George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 2

[Deleted member 39678]

But how would admission of a prior drug OD influence the events that led to his death?
He did not die of a drug overdose.

I haven't heard from the defense yet. The drugs that GF injested may have been a factor in his death. JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

I haven't heard from the defense yet. The drugs that GF injested may have been a factor in his death. JMO

They could have been a factor, but that doesn't mean the COD was an overdose. The prosecution only has to show that Chauvin's actions played a significant role in his death, not that drugs did not play a role.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

They could have been a factor, but that doesn't mean the COD was an overdose. The prosecution only has to show that Chauvin's actions played a significant role in his death, not that drugs did not play a role.

I'm not sure about that. JMO

 

[kittythehare]

I haven't heard from the defense yet. The drugs that GF injested may have been a factor in his death. JMO

Am geoblocked from reading this link
Ny Daily News apparently has an article on Dr Michael Welner..
I can't even link it actually
Headline is that defense paid an unbelievable amount of money for this psychiatrist's testimony.
If anybody can access it would you mind c/p a little bit, please? Thanks.

 

[missy1974]

There you go
April 8, 2021, 3:36 p.m. ET6 hours ago
6 hours ago
John Eligon

Reporting from Kansas City
Dr. Daniel Isenschmid testified that the amount of methamphetamine found in George Floyd was consistent with a dose of prescription meth. He called it a low amount. The defense has argued that Floyd died in part of a drug overdose.

George Floyd Showed Signs of Brain Injury 4 Minutes Before Officer Relented, Expert Says

this is meth... can you link to anything that says that the amount of fentanyl was a 'therapeutic level'?

 

[musicaljoke]

Ok, quick question since it's being discussed... and I know there has to be someone here that has an opinion...

This nodding off thing... it has been said that the woman in the car with GF has said that he was indeed nodding off and the reason they didn't drive away.
So in what circumstance would he be nodding off... be more alert once the police are there (may be showing signs, but I don't think he was nodding off)... but then die of an overdose? IF he was already overdosing in the car before LE arrived... he's not just going to snap out of that, right? or is it possible, he took something, it was wearing off.. and then when he saw LE, threw pills in his mouth and was alert for a period of time before hitting that OD level? **** Not saying this happened, just trying to understand how he could go from nodding off... more than alert... to dying of an overdose

Hope that makes sense! I just don't know enough about drug overdoses to understand this. I don't even understand how he went from nodding off in the car to what we saw.

About the pills, in addition to those with pharmaceutical markings ...

The final witness of the day, Susan Neigh, told jurors that she performed tests on three pills to determine how much methamphetamine or fentanyl each tablet contained.

Neigh said that one of the pills recovered "seemed to have a rougher surface consistency compared to the other two that were smoother."

The analysis showed that all of the pills contained a concentration of fentanyl less than 1%. The methamphetamine purity of the tablets ranged from 1.9% to 2.9%.

Prosecutors then asked about the levels of methamphetamine, and how that compares to street or recreational versions of the drug.

In her experience, she said, "That is low."

"A majority of the time I see 90 to 100% of methamphetamine."

Pills Gathered From George Floyd Scene Contained Traces Of Methamphetamine, Fentanyl

 

[kittythehare]

this is meth... can you link to anything that says that the amount of fentanyl was a 'therapeutic level'?

It was already presented in the course of the testimonies today in the form of charts.
I also linked in Huff Po U Tube video above.

 

[missy1974]

Am geoblocked from reading this link
Ny Daily News apparently has an article on Dr Michael Welner..
I can't even link it actually
Headline is that defense paid an unbelievable amount of money for this psychiatrist's testimony.
If anybody can access it would you mind c/p a little bit, please? Thanks.

the story that comes up is from 2017 and irrelevant to this case IMO the headline says Manhattan DA's office paid unbelieveable amount...

I know at least one witness today was paid to be there for the State. I don't like to base my opinion on whether a witness was paid because they are an expert, but that's JMO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

About the pills, in addition to those with pharmaceutical markings ...

The final witness of the day, Susan Neigh, told jurors that she performed tests on three pills to determine how much methamphetamine or fentanyl each tablet contained.

Neigh said that one of the pills recovered "seemed to have a rougher surface consistency compared to the other two that were smoother."

The analysis showed that all of the pills contained a concentration of fentanyl less than 1%. The methamphetamine purity of the tablets ranged from 1.9% to 2.9%.

Prosecutors then asked about the levels of methamphetamine, and how that compares to street or recreational versions of the drug.

In her experience, she said, "That is low."

"A majority of the time I see 90 to 100% of methamphetamine."

Pills Gathered From George Floyd Scene Contained Traces Of Methamphetamine, Fentanyl

Do we know that all of the drugs that GF ingested came from the same manufacture? Perhaps he obtained them from multiple illegal sources. JMO

 

[mom2chloe]

About the pills, in addition to those with pharmaceutical markings ...

The final witness of the day, Susan Neigh, told jurors that she performed tests on three pills to determine how much methamphetamine or fentanyl each tablet contained.

Neigh said that one of the pills recovered "seemed to have a rougher surface consistency compared to the other two that were smoother."

The analysis showed that all of the pills contained a concentration of fentanyl less than 1%. The methamphetamine purity of the tablets ranged from 1.9% to 2.9%.

Prosecutors then asked about the levels of methamphetamine, and how that compares to street or recreational versions of the drug.

In her experience, she said, "That is low."

"A majority of the time I see 90 to 100% of methamphetamine."

Pills Gathered From George Floyd Scene Contained Traces Of Methamphetamine, Fentanyl

Thanks for this. So the drugs GF ingested, swallowed or “hooped” were of extremely low quality in all the experts testimony. IMO Again I want to know what other drugs were tested for from the samples they obtained. Did GF’s friend give or sell him drugs tainted with God knows what? IMO

 

[kittythehare]

the story that comes up is from 2017 and irrelevant to this case IMO the headline says Manhattan DA's office paid unbelieveable amount...

I know at least one witness today was paid to be there for the State. I don't like to base my opinion on whether a witness was paid because they are an expert, but that's JMO

I was not making a judgement on it only describing it's existence.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

the story that comes up is from 2017 and irrelevant to this case IMO the headline says Manhattan DA's office paid unbelieveable amount...

I know at least one witness today was paid to be there for the State. I don't like to base my opinion on whether a witness was paid because they are an expert, but that's JMO

Actually I feel that Dr Tobin not asking for money in this case when he gets $500 an hour in other cases to mean he has personal feelings driving his testimony. JMO

 

[mom2chloe]

Do we know that all of the drugs that GF invested came from the same manufacture? Perhaps he obtained them from multiple illegal sources. JMO

This leads me to question what the findings of the residue in the pipe they found were. Crack? Meth? Weed? A combination or a deadly designer drug of some sort possibly? IMO

Actually I feel that Dr Tobin not asking for money in this case when he gets $500 an hour in other cases to mean he has personal feelings driving his testimony. JMO

I agree. It would be nice if all experts testified without financial compensation but we know that’s not necessarily how it works. The fact that he testified for zero financial gain might lead some to believe he has a vested interest in this case for whatever reason. IMO
Likely they will bring in more experts paid to present alternatives. IMO

 

[MsBetsy]

this is meth... can you link to anything that says that the amount of fentanyl was a 'therapeutic level'?

I'm not sure there is an article that states it was a "therapeutic" level. There are many levels so we would have to know the specific dose to compare it to what was found in Floyd's system.

Today the toxicologist said that it was common for intoxicated driving suspects who used fentanyl to have higher levels in their system than Floyd did. He said the level of norfentanyl in his system was not consistent with a typical fentanyl overdose.

He said that last year, in cases where NMS labs tested blood from a person who had taken fentanyl, the average amount was 16.8 nanograms per milliliter, about 50% higher than what was found in Floyd's blood.

Since Floyd was a chronic user, I would imagine he initially was prescribed the starting dose for percocet. What his tolerance was at the time of his death we don't know. Imo

 

[kittythehare]

Actually I feel that Dr Tobin not asking for money in this case when he gets $500 an hour in other cases to mean he has personal feelings driving his testimony. JMO

Well if he has he backed them up with substantial facts such as this one
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1380213979394494467?s=20

 

[SouthAussie]

Am geoblocked from reading this link
Ny Daily News apparently has an article on Dr Michael Welner..
I can't even link it actually
Headline is that defense paid an unbelievable amount of money for this psychiatrist's testimony.
If anybody can access it would you mind c/p a little bit, please? Thanks.

I was not making a judgement on it only describing it's existence.

It says that the Manhattan DA's office paid $536,940 for his work as an expert witness in the two trials of Etan Patz's killer.
Also says that Dr. Michael Welner is "a controversial figure in his field who has gained notoriety for his work on trying to measure evil" by assessing the state of mind of Pedro Hernandez who killed Etan Paz.

Dr Welner said that he is worth every penny. He was paid this amount over a 5 year period.

Manhattan DA's office paid unbelievable amount to psychiatrist who assessed convicted Etan Patz killer

 

[MadMcGoo]

Do we know, or have thoughts on, whether or not DC will take the stand?

 

[kittythehare]

It says that the Manhattan DA's office paid $536,940 for his work as an expert witness in the two trials of Etan Patz's killer.
Also says that Dr. Michael Welner is "a controversial figure in his field who has gained notoriety for his work on trying to measure evil" by assessing the state of mind of Pedro Hernandez who killed Etan Paz.

Dr Welner said that he is worth every penny. He was paid this amount over a 5 year period.

Manhattan DA's office paid unbelievable amount to psychiatrist who assessed convicted Etan Patz killer

Thank you.
He's not appearing as a defense expert in this case tho', is he?

 

[kittythehare]

Do we know, or have thoughts on, whether or not DC will take the stand?

It's looking like he might have to, his lawyer is obsessed with Fentanyl and repetition...

 

[CrimeAway]

There you go
April 8, 2021, 3:36 p.m. ET6 hours ago
6 hours ago
John Eligon

Reporting from Kansas City
Dr. Daniel Isenschmid testified that the amount of methamphetamine found in George Floyd was consistent with a dose of prescription meth. He called it a low amount. The defense has argued that Floyd died in part of a drug overdose.

George Floyd Showed Signs of Brain Injury 4 Minutes Before Officer Relented, Expert Says

We were discussing FENTANYL levels. Methamphetamine is a completely different drug.