George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 2

[Gibbo214]

As much as I hate to say this, and I know it will be a death sentence for saying this, but I feel like Derek is innocent. He was just doing his job, yes he took it too far, I know, but George was resisting arrest. Plus, the amount of drugs in his system, which shouldn't be present to begin with, were incriminating. The problem with letting Derek go is that it would be a death sentence for the US. BLM will get furious and use rumor over fact, and cities will be gone in a snap. This is ridiculous. It's a hard choice here - go with the justice system and let an innocent man go (while the cities burn), or convict an innocent man and prevent pandemonium. It's confusing.

I dont agree. He had training to not take too far. He took it far and away too far. Resisting arrest should not carry a death sentence.
And I see the problem with letting DC go, is that this will go on again and again as it has again and again.

 

[missy1974]

I'm trying to keep up.......

For those who have thus far leaned toward the defense side, what are your thoughts on both of DC's knees on GF?

Now its clear (imo) DC's hand wasn't in his pocket, but he was using that hand placement on his thigh to balance himself on GF.

Learning it was two knees, not the single knee we originally saw has me even more appalled.

I didn't get to really watch everything today but I did catch that! I had read before that both knees were on him, so I wasn't surprised, but I'm not convinced that they were both on him the whole time (not that it makes it any less bad) JMO

And if I'm being honest, all these video's, I am questioning what I'm seeing now, what I thought i saw before, might not be, but yet it really looks like this or that ... and I really wish I could see all the video's side by side lined up at the same times. The State showed bits and pieces of one again today, but I wish we could just see them all together, to see if one view is just messing with the eyes, if that makes sense? lol

 

[branmuffin]

thanks didn't have time today anyway!

I don't think it's a good idea to experiment with another person who hasn't been following the trial or heard the intricacies of suffocation through asphyxia. Even experts are disagreeing as to the dangers of the event. And during training exhibits, experts have predetermined flags to ensure a person does not accidently die or suffer injury. Not worth it, imo.

 

[missy1974]

Did they find any pills in his stomach? There would not have been time to digest them.

hmm doing a quick google search, I'm getting 15-30 minutes typically. If he swallowed them right away when he saw the police, that would be 15-30 minutes.

But I think there are way more factors that would need to be looke at because these pills were homemade, no idea what they are coated with, etc. I know some pills have a 'slow release', and others have a 'fast acting' component. Maybe we will learn more about that later. JMO

How Does The Body Metabolize Medication?

 

[Gibbo214]

hmm doing a quick google search, I'm getting 15-30 minutes typically. If he swallowed them right away when he saw the police, that would be 15-30 minutes.

But I think there are way more factors that would need to be looke at because these pills were homemade, no idea what they are coated with, etc. I know some pills have a 'slow release', and others have a 'fast acting' component. Maybe we will learn more about that later. JMO

How Does The Body Metabolize Medication?

They, or the components of them be still in his digestive system. Pills have fillers, those fillers would still be in his body.

 

[sds71]

https://twitter.com/MaryMoriarty

Tomorrow in the Chauvin trial, the state should be moving into the medical testimony. Some of these witnesses will have been directly involved in treating GF, while others had nothing to do with his care. These are experts who can give an opinion once foundation is established.
We will be hearing testimony about the cause of GF’s cardiac arrest. What role, if any, did drugs and his heart condition played. Whether the cessation of oxygen (because his heart stopped) was caused by positional asphyxia, pressure on his carotid artery, or something else.

This is the list of Medical Professionals the state told the jurors in their opening statement they would hear from. Dr. Andrew Baker, the HC Medical Examiner will also testify.

 

[MsBetsy]

In any autopsy they test the stomach contents. There are always a set of routine procedures and stomach contents is one of them. If he had ingested pills when he was in the car they would be still in his stomach in pill form.

Right, but I don't know what it says about whether or not they found any pills in his stomach during the autopsy. I thought the toxicology was from blood and urine samples. I don't know how they check for traces of drugs from the stomach contents, or the liver or kidneys, for that matter. I don't know if a whole pill would be found in the stomach, especially if it was chewed or had dissolved. They only found fragments in the car.

 

[missy1974]

They, or the components of them be still in his digestive system. Pills have fillers, those fillers would still be in his body.

You could be right. I can't find much on google about homemade fentanyl/meth pills. I did see the photo of the pill and I can safely assume it was in GF's mouth for a period of time, and it looke partially dissolved. So I'm not sure.

And yes they did check the contents of his stomach, I recall it saying it was consistent to him eating bread hours before or something like that. Don't recall any note of pills.

 

[sds71]

In Minnesota, who decides a sentence: the judge or jury? Anyone know?

@MaryMoriarty

For those wondering about potential sentencing, should there be a guilty verdict, the state has asked for a greater sentence.
The judge can depart if the jury finds aggravating factors. I’ve linked the state’s questions below

One of the questions asks whether children were present, and how many saw the crime.
This may be why the state called all four juveniles, including the 9 year old.

The judge’ order says that each side can brief the issue on whether he should give a greater sentence

[URL='https://t.co/0bE1QIlDjk?amp=1']https://mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/media/High-Profile-Cases/27-CR-20-12646/ProposedInstructions10122020.pdf…[/URL]

https://mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/media/High-Profile-Cases/27-CR-20-12646/BlakelyOrder01262021.pdf…

 

[MsBetsy]

hmm doing a quick google search, I'm getting 15-30 minutes typically. If he swallowed them right away when he saw the police, that would be 15-30 minutes.

But I think there are way more factors that would need to be looke at because these pills were homemade, no idea what they are coated with, etc. I know some pills have a 'slow release', and others have a 'fast acting' component. Maybe we will learn more about that later. JMO

How Does The Body Metabolize Medication?

It also depends on the individual and their size, age, and whether or not they have any medical conditions. A heavier person would metabolize it more slowly. Imo

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Also, I heard "ain't" not ate.

I ate too many drugs, vs. I ain't do any drugs. Smh. Not a chance GF could have enunciated ate too clearly enough to distinguishthose two words.

Just the other day I was saying I wish that the experts could have isolated the voices of what was heard as that's one of FBI's specialties.

Anyway, question. They seized car 320. Where are the two blue bags after siezure that were in the trunk? The two that Thao rifeled through to look for the hobble? They are both gone in this photo. Just sticks out to me that they are missing....

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Me too. He said "I ain't," but the rest isn't clear to me. Floyd told them over and over that he couldn't breathe, he just had covid, he was claustrophobic, had anxiety, his mouth was bleeding, and was moaning and begging for his life. I think those are the things that are going to stand out to the jury, knowing the officers heard all that clearly yet did nothing to help him.

And I think now we know how he got that blood... from being pushed down against that center area of the back seat which is HARD metal or plastic MOO.

 

[Gibbo214]

Right, but I don't know what it says about whether or not they found any pills in his stomach during the autopsy. I thought the toxicology was from blood and urine samples. I don't know how they check for traces of drugs from the stomach contents, or the liver or kidneys, for that matter. I don't know if a whole pill would be found in the stomach, especially if it was chewed or had dissolved. They only found fragments in the car.

If it was chewed the fragments would be there and if it were dissolved in 15 minutes, the fluid would still be there. The reason that addicts inject into the vein is that it is almost instantaneous. Digestion is not.

 

[Gibbo214]

@MaryMoriarty

For those wondering about potential sentencing, should there be a guilty verdict, the state has asked for a greater sentence.
The judge can depart if the jury finds aggravating factors. I’ve linked the state’s questions below

One of the questions asks whether children were present, and how many saw the crime.
This may be why the state called all four juveniles, including the 9 year old.

The judge’ order says that each side can brief the issue on whether he should give a greater sentence

https://mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/media/High-Profile-Cases/27-CR-20-12646/ProposedInstructions10122020.pdf…

https://mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/media/High-Profile-Cases/27-CR-20-12646/BlakelyOrder01262021.pdf…

BBM. The crowd that DC was scared of.

 

[MsBetsy]

You could be right. I can't find much on google about homemade fentanyl/meth pills. I did see the photo of the pill and I can safely assume it was in GF's mouth for a period of time, and it looke partially dissolved. So I'm not sure.

And yes they did check the contents of his stomach, I recall it saying it was consistent to him eating bread hours before or something like that. Don't recall any note of pills.

Yes, that's all it said about the stomach contents. There were many fragments of gray-white food particles. If they tested it, I'm sure we'll find out.

 

[missy1974]

https://twitter.com/MaryMoriarty

Tomorrow in the Chauvin trial, the state should be moving into the medical testimony. Some of these witnesses will have been directly involved in treating GF, while others had nothing to do with his care. These are experts who can give an opinion once foundation is established.
We will be hearing testimony about the cause of GF’s cardiac arrest. What role, if any, did drugs and his heart condition played. Whether the cessation of oxygen (because his heart stopped) was caused by positional asphyxia, pressure on his carotid artery, or something else.

This is the list of Medical Professionals the state told the jurors in their opening statement they would hear from. Dr. Andrew Baker, the HC Medical Examiner will also testify.
https://twitter.com/MaryMoriarty/status/1379953787012444160/photo/1

You seem on top of this sds71... do you know if they are going to call Baker? the ME? He is the one that did the autopsy and I don't see him on that list.
TIA

 

[sds71]

You seem on top of this sds71... do you know if they are going to call Baker? the ME? He is the one that did the autopsy and I don't see him on that list.
TIA

Moriarty said he would be.
She’s an ex Public Defender for Hennepin County.
She’s been appearing on MSNBC to discuss the case.

 

[Gibbo214]

You seem on top of this sds71... do you know if they are going to call Baker? the ME? He is the one that did the autopsy and I don't see him on that list.
TIA

Well, he should be.

 

[MsBetsy]

If it was chewed the fragments would be there and if it were dissolved in 15 minutes, the fluid would still be there. The reason that addicts inject into the vein is that it is almost instantaneous. Digestion is not.

It's possible, but they didn't indicate in the autopsy that anything like that was found. Chewing opioids would cause most of the medicine to be released into the bloodstream faster, so I'm not sure how much would be left in the stomach.

We already know that he had metabolized fentanyl in his system, we just don't know how recently he had taken any pills. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

You seem on top of this sds71... do you know if they are going to call Baker? the ME? He is the one that did the autopsy and I don't see him on that list.
TIA

I don't know about him, but they may call Dr. Joyce Carter. She is on the witness list and can explain the second autopsy and mechanical asphyxiation caused by neck and back compression.