George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #2

[Karmady]

It's from recorded phone calls GZ made to his wife from jail. He was discussing amounts of money donated for his defense that he did not reveal to the court when it was determining bail.

Okay, thanks. I did know about the calls.

 

[csziggy]

Mother Jones has a collection of the older documents (not current court documents) at http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/03/what-happened-trayvon-martin-explained?page=2

Their main page for Trayvon Martin / George Zimmerman information and links is at http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/03/what-happened-trayvon-martin-explained?page=1

Among the documents at the upper link is a collection of burglary reports for Retreat View Circle, the longest street in the Twin Lakes subdivision: http://www.motherjones.com/documents/329597-sanford-burglary-reports

The stats I pulled from those reports -
8 reported burglaries (two clumped together for two neighboring houses under construction)
6 arrests in 3 different cases - 2 black males in two separate burglaries, a group that included three black males and one white male involved in another
4 cases where perpetrators were unknown, no witnesses
1 case where a black male friend of son was considered suspect, no indication in the report of an arrest

Frank Taafe's claim that the suspects in all of the burglaries were black males is incorrect. Not all the arrested suspects were black, there was at least one white suspect. Most of the burglaries not solved were by unknown persons with no descriptions.

To claim on the basis of the known that all the unknown suspects are black is racial profiling. For all anyone knows all the unsolved burglaries could have been committed by white perps who were not caught because of erroneous profiling.

JMO, of course.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Another new shift to his story and a good point as to why zimmermans claim about screaming is iffy at best.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/orlando-...an-claim-that-trayvon-martin-circled-his-suv/

Um, It says his story stayed the same.. It says that authorities don't believe it but he has always said the same thing.

They will need to prove it is not true. Right now they have not.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I personally don't think that GZ cared at all that TM was black. I think for him it was just someone who was lurking and did not seem to belong.. That with the robberies, made him call Police and watch him.

 

[iluvmua]

I'm really glad this thread is not like the older ones, we got shut down so fast.

People were arguing left and right (including me).

 

[thefragile7393]

Come on...

Of course his injuries prove something. It proves that he was beaten by TM. I understand people not liking GZ but to overlook real evidence is what I meant when I said it was more emotional for people on the side of GZ is guilty.

There is evidence that he was beaten. That can not be ignored.

They got in a fight. He wasn't beaten. Z's injuries are not consistent with what he claims happened. Dude didn't even get checked out at a hospital. There was no beating.
Why is it hard to believe that TM was afraid for his own life? The problem is that we will never really know what happened because there are too many inconsistencies with his story. He had no weapon, its a dark rainy night, and here is a guy who appears to be trying to start stuff who definitely isn't a cop. Did he try to run at first? What was actually said? Some kids are full of bravado and immaturity and figure if they feel someome is starting something with them they had better end it. Even with all of that happening as possibilities only, the story Z told still does not add up at all.

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[Schuby]

I'm really glad this thread is not like the older ones, we got shut down so fast.

People were arguing left and right (including me).

Honestly I think this is the most civilized thread I've ever seen on Websleuths, lol.

 

[Jhpuffy]

The only time I hear him being cautious about his address is when he was not sure where TM was and did not know if he was listening. That to me is normal. If you think someone is following you, you don't drive straight home and bring them with you.

All the calls I hear so far is him reporting correctly. Loitering is a crime. Even in public places where it is posted.

and then you say

I disagree, I don't think he was scaring TM. I think that TM got in his face as GZ said. IF TM wanted to avoid GZ all he had to do was keep walking. GZ would most likely not have found him and he would have been on his way.

I think that because of the call and the length of it and how long it takes for the incident to take place, That TM was indeed hanging out, Hiding somewhere watching GZ and came after him. It makes the most sense.

BBM

Why is it okay for GZ to want to avoid someone he doesn't know following him home but not okay for TM to want to avoid someone he doesn't know following him home? Why the double standard?

 

[thefragile7393]

Is this a break or the longest side bar ever?

Some of these seem to rival JA's sidebars lol

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[iluvmua]

They got in a fight. He wasn't beaten. Z's injuries are not consistent with what he claims happened. Dude didn't even get checked out at a hospital. There was no beating.
Why is it hard to believe that TM was afraid for his own life? The problem is that we will never really know what happened because there are too many inconsistencies with his story. He had no weapon, its a dark rainy night, and here is a guy who appears to be trying to start stuff who definitely isn't a cop. Did he try to run at first? What was actually said? Some kids are full of bravado and immaturity and figure if they feel someome is starting something with them they had better end it. Even with all of that happening as possibilities only, the story Z told still does not add up at all.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2o

all the evidence suggests what zimmerman has been saying all along is true.

his story has been consistant since day 1.

He does not have to be near at the brink of death before he can use his gun.

did you hear about the soccer ref who was killed with one punch by a 17 year old? That could have happened to zimmerman if he had not stopped his threat.

 

[Schuby]

and then you say




BBM

Why is it okay for GZ to want to avoid someone he doesn't know following him home but not okay for TM to want to avoid someone he doesn't know following him home? Why the double standard?

That's the problem. It doesn't appear Trayvon wanted to avoid GZ. It appears he wanted to confront him.

 

[raine1212]

Honestly I think this is the most civilized thread I've ever seen on Websleuths, lol.

Thank You.. Let's keep it that way

 

[cityslick]

and then you say




BBM

Why is it okay for GZ to want to avoid someone he doesn't know following him home but not okay for TM to want to avoid someone he doesn't know following him home? Why the double standard?

Where is the proof that TM was avoiding anyone? There is a lot of assumption being made (on both sides) of TM's actions and what his intentions were.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

and then you say




BBM

Why is it okay for GZ to want to avoid someone he doesn't know following him home but not okay for TM to want to avoid someone he doesn't know following him home? Why the double standard?

IT is not a double standard it was two different things.

If TM was just walking home as people said, Then by the time of the event he would have been home already. The fact that he was there many minutes later and confronted GZ means he was indeed waiting around for him.



GZ was in his neighborhood. He was not chasing him by WALKING trying to get a location of him for police..

Maybe not the best choice, But still not a crime that goes to murder.

 

[gxm]

and then you say




BBM

Why is it okay for GZ to want to avoid someone he doesn't know following him home but not okay for TM to want to avoid someone he doesn't know following him home? Why the double standard?

For me there is no double standard. I agree that it could have been TM or GZ who started the fight. But I also think that this is something that will never be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. And, given that, I don't see how GZ can be convicted of murder. At least, as of yet, I have not seen clear evidence that GZ was not the victim of a physical attack and/or that he intended to kill TM when he got out of his car.

 

[katiecoolady]

Wrote a blog last night about George Zimmerman's key expert in this case Vincent Di Maio and how he flipped for the State in our case:

http://twoinnocents.wordpress.com/2013/06/25/flipped/

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The prosecutor is reaching now.. Come on...

Walking home in the rain....

You have to add it all together...

 

[Words2Serve]

I need to know more, however, my PERSONAL opinion at this point is that I have not been convinced GZ 'murdered' TM, and I have not been convinced that GZ self-defense 'warranted' shooting TM.

I would have to sway towards manslaughter.

Personally, I see gun use as a privilege that comes with responsibility, and I feel even if you are being assaulted shooting someone should be the last resort; there are many ways to defend yourself. I would have to wonder as a juror why he did not introduce himself, try kicking, punching, biting, screaming, etc; was there anything he tried to do to diffuse the situation before using his weapon? To my knowledge at this point there is no other evidence of a struggle on TM, other than gunshot. What evidence or testimony will convince me that shooting someone in the chest was his only way out.

Many say that what happened before the confrontation does not matter; I feel it does if those actions resulted in the consequences, and GZ is an adult and knows that he was putting himself in a potentially confrontational situation by following TM, whether he was doing it on his own, or because he felt the non-emergency guy was guiding him too.

If you leave your car doors unlocked and your stereo gets stolen, the insurance will not pay, because they will tell you, it was your negligence that played a role. Doesn't mean you deserved to have your radio stolen, but you are held accountable to a degree.

Using a gun should always be the last alternative, and maybe GZ truly had no other choice, but as of yet, I am not convinced, but like I said, not convinced he 'murdered' TM either, so manslaughter for me.

Thank you for letting me share my thoughts

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

To me this witness helped the defense.

 

[iluvmua]

Dee Dee is going to testify today. This is going to be VERY interesting since she lied under oath and she was not 16 like Crump said she was but 18 when this whent down and she's now 19.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-bernie-de-la-rionda