George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 2

[CrimeAway]

DBM

 

[Algo214]

I don't think Mr. Hall is a key participant in any way, shape or form given the fact that multiple doctors and other related professions witnesses have testified it was not the drugs that killed him, so him being the dealer is of little relevance.

Although if Nelson is gonna keep drilling that, and he should, he has to be put on the stand but from there, he can plead the fifth, be given immunity or what have you.
Or am I missing something like, it would be a mistrial because the Defense failed to call a witness that was key to their theory of the case to the stand?

 

[Simply Southern]

If he doesn't testify I wonder if that will lead to a mistrial.

What is a mistrial?


What is a mistrial?

Interesting. I was unaware a witness refusal to testify could result in a mistrial.

 

[kittythehare]

Yes, some may have dissolved in his mouth, but I think he had taken most of the fentanyl earlier. For all we know it could have been from the day before. I don't think there is any way to know for sure. The ER doctor testified that he saw no signs of overdose.

Did Dr. Baker say he did not test the stomach contents? I would think they would for a homicide case, just to rule out other possibilities.

Anyway, now that he has confirmed an overdose was not the cause of death, along with the other expert testimony, I think the defense will have a hard time convincing the jury that the COD was an overdose and the officer's actions did not play a significant role.

True but his gastric contents could have contained occult blood or even fresh blood.. the entire stomach should have been sent to laboratory IMO, even if appeared normal to the naked eye.. there is no way to see many substances or pathologies other than under a microscope or a chemical ad or biological analysis.
The victim is entitled to that.
Did the vitreous go to a lab?

 

[turaj]

Interesting. I was unaware a witness refusal to testify could result in a mistrial.

I think he can just come in and plead the 5th but Judge Cahill will not quash the subpoena. He needs to come in and plead in person.

 

[kittythehare]

I thought that I had read that neither Autopsy 2 or 3 had access to the actual body, but maybe I'm remembering incorrectly? Clearly my brain and fingers aren't 100% in gear today...

I remember the outrage when the first autopsy report was released.
I remember the second autopsy being different and the net result of the differences fired up the protests at the time..
BUT, was it a thing that the ME spoke out of time when he added the possible tox results without having received them?
I'm not sure.

 

[CrimeAway]

Yes, some may have dissolved in his mouth, but I think he had taken most of the fentanyl earlier. For all we know it could have been from the day before. I don't think there is any way to know for sure. The ER doctor testified that he saw no signs of overdose.

Did Dr. Baker say he did not test the stomach contents? I would think they would for a homicide case, just to rule out other possibilities.

Anyway, now that he has confirmed an overdose was not the cause of death, along with the other expert testimony, I think the defense will have a hard time convincing the jury that the COD was an overdose and the officer's actions did not play a significant role.

I think that the presence of 5.6 ng/ml norfentanyl supports the fact that most of the fentanyl was taken earlier. However, I think that one of the toxicologists did state (Isenschmid), that it is possible additional fentanyl could have been taken later.

At 43:00

 

[dixiegirl1035]

It will be disturbing from a judiciary standpoint if Morries Hall is not brought to court. He plays an important role and needs to appear.

And would that reason also apply for the other 3 officers who play an important role and are not testifying to the exact same reason? That they would be pleading the fifth.

 

[sds71]

Judge Cahill changed his decision to remove Freeman and others from the case.

The Court’s oral order of September 11, 2020, removing the above-named attorneys from these cases is hereby VACATED:

https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgo...46/27-CR-20-12646_Order-Granting-Motion-2.pdf

 

[CrimeAway]

I think I know who wrote the note while meeting with Dr. Baker now. It was mentioned in his testimony yesterday too, he was asked if he met with prosecutors in the case where notes were taken or something like that.

He and others were removed because they met with the ME without a non-attorney present, which was in violation of Minnesota state law and it now leaves an opportunity for them to be called as witnesses. There may be other reasons, but this one seems to be the m
ajority of the reason. JMO

Here's the portion of Dr Baker's testimony where Eric Nelson questioned him about meetings etc. prior to trial (39:30)

One of the documents that we discussed:

https://static.fox9.com/www.fox9.com/content/uploads/2020/08/Exhibit-4.pdf

 

[MsBetsy]

I thought that I had read that neither Autopsy 2 or 3 had access to the actual body, but maybe I'm remembering incorrectly? Clearly my brain and fingers aren't 100% in gear today...

There was a third autopsy?

 

[CrimeAway]

There
was a third autopsy?

I'm off to search for sources....

I think I was confused because the family Autopsy was performed by 2 doctors:

https://static.fox9.com/www.fox9.com/content/uploads/2020/08/Exhibit-4.pdf

 

[SouthAussie]

This link not great
Things To Know - Autopsy 101 | Post Mortem | FRONTLINE | PBS

Did the second autopsy send gastric contents to the laboratory does anybody know?
Surely both did not fail the victim?
Is it possible?

The gastric contents were retained.

ADDITIONAL PROCEDURES:
Postmortem specimens collected and retained: vitreous fluid, femoral blood, urine, liver, and gastric contents.

Autopsy Report for George Floyd

 

[SouthAussie]

There was a third autopsy?

Two were conducted by George's family. I read about it earlier and posted the link here somewhere. I will have a look for it among my posts.

ETA: No ... one autopsy, two examiners ... see post #739 below.

 

[BUF]

Judge Cahill changed his decision to remove Freeman and others from the case.

The Court’s oral order of September 11, 2020, removing the above-named attorneys from these cases is hereby VACATED:

https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgo...46/27-CR-20-12646_Order-Granting-Motion-2.pdf

Thanks @sds71

So they could be called to impeach Bakers’s testimony?

 

[missy1974]

I am trying to go through testimony from the past week while I have time off and on today...
I missed this in Toobin's testimony... after taking fentanyl, the peak respiratory depression is at about 5 minutes, it will continue after that, but the peak is 5min. GF was in the back of the squad car around 8:18/20:18.

about the 34:00 mark

 

[MsBetsy]

True but his gastric contents could have contained occult blood or even fresh blood.. the entire stomach should have been sent to laboratory IMO, even if appeared normal to the naked eye.. there is no way to see many substances or pathologies other than under a microscope or a chemical ad or biological analysis.
The victim is entitled to that.
Did the vitreous go to a lab?

Yes, I don't understand why he didn't test the stomach contents. All it says in the autopsy report was that the stomach contained a dark liquid with numerous gray-white food particles that looked like bread.

ETA He apparently did take samples so now I'm wondering why it wasn't tested.

 

[missy1974]

The gastric contents were retained.

ADDITIONAL PROCEDURES:
Postmortem specimens collected and retained: vitreous fluid, femoral blood, urine, liver, and gastric contents.

Autopsy Report for George Floyd

That's interesting! I think that is what I read but couldn't find it today! But it still makes me wonder why no one tested it yet.... maybe they did.

 

[SouthAussie]

Oh maybe not. I read it wrong. Two independent specialists were hired by George's family to conduct one autopsy. Not two autopsies ... two specialists.


Floyd’s family commissioned two independent examiners to conduct a separate autopsy, according to the family’s attorneys. Their findings concluded that Floyd died from asphyxiation from sustained pressure.

Drugs, heart disease contributed to, but didn't cause, George Floyd's death, medical examiner testifies

 

[CrimeAway]

Exhibit discussing autopsies:

https://www.google.com/url?q=https:...FjAHegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw2Dw6_zFAVSeKxMK5AxZPmO