being compressed. Pavement is not forgiving, nor is Chauvin's knee. Blocking the blood flow from both carotid arteries through external pressure would then stop oxygenated blood from reaching the brain which would result in asphyxia. I'm just spitballing but it's got me wondering why this hasn't been brought up.

I think it will be ... when the prosecutor really gets into the medical evidence. That has not yet started.

The prosecutor is building the picture. George in the shop buying his cigarettes and joking with the staff, George being pulled out of the car, his pleas and apologies, the shocked and traumatised bystanders, the girlfriend who attested to George's drug use and how that came about, the medical staff that arrived at the scene - and those that treated George at the hospital - the senior officers that took charge of the critical incident, the training received by the officers, the stance of the mayor who represents the city.

I think the prosecutor will get to the medical stuff (ME and autopsy stuff) - the force on George's neck, the force on George's lungs, the length of time it takes for a person to succumb to such things.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

I think it will be ... when the prosecutor really gets into the medical evidence. That has not yet started.

The prosecutor is building the picture. George in the shop buying his cigarettes and joking with the staff, George being pulled out of the car, his pleas and apologies, the shocked and traumatised bystanders, the girlfriend who attested to George's drug use and how that came about, the medical staff that arrived at the scene - and those that treated George at the hospital - the senior officers that took charge of the critical incident, the training received by the officers, the stance of the mayor who represents the city.

I think the prosecutor will get to the medical stuff (ME and autopsy stuff) - the force on George's neck, the force on George's lungs, the length of time it takes for a person to succumb to such things.

Good morning, SouthAussie. I just thought that the prosecution would ask the ER doc if carotid compression from both sides was a possibility. I just haven't seen it mentioned anywhere. I'm hopeful it will be brought up. Just another nail and angle.

 

[JerseyGirl]

I set up a trial thread for today and will close this one shortly:

MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #10 - Chauvin Trial Day 7

@Niner

 

[margarita25]

Cross examination of Lt. Mercil begins at around 23:00.
- Discussion of "holds" is at 40:00
- Discussion of position of knee vs carotid artery at 49:00
-Introduction of body cam stills from about 49:50.
-Lt states that he agrees that the knee is across the shoulder blades at 56:00

Remember, if you want to catch up on all of the cross, you can speed up to 1:25 or higher . HTH.

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Thanks again, just finished watching entire segment and taking notes, which are too long to comment on atm, worn out.

My short answer is that I have rebuttals to what the defense presented in terms of all this, many points which were also made by the prosecution, and perhaps by some here (need to read back). I’d like to present the rebuttals when I’m less tired, so later - Short answer, this didn’t change my “opinion” whatsoever, but will elaborate why more later. I think the timestamps are relevant to look over all this again and put together the big picture wrt context of these still photos taken from Officer L’s camera (Exhibits 1046-1048).

Eta: Just because DC may have his knee on GF’s shoulder in some later taken stills, doesn’t mean it was in this spot the whole time. We know it wasn’t, that seems to be the best they can come up with. It was already too late, I’m thinking. Again, sorry for short answer, will elaborate more later. I need to look over all this.

 

[missy1974]

They've shown this pic in court several times and on the video. I'll go back to see if I can find the video.
picture of Chauvin - Google Search

I was able to pull this from the trial thread since I was in the process of replying when it closed LOL (grabbed a few more too haha )

I do not believe his hand is in his pocket.

There are a lot of things that have been said repeatedly since it happened that may not be true. It don't think all of those statements are intentional untruths, but perception at the time.

Which is kind of interesting now that I think of it, GH, the off duty FF STILL believes he had his hand in his pocket. She was looking from that angle, and that still photo might even be from her video. Perception from that angle may not be what it appears. JMO

 

[missy1974]

I thought so, as well. However after seeing the other photos and enlarging... moo it appears to me Chauvin is turned at an inward angle and his knee is in his shoulder blade. His foot is even turned sideways, showing he could not be applying pressure.

I originally thought, based on just the witness video his knee on the neck but seeing the other angle of the LE video he was on his shoulder blade.

MOO, fluid and subject to change.

Nelson did point out that his (DC's) knee was pointed towards the vehicle.

I’ve had a hard time with the photo from the beginning. It just didn’t seem possible to reproduce the knee on the neck with his foot turned inward.
I’ve gotten down on the floor with a pillow numerous times and tried to duplicate. When my ankle/foot is turned inward I found it impossible to apply pressure.

hmmm wonder if I can convince my hubby to get on the floor Most stills, his ankle is inwards, but toes outwards? I am I misunderstanding?

 

[margarita25]

Dbm

 

[SouthAussie]

I was able to pull this from the trial thread since I was in the process of replying when it closed LOL (grabbed a few more too haha )

I do not believe his hand is in his pocket.

There are a lot of things that have been said repeatedly since it happened that may not be true. It don't think all of those statements are intentional untruths, but perception at the time.

Which is kind of interesting now that I think of it, GH, the off duty FF STILL believes he had his hand in his pocket. She was looking from that angle, and that still photo might even be from her video. Perception from that angle may not be what it appears. JMO

If you blow this pic up really large (as I did) you can see Chauvin had his hand in his pocket - at least some of the time. There are other pics out there where you can see his hand was not in his pocket as well.
In this pic there is no outline of his hand on his leg, it is underneath the smooth surface of his pants.

This pic also shows clearly that Chauvin was kneeling on George's neck.



Blackwell then played the video, which was captured by a bystander and shared on social media. It shows Chauvin with his hands in his pockets, pressing his knee into Floyd's neck as he is handcuffed face down behind a police car.
George Floyd video: Derek Chauvin jurors watch 9-minute video of death

Hansen, who video recorded some of the episode, said Chauvin, who did not speak to her, "seemed very comfortable" with the majority of his weight balanced on top of Floyd's neck.
"In my memory, he had his hand in his pocket he looked so comfortable," Hansen said.
Key takeaways from Day 2 of the Derek Chauvin trial

 

[margarita25]

Dbm

 

[missy1974]

If you blow this pic up really large (as I did) you can see Chauvin had his hand in his pocket - at least some of the time. There are other pics out there where you can see his hand was not in his pocket as well.
In this pic there is no outline of his hand on his leg, it is underneath the smooth surface of his pants.

This pic also shows clearly that Chauvin was kneeling on George's neck.

View attachment 291654

Blackwell then played the video, which was captured by a bystander and shared on social media. It shows Chauvin with his hands in his pockets, pressing his knee into Floyd's neck as he is handcuffed face down behind a police car.
George Floyd video: Derek Chauvin jurors watch 9-minute video of death

Hansen, who video recorded some of the episode, said Chauvin, who did not speak to her, "seemed very comfortable" with the majority of his weight balanced on top of Floyd's neck.
"In my memory, he had his hand in his pocket he looked so comfortable," Hansen said.
Key takeaways from Day 2 of the Derek Chauvin trial

Hi SouthAussie! good morning

Have you had a chance to watch today's testimony?

Here is a quick link to a post from todays thread:

MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #10 - Chauvin Trial Day 7

Those photos were shown to a prosecution witness, and he said he sees Chauvin's knee/shin on the shoulder of Floyd, various time stamps.

I wish I could line them up with the bystander video's, but I'm just not that talented, JMO

Also, IMO his hand is on his leg, it is gloved so not easy to see. But it is not in his pocket IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

Hi SouthAussie! good morning

Have you had a chance to watch today's testimony?

Here is a quick link to a post from todays thread:

MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #10 - Chauvin Trial Day 7

Those photos were shown to a prosecution witness, and he said he sees Chauvin's knee/shin on the shoulder of Floyd, various time stamps.

I wish I could line them up with the bystander video's, but I'm just not that talented, JMO

Also, IMO his hand is on his leg, it is gloved so not easy to see. But it is not in his pocket IMO

Yes, I have now watched the whole trial thing from today. And I believe that there are varying poses and postures that people (not you) are not willing to see.
There are clearly pics of Chauvin with his hand in his pocket AND pics of Chauvin with his hand on his leg.

He was there for 9 mins, he changed positions for his own comfort. He didn't remain in a frozen pose for 9 mins. imo

That is why I tried to show one pic of Chauvin's hand clearly in his pocket. I could also show pics of his gloved hand on his leg, but I think there is no need for that.

 

[Algo214]

Do we have Chauvin's body camera footage during him kneeling on Floyd's back?

That would put it to rest but um, I think we don't. Convenient
JMO.

 

[SouthAussie]

Do we have Chauvin's body camera footage during him kneeling on Floyd's back?

That would put it to rest but um, I think we don't. Convenient
JMO.

Chauvin's bodycam was laying on the ground during this fatal incident. He picked it up later on.

 

[Tom_Servo]

<rsbm>

.....When one is a mature, reasonably intelligent, experienced police officer....

All terminology contrary to someone with "a depraved mind".

I think Chauvin is guilty as can be but why in the world does Minnesota have that ridiculous "depraved mind" condition in their murder law? It just seems completely unnecessary and muddies up guidelines. The verbal jury instruction is going to be critical in how that clause is explained. If you just take "depraved" and "evincing" at their Webster's Dictionary definitions it doesn't equal murder. It equals manslaughter. IMHO

 

[Algo214]

Chauvin's bodycam was laying on the ground during this fatal incident. He picked it up later on.

I'm totally aware, I was being a tiny bit ironic.