*graphic and adult content* Jodi Arias Trial media/ timeline thread **no discussion**

  • #1,081
When JA was a teenager she and her Mother argued all the time and JA hit Sandy (?) for no reason . . . .yes but it was before and it is not relevant. . ..

JM is reading from the DSM-4 . . . . says B is not present before the trauma but is present after . . ..

the altercation . . . .may we approach?
yes

JW is out of her seat like a ejection seat . . . ...(IMO)
 
  • #1,082
Wild About Trial
Juan continues to point out that #JodiArias was always mean to her mom Sandy back when she was a teen and no one knew why.
 
  • #1,083
In 2008 she was not a teenager . . . when JA moved back to Yreka she and Sandy got in a big fight - even though sandy was helping her move . . . right

they never got along . . . JA was always mean to Sandy for no reason . . ..

the same person who lied to police - filled out the pds and gave wrong information about the triggering event . . . .

these issues were present with her mother . . .
we discussed the issues @ length . . .. . that is only one of 3 criteria . . . . they were sitting down to eat dinner and JA kicked Sandy for no reason (objection - overruled - JA is frowning and angry!)

3 phone calls made after 6/4 and you will disregard april 2008 . . .. events .. . .

irritability and outbursts of anger you will

how many calls (3 calls)
there were several calls - pattern of anger became more intense according to what JA told me . . . . elevation of the intensity of her anger qualified her for that diagnosis . .

you are makin this diagnosis based upon your judgement . . .. . clinical judgement . . . these phone calls . . .

when one applies the techniques of criteria analysis you take every piece of evidence available . . . 35 years of experience - even some of this pre-dated the trauma her anger towards her mother became more intense after her incarceration . . .

nevertheless i made the clinical judgement call .and I stand behind my call.

numerous interviews there was an elevation of anger towards her mother after the event . . .
based upon her saying this?
correct
you didn't get corroboration from who she lives with
i couldn't she was in jail - prisoners

based upon 25-30 hrs interviews with JA . .
give me specifics
are you asking for one statement out of many
statement that JA had difficulty concentrating

increasing frequency and regularity - she met the criteria

she once told me she had difficulty reading . . .
did you know she said she read the Book of Mormon from front cover to back
I didn't hear - not privy to her testimony . .. that is wonderful . . . based upon my clinical judgement she met that criteria (pointer finger into the desk)

JM said you can bang all you want (slam)

she continued journaling . . .. isn't that against being able to concentrate
I don't think so . . .
give me another area thn

her ability to concentrating and relaxing . . . unable to keep a train of thought on the scenes (images) that would help her relax in her jail cell.

one example you gave us about reading she said she was able you are still willing to put your 35 years of experience on this yes

hypersensitive - hyperaware of your surroundings . . .. sensitive to . . .. someone is being paranoid (no) . . . .

doesn't meet the definition

hypervigilient . . . very sensitive to noise in prison, aware of people moving around . . . always a very sound sleeper - now unable to sleep . . .
thought you told us she didn't have problems sleeping?
no she was sound sleeper before jail but once @ jail had trouble sleeping.

do you remember when you said she had no trouble sleeping
I don't remember
let's play it and see what you told us
 
  • #1,084
Lissette Martinez ‏@martinezliss 22s

Jury went to paper as soon as JM mentioned #jodiarias contemplated suicide 3 times in her life prior to murder
 
  • #1,085
Exhibit #557 . . . (audio)

later interviews with her . . . . trouble sleeping

because of her hypervigilence she would be disturbed by the noise - the noise was troubling her sleep - in the past she could sleep through anything . . .
which is D1 - no trouble sleeping or falling asleep

her personal space needed to be left clear - when someone got too close to her she would feel invaded . . . the sounds or the brightness of the lights were brighter than they need to be
she meets the criteria for hypervigilence . . . . . lights seemed very bright to her . . . she didn't have difficulty falling or staying asleep . . .. that is what I said.

objection - overruled

you talked to us about the noise - made her be hypervigilent
not just @ night - during day as well . . . example of her being hypervigilent

she still had no difficulty falling or staying asleep
correct

exaggerated startle response - did not find that - NO

even though - in light of what we talked about - there has to be 2 of these . . .
based on your 35 yrs experience and having spoken with JA - still find section D has been met
yes

another section C requires 3 out of 7 but I found 5
all right

lets talk about C - (JW is whispering to JA . . . JA doesn't look happy)

#7 - a sense of forshortened future
feelings of suicde
she indicated since this happened and she was aware of what had gone on her plan was toeventually kill herself
not a new thing - thought of before
she may have before -but this became an overwhelming thought and plan for her - somehow she would take her life before going to court - doesn't mean she didn't think of it earlier in her life - this became dominant

I asked you whether it cannot be present before the trauma (he reads from DSM) not present before the trauma . . . she made statements willing to commitsuicide in high school - told MM she would commit suicide . . .

in journals whether it was no big deal or negative she was talking about suicide (juror question) fro teen years to MM - 3 different incidents she is talking about sucide . . . yes but reasons differ - yes but outcome remains same - she wants to commi suicide . . . those 3 or 4 don't matter only the ones after 6/08 . .

this became an obsessional plan for her to do away with self before trial . .. never on suicide watch no - she never had a plan . . . .only her word - no steps to do this

C6 - restricted range of affect - for example . .. . also called unable to have loving feelings (given as an example) . . . you found this one too .. . I did find that one

restricted range of affect - in her conversations with me - she did not show emotions to me (range) related to subject matter (ie: smile, laugh, giggle) in context . . .. did review conversations with detective - @ times she was seen giggle . . .situational determined in my conversation with her - specifics of the crime - her affect did not modulate the way I would expect someone to talk about the death of someone close - not followed thru with an emotional response we would normally see with other clients - . . .

a loved one who died or killer talking bout their killing?
doesn't matter - affect was blunted . . . . their affect/emotional states that a trained professional would determine is appropriate for the content

unredacted interview w/48 hrs with JA . . . she is smiling when talking about certain things with TA . . .before she admitted she killed TA . . .
she built up defense mechanism . . . she created an alternative universe . .. . it didn't exist - later when she admitted killing TA - she was blunted

so the lie is called an alternative universe?

because she was lying about it at that point - all this give and take with reporter is lying alternative universe

a psychological defense mechanism to deal with what really happened - almost like dissociative identity disorder . . . you didn't diagnose her with that . .. no I did not - I did not keep that diagnosis - I was usin it as an example - let's not talk ABOUT things that don't apply

you saw her giggle and laugh on 48 hrs . . . .but later on when she changed her mind and told the truth she did not have appropriate affect

blunted affect - she would giggle an laugh with her relatives . . .. i don't know how she interacted with her family
but you didn't interview her mother and was not present during altercations and you still talk about it and considered in your eval.

page 478 - I have highlighted it for you - she would laugh when she would call relatives . . . you read this before .yes . . . not a blunted affect . . . .giggle appropriately.

in light of everything we talked about you still find C6 factor . . . . blunted affect


#5 - feelings of detachment or estrangement from others
talking about she reported feeling state of unreality - not tuned in/detached from reality - looking @ reality as observer - foggy/unclear unable to clue in to going on around her

that is part of it -
It says "from other" . . . . what others she felt estranged from others
othersin the jail - fogginess

never been in jail before
true
have difficulty relating to others when first going to jail . . . . not a stretch to have feelings f detachment or estrangement from others
still meets criteria
based upon your experience

#? No I did not

#544 - C3 & c6 - initial typographical
you saying someone else's fault when this report came out?
no my fault - some of it was typed by myself, and some by someone else . . . . some sections I would type myself, some dictation software . . . someone else - I take responsilibyt of the content

inability to recall an important aspect of the trauma . . . . C-3 - the amnesia - the dissociative amnesia - the fog? no absense of memory , , ,

affect ability recall aspects of trauma
yes but memory and recall . . . ???

no scientific test to determine whether a person had amnesia
there probably are . . . . but not in this . . .
hook up to a machine?
there might be a way to scan and brain . . ..

experimental and not available to us @ the time practically speaking no
nothing else to look @ to tell us that she is being truthful . . . .we can look @ the journals but your expertse would have to be called in . . .

PTSD is like a crater -event was anxiety - meteor came in . . . people can go and look @ a crater - yes . .. . gaping indentation@ the earth - you can't look @ her brain to find indication like that to see evidence of event . . . . .

that is psychology . . . .

I can reply to all reasonable psychological probability . . . .
you don't know - right
I don't think that is what I am saying

crater . . .. look @ crater - pTSD . . . . look @ JA - there is no such crater there - to point @ and say there is the crater she has PTSD
psychology is not that type of science

left @ the mercy of her words
and the other ancillary materals
48 hrs, journals and text messages

can't point to crater
no difference between geology and psychology

Take Noon recess back @ 1:25
 
  • #1,086
=AnonymousD;9102265
Watch to the RH side around the 24 second mark. Mitigation Specialist appears to pass a paper to JA's mother.

That was rather sneaky..:jail:
 
  • #1,087
  • #1,088
Wilmot asks if laViolette experienced discrimination . . . people seeing her and others as prejudicide against . . .

she has worked with men and women . . .

since started taking cases for forensic reasons - court type cases . . . . . .16 - 18 for defense and 9 for the prosecution . . . she has turned down more than 1 case . . .

what are the reasons for turning down a case?
objection - relevance
approach
 
  • #1,089
When you turned down cases because you don't have enough time to dedicate to it . . . i didn't have enough time to do a good job on a case . . . .and not enough evidence to merit her participation in that case . . . .

have you testified before? yes about 18 times . . . .have you ever testified or worked on behalf of people representing a man . . . yes . . . i was sitting in court for 6 hrs ready to testify but I was never called . . . .he was accused of DV and I was able to get him into a perpet . . . objection

were you retained in that case .. . a family law case - non-criminal
and retained by women = yes

on this case first interviewed Sept 2011 or beginning of October 2011 . . . .she gets paid $250 an hour for research and $300 per hour for court appearance.

more about the articles you have written . . . did you ever write an article in a journal for child custody . . . continuum for aggression and abuse . . .a way to look @ DV and aggression that can occur in otherwise healthy families . . .. ranhysge of behaviors and what exacerbated . . . look @ how we intervene in these cases to do it more effectively.

Michael Johnson 1994 - one side anchored was common couple violence - hitting, slapping, minor injury . . .

tyranny system . . . . abuses the individual and the system (often a church) or power system . . .

we don't call it domestic violence but wanted to look @ a continuum . . .. research in 1990s took 10 pieces of research and put them together . . .. took similar behaviors in each of their groups . . . family only people don't do anything outside family - keep secret . . . borderline people who act out in public and then anti-social who have been arrested . . .

she is in an organization and meet monthly they talk to people who are doing the work in all over the country . . . she used that to put into her continuum . . . something she created.

it would help the jurors to understand to look @ this continuum

move to enter it in

objection - hearsay . . .
approach
 
  • #1,090
incidious behaviors . . . . subtle mind control . . .

victim of mind control - leave her feeling . . . shift of perception .. . start seeing differently - maybe I missed it or misperceiving it . . . i didn't get what you meant - doubt way you look @ things . ..
well thought out threat to kill . . .. .someone who is battering may threaten to kill you or hurt you or suicide . . . .. battering is less thought out . . . i am telling you i will kill self, hurt you or someone you love. . . well thought out - they tell you how they are going to do it

if you are with someone you love it is terrorizing if they say they want to kill self - so worried that could happen . . . .. often parents of teens - who believe it could happen even if they haven't tried to . . .. focus shifts to person who is suicidal or homicidal . . .

in dv cases focus is on the perpetrator from family and everyone . . . . .squeaky wheel

torturing pets . . . haven't seen it that much - people who do things to animals don't tend to talk about it . . .. very handsome charismatic guy came into group one night and said he kicked his puppy to death .. . very hard to talk about hurting children or anything considered strange . . . hard to talk about it in group . . . an intake session . . . . or private session

not going to tell you until I know you . . . .

extreme isolation - allows someone to do mind control - take a lot of forms - not just you don't get to see someone you care about . . . .. people don't talk to others about what is going on in their life - they want people to like their partner - they don't want people to know they have lousy taste . . . telling people what they can write . . .dismantle car or take keys away . . . lots ways to isolate people

not necessary to be extreme situation to isolate people - mostly because they stop talking to anyone else so ability to become

so reality of person you are with their reality of what they tell you . . . . no mirror

2 women who were thin both thought theywere ugly an unattractive because they had been told that over and over.

she chose to isolate self? . . . . not really her choice.
I don't think victim of DV feel they have a choice - choices get narrowed . . .. .

people are very concerned about reputation of their partner . . . . they are worried about a reputation . . . .a woman on a hotline married to a minister . . . nobody will believe me and i can't ruin his reputation . . police officers, people in the military . . . . person they are with will have a marred reputation. ...leaves victim feeling like she has no one to talk to

balance of power in relationship starts to disappear in abuse . . . . balance is we like each other, we value each other, we work together - or figure a way to do that if we re unsure . . . .

when person has a whole lot of power - person giving up looses because they give up all power . . . i don't think it is conscious . . . .. emotional reflex . . . survival . . .

generally more regular physical abuse. . . . you can have a terrorist who never lays a hand on anyone . . . .murder case in late 90's woman was very financially successful . . . .she went to family and began asking for money - partner wouldn't go to the doctor when she was pregnant and having contractions . . . he kicked side of car in . . .. chased a guy on a bike and beat him . . .. she moved into her parents who were in their 70's . . .he began to call CPS on her . . . never substantiated . . . .numerous threats on the home . . . .

the social worker told them this was abusive behavior . . . stalking, threatening - leaving messages - I am going to be your worst nightmare . . .

her father had been a POW in WW2 . . . . developed PTsd . . . wound up emptying his gun intothis man . . . he was in fugue when he did it . . . he walked down the street like he was sleep walking . . . he didn't know what he was doing . he was so terrified about what

terrorizing without physical abuse
 
  • #1,091
Exacerbating factors. . . . family of origin . .. multiple family members involved in family of origin . . .. level of violence that occurred. . . .

violence or neglect ups the ante . . . because you have in general less ability to handle things. . . . . if someone comes from English speaking family to speak fluent Spanish . . . if they come from violent family I don't expect them to come with fluent mental health . . . I tell people they are coming to school - never learned it before . .. . you react and don't think as much as react when come from family of origin with DV

has this person been involved in other abusive relations . .. . physical aggressive in relationship - punch and have multiple attacks . . . later on hit or slap . . . tends to be increase over time . . ..

I look @ the history of abuse that the perp. has done to other people . . . exacerbating factors are all looking @ perpetrator..

substance abuse


.......


I look @ first year .. . .after substances that person is perpetrator without an anesthetic . . . .

bipolar are they are on their medication or not . . . generally people who are long tern on psychotropic meds are not usually in a group as it is not effective for them in group.

Noon recess - until 1:25 . . .
 
  • #1,092
more people are together the more they buy together, more pictures of places you were together, more involved with each other . . ..

victim blame - why victims tend to be flaky - sometimes they won't show up in court, don't do interviews, change description of someone . . . . we tend to blame victims more for their own victimization . . . . if you are a victim i can say well you didn't lock your door . . . i won't be victimized then . . .

has anyone had their car broken into or house? .. . . .what did the police say when came out . . . was the door locked . . . LEO have to determine the penal code but your friends ask you if door was locked or windows open your friends will say well it's your fault you left your precious things were left open and unattended to be robbed.

can be not subtle at all . . . someone shrugs shoulders or looks @ you particular way . . . you wouldn't have gotten mugged if not walking around in that bad neighborhood.

the more intimate the victimization the more the assault

blame the victim . . . . in sexual assault - how they were dressed, if drinking, who hanging out with . .

in DV . . . provocation should not have said this or done this . . . cause and effect attachment to if you didn't do this it wouldn't have happened.

abusive partner gets mad when other goes out with friends . . . . telling the abuser is provocation? . . . . depends on who it is . . . .could be seen as provocation.

what happened during a couples session . . . . he would be on his computer all the time . . . . she told him he was on his computer . . . he went off his computer and went to spend time with her . . . . she told him go back to computer . . . he berated her told her how horrible mother, teacher, friend she was . . . externalizing the blame - blame other person

when ok for your wife to be angry with you? . . . never . .. . . it is like calling him a awful human being . . . his self esteem isn't very good either . . . .can't treat people bad and feel good about it.

abusers often have low self esteem but not appear that way at all . .. may have power in their life but in intimate situation

i climb icicles, i rock climb, i skydive, i do all that to prepare for scariest thing in my life . . . a relationship.

i didn't lock my windows so I change my behavior . . . i change what i do - I don't smart mouth you . . .. i may blame myself for being victimized . . . .people got robbed or mugged blame self . . . people feel that way . . . behavioral self blame is easier to deal with . . . start to feel better . . . .. change own behavior not changing the partner(abuser) behavior

easier to blame self . . . if I didn't provoke them it wouldn't happen? . . . .early on . . . that is the hope . . . the belief they can change . . . the perpetrator believes they can stop it . . . behavioral self blame

characterological self blame . . . stop blame behavior and blame self. . . . maybe I am not such a good person . . . if I am smart why do i stay . . . leaving. . . what is being done to me something is wrong with ME (not the behaviors) . . . .usually happens after the behavioral self blame

blame own character makes it difficult to leave - don't think you are worthy . . when blame self it is harder to ask for help - so ashamed . . . shame and humiliation keep people stuck in same place.
 
  • #1,093
Hostage Stockholm syndrome . . . . bank tellers who were taken hostage for days . . . started identifying with the aggressor . . . precursor to hostage syndrome . . . 1) perceive a threat to physical or emotional well being . . .2) . .person who making the theat can carry it out . . .3) . . . can be lack of physical aggression . . . . over time relationship stabilizes . . .people go to the restroom talk to each other . . .absence of violence can be seen as kindness . . . pereption gets skewed . . .4) . . when in terrified situation afraid someone hurt you, your focus is on people with power - perception . . .

5) .. most people think they cannot escape . . .. perception you cannot get out . . . if children involved might not be able to get out . . . perception is you can't leave

perception of kindness - not just a perception . . in abusive relationship - people who are abusive are also kind . . .there really is kindness.

how does it apply to DV relationship?
perceived threat of physical violence - also perceived emotional violence - emotional well being is at stake . . . they are going to leave them or put them down . . not just physical . . . if person has done it they are capable of making the threat . . .between episodes there is kindness . . .go on vacation together, enjoy tv together, kindness and bonding going on . . .

makes it really difficult to leave you hope it will stay like that . . .hope it remain connected in that way . . . hope we can keep it like this . . . this evidence of this period of time . . . hopeful again -seeing person as the time when you fell in love . . . . until you stop believing and stop the hope. . . . depends on the person how long it takes

chronic apprehension - people who are substance abusers get a break . . . act out, but people who live with sub abusers never get a break . . . never know when the next shoe is going to fall . . .

develop apprehension believe this will happen again . . .

talk bout steps of how relation like this formed . .. . when he calls you a name first time would you leave . . . it doesn't start immediately . . . . if he hit you on first date what are the chance you would leave - pretty good . . . look @ build up of relationship . . . it is more gradual . . . where things look good and the perpetrator of DV is filled with new love and not filled with fear . . . when relation stabilzes . . . fear comes up.

Lenore Walker - first book . . . Battered Woman . . .1979 . . . cycle of violence . . tension building, incident phase, honeymoon phase - make up and rekindle hope/belief change -flowers and gifts . . . .some people never get a honeymoon .. . or it diminishes over time . . .tension building and episode don't get honeymoon - gifts and apologies don't come (over time).

No magic number of time (ie:2 min tension building phase) . . . depending on relationship you could have long tension building times . . .. tension builds , cycle of violence - that happens in lots relationship have tension have argument and then make up . . . . cyclical and it goes on over time . . . diminishing of being sorry . . . . . not a time you can actually say . . .depends on relationship

relationships that are horrific you can have incidents every week . . most people get a little better break than that. . . . .you see a cyclical nature . . we have tension cuz no money to pay bills this month , I don't like how you spend money and vise versa . . . then we have argument and make up . . . that is the difference . . how it gets resolved.

in Domestic violence the episode would be abusive . . . the person would make up but never really resolution that happened . . . . cycle of violence escalates over time in intensity and freuquency . . . .

in healthy relationship can be resolved but don't do the same thing as you are not coming from the same place. . .

is there a difference in your practice counseling men and women . . . .
actually let's talk fear first

men and women differ in fear . . . . research done in late 80's . . numbers of behaviors that women do for safety precautions they do everyday . . .where they walk, keys out, not get inan elevator alone, . . . men usually do not do that . . .most women in their 30's have had some kind of exchange with a man where they are one down . . . .vicarious trauma . ..don't think about take keys out but I do . . . I do go out wit other people @ night . .. don't go out by self walk @ night . . . .

parents give children different advise to boy and girls about going out @ night.

lots tv shows on - movies where women arebeing stalked . . . . lots of DV or see someone who looks like they have been great all their lives - person suddenly goes crazy and hurts their partner . . . once someone has done something frightening we get more frightened by it . . .

if I was coming @ you and hitting you you might feel like you could grab my arms and stop m but I may not feel that way without an equalizer like a weapon . .. . not that men cant be battered but it takes a little morebecause women tend tobe afraid more quickly.

latest research in heterosexual relationship . . .woman hits a man . . .man laugh it off or be angry more frequently . . . psychological response is different.

if people are reading murder mysteries, seeing things on tv, movies involve stalking women, rape, crimes against women . .. women have a lot of vicarious trauma when they see them . . . can be scared for period of time . .. someone try to get into their house aftr them . . .even months later they are still afraid . .. . a certain specific evening when it was dark out . . show behaviors where they look around . .

anger . . different from women and men are viewed . . . .when are women praised for their anger? . . . generally never or in defense of their children . . .what do people call angry women? . . . .you can guess. . it is a perception - judged more harshly for an angry woman vs angry man . . . . judged harshly for men who look sad . . .women judged for assertiveness.

crossing a cultural norm for women to be angry . . .judged or perceived when out of relationship and saying something not nice to partner . . .. not an emotion . . .not that they don't get angry tend to be less direct with it. .
 
  • #1,094
(sorry missed some testimony)

easier for abuser to talk about when they were little children . . . when 2 young brothers were home with their Dad . . . little boy protected his little brother he pushes his brother out of the way of his dad swinging the knife while coming after them . . .mom comes home and neither child told their Mom . . . 40 years later he is relating this story with tears in his eyes . . . how do you feel it feels like for your family member to feel fear from you .. . you don't ram down their throats you help them to feel those things.

lets talk hypothetic . . .young boy homeless, extreme neglect from parents, unable to clean himself, got teased @ school, his parents were drug addicts, violence between his mom and dad and dad to Mom . . .. even if he didn't see everything . . . as a man in your group . . . what type of things do you see in this man in your group.

you can see a lot of things . . . . lets assume there is no intervention - no adult to count on at a young age . . . it is very difficult for young man to grow up to not have abuse in their relationship .. . .tend feel powerlessness..

objection - lack of foundation . .
may we approach?
 
  • #1,095
child who grows up neglected, can't bathe much, parents are drug abusers, dirty, teased . . .is that abusive? . . . very abusive.

ok - so as this child grows up to be a man
something whether they blame self for what happened . . . what they learned growing up . . . even if you have terrific parents you said I will not do what my parents did . . . sometimes you end of channeling those things you said you would never say . . . because I said so . . those s ort of things

you learn to be fearful . . .where it plays out may not be in your professional life - you are not challeneged @ same emotional level -- you can be successful in your job and have good job but tested most in intimate relationship - what I hear from men I work with . . they get into situation with partner they are thrown back to powerlessness feeling as a kid . . . stop it by getting bigger and more powerful against person that makes them feel powerless. . . kids don't have cognitive ability to explain or say what is happening . . they are left with the feelings that come up when in a relationship and feel powerless . .. . young vs 6 or 7 years old vs. teens? . . . things can be tolerated more when they are little . . . if teen they have a good life and people they can count on . . more of an ability of having a life where little kids cannot . . . infants suffer from failure to thrive . . .all of this kids ere little and had full blown PTSD . . . didn't matter if you were male or female . . they were afraid of adults . . . things tolerated by teens may be very hard to tolerate by a young child.

learn how to deal with relationship without intervention? . . .not specific necessarily but they would not have the skills to deal with an intimate relationship . . .most of us have seen our parents argue and close a door . . but if parents are acting out violently . . . you see that is how you treat someone in a loving relationship. . . I always remember my Dad coming home from work and
Objection - sustained


Combat readiness- Brucy Perry deal with children involved in violent crimes . . . live in family that is a war zone . . .have to be hypervigilent in a warzone . . .see things as threatening that we might not see. . . chronic combat readiness is living your life in a violent family zone flooded with stress hormones and in fight vs. flight . . . not operating from cortex but operating in your reptilian brain . . . .a lo of people who bullied people came from violent families.

men you worked with come from traumatic or abusive families?
my experience has been almost everybody I worked with came from some violent situation in foster care, their parents, their primary caretakers, violent neighborhood. . . research showed somewhere 60-70% . . . . research was done when people lived in violence they were beaten as children and they thought that was ok . . . not 100% but close to it . . .

worst kinds of violence tend to be perpetrated by those who grew up in the worst kind of violence.

afternoon recess until 3:15 . . . . you are excused

please stand for the jury
 
  • #1,096
We are back . .. please be seated and Ms. LaViolette please take the stand
 
  • #1,097
Wilmot & LaViolette . . .
victims often do not actually tell Dr's what really happened .. . what happens when these victims actually come to court to testify
ummm
objection
approach
 
  • #1,098
Wilmot & LaViolette . . .
victims often do not actually tell Dr's what really happened .. . what happens when these victims actually come to court to testify
ummm
objection
approach
 
  • #1,099
Counseled victims who have talked to you about seeking med treatment when they have been harmed or come to testify . . .
yes they have talked to me . . many women don't make police reports, some change their minds after calling 911 and when police come out . . . depends on where they are in that whole progression in their relationship . . .some women actually follow thru with a police report . . . what happens when they are called to testify against perp? . . . I have been told 80%
objection
we had a DV court in Long Beach . . . . a number when women recant how do you have that knowledge? . . . I have talked to people who run battered womens shelters and a DV court for 8 years as did the shelter talk about what they saw and victim advocates in the court . . . what happens when women get to court they recant? . . .frequently there is a long period of time of when case is filed and when it gets to court .. . during that time if couple stays together - many have reconciled . . she doesn't want to testify doesn't want partner to lose his job or on his record, and in Calif there are a lot of penal fines . .. 273.5 injury to spouse must do 52 weeks in perpetratror treatment, probation for 3 years, (sometimes reduced to 2 years) . . . during one year must come back to court to show you are progressing in the program . . affects family financially, also affects the women who the men blame for these expenses . . .. many men are angry @ the women . .. the men still have to pay a fine on a sliding fee scale . . . financially sometimes a burden on the family to go thru that .

how often do these women recant? . . . estimate is about 80% of the time
even get to point of make a report they actually take it back this often?
that is the estimate I have been given . . for some women the court process has been very difficult for them . when they stick their necks out . . . if they report a 2nd time depends on what happened the first time.

they feel blamed. . .adult victims are often blamed . . . . child victims are not blamed . . . they adults are more culpable somehow they are blamed . . . there is a DV unit an they have Domestic Abuse Response Teams (DART) that also send out a child abuse worker they are trying to address this in a more wholistic way wher ethere are children involved.
when someone comes to join your mens group do you do an intake?
yes in my groups I do something unusual because I worked in the shelter I knew the whole story more . . . sometimes we had the medical and police records but I also had the women and children . . . often men and women stories very different. . . important to be able to interview the victim

if the couple is still together - invite the couple to come to the intake but I see them separately . . if victim/survivor doesn't want to come in then I will do it over the phone .. the victim doesn't want to tell me..

Lenore Walker if there are 2 stories and dv in the relationship there are 2 stories and the truth is worse.

men coming in for help they will play down what they have done.

yes - for instance drugs and alcohol in your family . . . men will say social drinkers only have couple of martinis a night . . . female says it is a problem . . . .he says we have one or 2 drinks a night his drinks are in a vat . . . like he is drinking 2 drinks it is like drinking 6 drinks.

most of the time the women are protective of the men they are with . . . for instance i am a mandated reporter and if they report child abuse if occurring and danger to self and others immnent threat . . . limits of confidentiality . . then we talk . . it is very conversational . . . don't have a lot f papers to fill out

ask them same type of questions - to see if there is a big difference in the stories then I have a big problem but if both stories match up a little more - it usually because they are both willing to share and trust

can't think of DV couples I have counseled together. . . for a few reasons
1) hear 2 different versions if they are separated
2) when I bring people back together what might be a good strategy or way to work . . if he is going to participate in my group it is a conflict to counsel together if DV safety of survivor is really important - don't know what we are generating in a couples counseling.

whn a situation is a bad guy they feel their partner is better then they are - only know how to do is level the playing field. . you remember what therapist said about your partner not what said about you.

couples counseling not good for good guy bad guy

3rd if I want someone to change in DV situioation . . I cannot confront that person in front of someone they hurt
they will never change
 
  • #1,100
Counseled victims who have talked to you about seeking med treatment when they have been harmed or come to testify . . .
yes they have talked to me . . many women don't make police reports, some change their minds after calling 911 and when police come out . . . depends on where they are in that whole progression in their relationship . . .some women actually follow thru with a police report . . . what happens when they are called to testify against perp? . . . I have been told 80%
objection
we had a DV court in Long Beach . . . . a number when women recant how do you have that knowledge? . . . I have talked to people who run battered womens shelters and a DV court for 8 years as did the shelter talk about what they saw and victim advocates in the court . . . what happens when women get to court they recant? . . .frequently there is a long period of time of when case is filed and when it gets to court .. . during that time if couple stays together - many have reconciled . . she doesn't want to testify doesn't want partner to lose his job or on his record, and in Calif there are a lot of penal fines . .. 273.5 injury to spouse must do 52 weeks in perpetratror treatment, probation for 3 years, (sometimes reduced to 2 years) . . . during one year must come back to court to show you are progressing in the program . . affects family financially, also affects the women who the men blame for these expenses . . .. many men are angry @ the women . .. the men still have to pay a fine on a sliding fee scale . . . financially sometimes a burden on the family to go thru that .

how often do these women recant? . . . estimate is about 80% of the time
even get to point of make a report they actually take it back this often?
that is the estimate I have been given . . for some women the court process has been very difficult for them . when they stick their necks out . . . if they report a 2nd time depends on what happened the first time.

they feel blamed. . .adult victims are often blamed . . . . child victims are not blamed . . . they adults are more culpable somehow they are blamed . . . there is a DV unit an they have Domestic Abuse Response Teams (DART) that also send out a child abuse worker they are trying to address this in a more wholistic way wher ethere are children involved.
when someone comes to join your mens group do you do an intake?
yes in my groups I do something unusual because I worked in the shelter I knew the whole story more . . . sometimes we had the medical and police records but I also had the women and children . . . often men and women stories very different. . . important to be able to interview the victim

if the couple is still together - invite the couple to come to the intake but I see them separately . . if victim/survivor doesn't want to come in then I will do it over the phone .. the victim doesn't want to tell me..

Lenore Walker if there are 2 stories and dv in the relationship there are 2 stories and the truth is worse.

men coming in for help they will play down what they have done.

yes - for instance drugs and alcohol in your family . . . men will say social drinkers only have couple of martinis a night . . . female says it is a problem . . . .he says we have one or 2 drinks a night his drinks are in a vat . . . like he is drinking 2 drinks it is like drinking 6 drinks.

most of the time the women are protective of the men they are with . . . for instance i am a mandated reporter and if they report child abuse if occurring and danger to self and others immnent threat . . . limits of confidentiality . . then we talk . . it is very conversational . . . don't have a lot f papers to fill out

ask them same type of questions - to see if there is a big difference in the stories then I have a big problem but if both stories match up a little more - it usually because they are both willing to share and trust

can't think of DV couples I have counseled together. . . for a few reasons
1) hear 2 different versions if they are separated
2) when I bring people back together what might be a good strategy or way to work . . if he is going to participate in my group it is a conflict to counsel together if DV safety of survivor is really important - don't know what we are generating in a couples counseling.

whn a situation is a bad guy they feel their partner is better then they are - only know how to do is level the playing field. . you remember what therapist said about your partner not what said about you.

couples counseling not good for good guy bad guy

3rd if I want someone to change in DV situioation . . I cannot confront that person in front of someone they hurt
they will never change
 

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