George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 2

[dixiegirl1035]

Are you referring to the part about the prosecution's monopoly over granting use immunity?

It says, "if the prosecution refuses to grant immunity, the court will invoke a categorical rule against benefitting from a witness assertion of priviledge."

"Thus, the court will prevent Defendant from calling witness before the jury."

It's on page 3, after they mention the three impediments that block the defendant from obtaining evidence from the witness.

I just started to glaze over it as I'm too tired right now to understand it. I can't even give input as it was not making sense, but I felt there was something in it that I wasn't understanding so that's why I was asking if others saw anything. It just hit me that some of it sounded like what might be going on so was looking for fresher eyes than mine.

Thanks for taking a look at it.

Perhaps if others think it has something I'll take another stab in the am.

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

When the man said, "I can't breathe.". He should have been moved to another position. There were FOUR armed, LEO there. Was GF such a threat, that he couldn't have been put in another position?

He was cuffed. Was there a safety issue to the public, the officers, GF? Once GF was in custody, under control of the officers, they were responsible for at least ensuring that he could breathe.

Ironically he was, as it’s now common knowledge he was having difficulty breathing before being placed on the ground outside of the LEO vehicle he was sitting, and should have been delivered in.

 

[kittythehare]

RSBM

Your first paragraph... now you sound like Nelson

It was the charging documents that were released to the public when they charged Chauvin that created the outcry.

View attachment 292240

Preliminary finding no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation.
DocumentCloud

IIRC he got the toxicology report back before the autopsy report was complete. I believe he said he got them the morning he completed the autopsy report.

Hope that helps!

ETA: I think it was that meeting about the preliminary autopsy results that may have lead the first prosecutors no longer working on the case, or at least not directly.

I'm even thinking like Nelson , which bothers me no end! I need help.

He did get tox report before he signed off fully on autopsy report

BUT weren't his preliminary findings released too early? I should know because I was all over it at the time... but I'm so stupid with tiredness right now that I have trouble spelling my own name. I'll stop soon, I promise.

 

[missy1974]

I'm even thinking like Nelson , which bothers me no end! I need help.

He did get tox report before he signed off fully on autopsy report

BUT weren't his preliminary findings released too early? I should know because I was all over it at the time... but I'm so stupid with tiredness right now that I have trouble spelling my own name. I'll stop soon, I promise.

BBM

I am going to try to give my opinion but going to try to tip toe a bit, I don't want to break the rules.

The preliminary findings were released when they arrested the officers. I'm going to assume that it was a matter of public record, and could not NOT be released.

I also think that by the 29th of May last year when that was released, there were already protests/riots going on. I think the release of the preliminary opinon added fuel to that already started fire. I don't know if that bigger fire had any sort of impact on final results, I don't know if we will ever know.

All JMO

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Saturday Night Live First skit tonight was on the trial. Good night all

 

[MsBetsy]

RSBM

Your first paragraph... now you sound like Nelson

It was the charging documents that were released to the public when they charged Chauvin that created the outcry.

View attachment 292240

Preliminary finding no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation.
DocumentCloud

IIRC he got the toxicology report back before the autopsy report was complete. I believe he said he got them the morning he completed the autopsy report.

Hope that helps!

ETA: I think it was that meeting about the preliminary autopsy results that may have lead the first prosecutors no longer working on the case, or at least not directly.

Yes, it was misleading because they made it sound like he "ruled out" asphyxiation specifically because there were no physical signs, and they focused more on his health conditions and "intoxicants" rather than on the method of police restraints.

I think that is what enraged the family and the protestors even more. Initially they began protesting and rioting after seeing the video, and because all of the officers had not been charged.

Imo

 

[Gibbo214]

Ironically he was, as it’s now common knowledge he was having difficulty breathing before being placed on the ground outside of the LEO vehicle he was sitting, and should have been delivered in.

And maybe he couldn't breathe then. That was a good reason why he should not have been placed in a position where it was even more difficult to breathe, IMO.

 

[kittythehare]

Saturday Night Live First skit tonight was on the trial. Good night all

Are you serious?
Oh MY!

 

[Gibbo214]

Are you serious?
Oh MY!

‘SNL’ Cold Open Satirizes Black Vs. White Perceptions Of Chauvin Trial – Deadline

 

[MsBetsy]

I just started to glaze over it as I'm too tired right now to understand it. I can't even give input as it was not making sense, but I felt there was something in it that I wasn't understanding so that's why I was asking if others saw anything. It just hit me that some of it sounded like what might be going on so was looking for fresher eyes than mine.

Thanks for taking a look at it.

Perhaps if others think it has something I'll take another stab in the am.

Well, it could explain why the prosecution would not grant him immunity. We know why he and his attorney don't want him to testify and why the defense wants to question him. He's also a valuable witness to the prosecution.

I guess it depends on whether or not everyone agrees on the questions Nelson wants to ask. I really don't understand all of it either. I'm assuming it's not good for the jury to keep hearing a witness plead the fifth to every question.

 

[mickey2942]

‘SNL’ Cold Open Satirizes Black Vs. White Perceptions Of Chauvin Trial – Deadline

There is so much that could be said about this. But why go to that level.

 

[kittythehare]

And maybe he couldn't breathe then. That was a good reason why he should not have been placed in a position where it was even more difficult to breathe, IMO.

It's also a good reason for why he couldn't stay in the back seat of the police car, the space was extremely narrow.
When an arrested person states they cannot breathe, LE should take it seriously, whether they believe it or not. I'm constantly reminded of Eric Garner and that case broke my heart in a million shards.

 

[Gibbo214]

Well, it could explain why the prosecution would not grant him immunity. We know why he and his attorney don't want him to testify and why the defense wants to question him. He's also a valuable witness to the prosecution.

I guess it depends on whether or not everyone agrees on the questions Nelson wants to ask. I really don't understand all of it either. I'm assuming it's not good for the jury to keep hearing a witness plead the fifth to every question.

I dont quite understand this. Shouldn't it be if LE think that he has committed a crime, he should be charged with a crime?

 

[missy1974]

And maybe he couldn't breathe then. That was a good reason why he should not have been placed in a position where it was even more difficult to breathe, IMO.

I don't disagree with you knowing the outcome now.

But if those same LE officers have had experiences in the past where others have said that and were lying, and if they are actually trained that 'if they can talk, they can breath', then what? I don't think it's as simple as it looks with the benefit of hindsight. JMO

 

[kittythehare]

I don't disagree with you knowing the outcome now.

But if those same LE officers have had experiences in the past where others have said that and were lying, and if they are actually trained that 'if they can talk, they can breath', then what? I don't think it's as simple as it looks with the benefit of hindsight. JMO

Again, as @mickey2942 says, there were enough of them and he was handcuffed and they were armed.
A positional change or the drink of water he requested would have reinflated his lungs and he would have survived, most likely IMO

 

[MadMcGoo]

Have you reviewed the 3 charges. Not one of the requires intent. MOO

Repost below from media thread on charges MN - George Floyd, 46, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 **Media & Timeline - NO DISCUSSION

I have reviewed them and thought I understood them pretty well. I guess not. I’ll succeed.

 

[MsBetsy]

I dont quite understand this. Shouldn't it be if LE think that he has committed a crime, he should be charged with a crime?

I don't know how it works, either. Try reading those first three pages of the document and see what you think. The prosecution seems to have an advantage if they do not grant him immunity in that example but I don't know if it applies to this case.

 

[Gibbo214]

I don't disagree with you knowing the outcome now.

But if those same LE officers have had experiences in the past where others have said that and were lying, and if they are actually trained that 'if they can talk, they can breath', then what? I don't think it's as simple as it looks with the benefit of hindsight. JMO

Where they trained that 'if they can talk, they can breathe'. I wonder if a medical professional taught them that.
People with life threatening asthma attacks come into emergency rooms saying 'I can't breathe'. They can give their names and what medications they are on. It would be terrible if they were told 'If you can speak, you can breathe, you must be lying'. I am sure everyone would agree that that would be monstrous.

 

[missy1974]

Again, as @mickey2942 says, there were enough of them and he was handcuffed and they were armed.
A positional change or the drink of water he requested would have reinflated his lungs and he would have survived, most likely IMO

I understand what you are saying, and again, I don't necessarily disagree.

But, looking at it through their eyes and their perspective, he was saying he couldn't breath before he was in that position on the ground.

So if he already couldn't breath before he was on the ground, why do you think that was? (was he in a panic? anxiety? the drugs? adrenaline? )

Or was he lying about not being able to breath at that point.... but then telling the truth when he actually couldn't breath when he was on the ground?

 

[Gibbo214]

I don't disagree with you knowing the outcome now.

But if those same LE officers have had experiences in the past where others have said that and were lying, and if they are actually trained that 'if they can talk, they can breath', then what? I don't think it's as simple as it looks with the benefit of hindsight. JMO

You know, nurses and doctors in emergency rooms have had experience with people lying about stuff too, but it would be montrous if a person presented with an asthma attack and said, 'I cant breathe' but gave their name and what medications they were on, and the nurse said, 'If you can speak you can breathe, you must be lying'.