Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 #2 *ARREST*

[Lindsay Lou Who]

I think she was the animal lover, too. That's why I believe she wanted to open a cat sanctuary on the property. It would have been the perfect place. I don't know that the perp wanted the dog to suffer, but it was obviously killed by a ruthless person who wanted it out of the way. Definitely not an animal lover. If someone close to her was involved in the crime, then they must have had an awful lot of anger inside. Based on the crime scene, it doesn't seem like it was a crime of passion. I would expect it to be more disorganized if she was killed in a fit of rage. Imo

Possibly not a fit of rage more of a deep controlling rage that had built up over time? The murder could have been planned for a few days / weeks.
Is it a possibility if the other recent burglaries had been in the news the easiest cover up is to copy these scenarios?
MOO

 

[Lindsay Lou Who]

When did B give them a tape and a string? He must have gone somewhere to collect them. Or told them where to find these articles. So one was strangling C, one went to collect tape and string and one was holding B at the gun point?

Exactly! It seems none of the details we know add up. It's so confusing!

 

[MsBetsy]

Possibly not a fit of rage more of a deep controlling rage that had built up over time? The murder could have been planned for a few days / weeks.
Is it a possibility if the other recent burglaries had been in the news the easiest cover up is to copy these scenarios?
MOO

Yes, it's possible. But someone else must have been there. There were reportedly unknown DNA samples recovered from Caroline's body so it follows that whoever left their DNA behind is responsible for her murder. Once they can identify who the DNA belongs to they may have more answers as to who else was involved.

IMO

 

[Dotta]

Yes, it's possible. But someone else must have been there. There were reportedly unknown DNA samples recovered from Caroline's body so it follows that whoever left their DNA behind is responsible for her murder. Once they can identify who the DNA belongs to they may have more answers as to who else was involved.

IMO

Police stated that this "orphan DNA" belongs to a carpenter who worked in the house. I wrote about it earlier. On previous page I sent a link to an article with new facts about the therapist - she claims it was police who contacted her.

 

[MsBetsy]

Police stated that this "orphan DNA" belongs to a carpenter who worked in the house. I wrote about it earlier.

I thought that was DNA they found in the house? Are you sure they tested the samples on the body against his? Can you direct me to the article? Not that I don't believe you, I just want to read it. TIA

I'm also wondering what his DNA was doing on her body, unless it was on her clothing.

 

[Dotta]

I thought that was DNA they found in the house? Are you sure they tested the samples on the body against his? Can you direct me to the article? Not that I don't believe you, I just want to read it. TIA

It was in one of the Greek articles. But what is this "orphan DNA"? Sth found in the house I guess. I dont know about any foreign DNA on C's body.

 

[tayaway]

It was in one of the Greek articles. But what is this "orphan DNA"? Sth found in the house I guess. I dont know about any foreign DNA on C's body.

Same. There was no DNA found on C.

 

[MsBetsy]

It was in one of the Greek articles. But what is this "orphan DNA"? Sth found in the house I guess. I dont know about any foreign DNA on C's body.

Orphan DNA is unknown DNA, or "unidentifed." So they could not have found a match if they don't know who it belongs to. It's one of the most important pieces of physical evidence LE hopes to find in a murder case, because it can also rule certain people out, such as the family or people close to the family.

The source is TA NEA.

El AS Stravlos Balakas stated, "We've been doing very well in this investigation," emphasizing that "Orphan DNA samples have been found on Caroline's body." He also said that they do not have the DNA of every known criminal, which is why I asked earlier if in Greece they automatically take DNA from everyone arrested for a felony. If not, it could take longer to find a match.

They found no DNA under her fingernails, but apparently there was enough on her body to develop a profile, or profiles. He didn't say how many, but he did say "samples," plural.

IMO

 

[tayaway]

Orphan DNA is unknown DNA, or "unidentifed." So they could not have found a match if they don't know who it belongs to. It's one of the most important pieces of physical evidence LE hopes to find in a murder case, because it can also rule certain people out, such as the family or people close to the family.

The source is TA NEA.

El AS Stravlos Balakas stated, "We've been doing very well in this investigation," emphasizing that "Orphan DNA samples have been found on Caroline's body." He also said that they do not have the DNA of every known criminal, which is why I asked earlier if in Greece they automatically take DNA from everyone arrested for a felony. If not, it could take longer to find a match.

They found no DNA under her fingernails, but apparently there was enough on her body to develop a profile, or profiles. He didn't say how many, but he did say "samples," plural.

IMO

Do you have the link? ETA: I tried googling it and nothing came up - might be my lack of google skills, or the original Greek needs to be included?

ETA: Thanks, @MsBetsy, I was able to find Patrick's post about it on that page and go from there.

 

[Dotta]

Orphan DNA is unknown DNA, or "unidentifed." So they could not have found a match if they don't know who it belongs to. It's one of the most important pieces of physical evidence LE hopes to find in a murder case, because it can also rule certain people out, such as the family or people close to the family.

The source is TA NEA.

El AS Stravlos Balakas stated, "We've been doing very well in this investigation," emphasizing that "Orphan DNA samples have been found on Caroline's body." He also said that they do not have the DNA of every known criminal, which is why I asked earlier if in Greece they automatically take DNA from everyone arrested for a felony. If not, it could take longer to find a match.

They found no DNA under her fingernails, but apparently there was enough on her body to develop a profile, or profiles. He didn't say how many, but he did say "samples," plural.

IMO

Thank you Maybe I forgot that statement.

 

[MsBetsy]

Do you have the link?

I don't know how to move it up, but I think it's on p34 on Thread 1. It was Patrick Jane who first translated the word, "Orphan" so I can't take credit for that! I wasn't sure either if that's what it meant, but from what the investigator says you can tell he means "unidentified." Anyway, I just quoted the rest from the article. He definitely said they have "samples." If they didn't have any there would probably be no hope in finding a match.

Also, there is another post somewhere where LE explained (I think it was a Greek morning show) that he "wouldn't say there is no DNA, there is a little DNA." Anyway, I always pay attention to what the actual investigators on the case say because there is so much misreporting in some sources.

 

[Dotta]

Can sb translate it please? From 6.00 Apparently one of police officers asks important questions THANKS

 

[MsBetsy]

Can sb translate it please? From 6.00 Apparently one of police officers asks important questions THANKS

I actually think I saw that back there, too. Is it the one where they say the sketch isn't all that helpful? It really is a terrible sketch. It looks like it could be any number of evil comic book characters. I don't think I have ever seen a sketch like that in any investigation.

 

[Dotta]

I actually think I saw that back there, too. Is it the one where they say the sketch isn't all that helpful? It really is a terrible sketch. It looks like it could be any number of evil comic book characters. I don't think I have ever seen a sketch like that in any investigation.

So he talked only about a sketch? I heard he talked about other things too. And who is he? A retired LE?

 

[MsBetsy]

So he talked only about a sketch?

Who? What is the name of the investigator? I only know of two, the one I quoted and the lead investigator.

 

[Dotta]

Who? What is the name of the investigator? I only know of two, the one I quoted and the lead investigator.

The man who appeared in the interview I sent!!!! Maybe we can wait for Patric or other Greek speaking person to tell us what is this interview about

 

[tayaway]

Re: 'orphan DNA' - debate over whether it was found on C's body.

Ta Nea May 23:

The "orphan" DNA
One of the most important elements in the hands of the authorities is the "orphan" DNA samples from the attic of the tragedy. This confirms the presence of other people besides Caroline and her husband in the house.

It is worth noting, however, that until we reach this point it will be preceded by a time-consuming research process, in order to exclude persons who were related to the couple, had visited the maisonette and perhaps left their genetic material there in controversial places, mainly in the attic bedroom, where it all happened.

The points, where the experts of the laboratories that literally "leaf and feather" found the maisonette in Glyka Nera, "found" genetic material, "betray" the presence of an unknown person in the attic, it remains to be seen if it is the DNA of the perpetrators.

There is no mention here of it being on her body, just in the attic.

Ta Nea May 24:

Balaskas: "Orphan" DNA samples have been found
"We are doing very well in the investigations," said EL.AS trade unionist Stavros Balaskas, referring to the course of the investigation into the murder of the 20-year-old woman, emphasizing that "orphan" DNA samples have been found on Caroline's body. "We have to identify the DNA, because we have not received DNA from all the criminals in the country," he added.

Did EL.AS SB actually say it was found on the body or was that a mistake on the part of the reporter? Is the reporter confusing the 'orphan DNA' with whatever they hoped was under her fingernails?

Sun June 4

THE hunt for sadistic thieves who tortured a Brit mum to death has been dealt a blow after it emerged no DNA has been found under her fingernails.

No mention of the 'orphan dna' or dna found on body.

News 24 7 gr June 11:

The only identified genetic materials, fingerprints, etc. belonged to the victim's husband and a carpenter who had done some work at the house on Panagouli Street.

The 'orphan DNA' belonged to the carpenter? There is no mention of DNA on C's body.

...Aside from the May 24 which paraphrases - not a direct quote - the officer saying some DNA was found on C's body, there is no mention in any other article about this (and none in many other articles not cited, like Greek City Times, June 6), so I'm chalking it up to a reporter mistake. There's only been 2 bits of DNA this whole time with regards to C, and that is the 'orphan' in the bedroom, not on her body, and whether there was any under her fingernails. The info changes fast and as details are cleared up, 'facts' like 'dna on the body' get tossed in the garbage. If you can find a recent article that says there's dna on the body and that they're still working on it or solved, then sure, I'll eat my words, without seasoning, ...

 

[MsBetsy]

The man who appeared in the interview I sent!!!!

Oh. I don't know. If it hasn't already been translated here than I have no idea what he said. It's all Greek to me!

I was just wondering who "the man" was. There were some shows in which journalists or other LE gave their opinions about the case but I don't know if that's one of them or if it's an interview with someone involved with the investigation. If it's not already been posted we may have to wait. I haven't seen our translators here in a few days.

 

[Dotta]

Re: 'orphan DNA'

Ta Nea May 23:

The "orphan" DNA
One of the most important elements in the hands of the authorities is the "orphan" DNA samples from the attic of the tragedy. This confirms the presence of other people besides Caroline and her husband in the house.

It is worth noting, however, that until we reach this point it will be preceded by a time-consuming research process, in order to exclude persons who were related to the couple, had visited the maisonette and perhaps left their genetic material there in controversial places, mainly in the attic bedroom, where it all happened.

The points, where the experts of the laboratories that literally "leaf and feather" found the maisonette in Glyka Nera, "found" genetic material, "betray" the presence of an unknown person in the attic, it remains to be seen if it is the DNA of the perpetrators.

There is no mention here of it being on her body, just in the attic.

Ta Nea May 24:

Balaskas: "Orphan" DNA samples have been found
"We are doing very well in the investigations," said EL.AS trade unionist Stavros Balaskas, referring to the course of the investigation into the murder of the 20-year-old woman, emphasizing that "orphan" DNA samples have been found on Caroline's body. "We have to identify the DNA, because we have not received DNA from all the criminals in the country," he added.

Did EL.AS SB actually say it was found on the body or was that a mistake on the part of the reporter? Is the reporter confusing the 'orphan DNA' with whatever they hoped was under her fingernails?

News 24 7 gr June 11:

The only identified genetic materials, fingerprints, etc. belonged to the victim's husband and a carpenter who had done some work at the house on Panagouli Street.

The 'orphan DNA' belonged to the carpenter? There is no mention of DNA on C's body.

Sun June 4

THE hunt for sadistic thieves who tortured a Brit mum to death has been dealt a blow after it emerged no DNA has been found under her fingernails.

Aside from the May 24 which paraphrases - not a direct quote - the officer saying some DNA was found on C's body, there is no mention in any other article about this (and none in many other articles not cited, like Greek City Times, June 6), so I'm chalking it up to a reporter mistake. There's only been 2 bits of DNA this whole time with regards to C, and that is the 'orphan' in the bedroom, not on her body, and whether there was any under her fingernails. The info changes fast and as details are cleared up, 'facts' like 'dna on the body' get tossed in the garbage. If you can find a recent article that says there's dna on the body and that they're still working on it or solved, then sure, I'll eat my words, without seasoning, ...

Well done!!!

 

[Lindsay Lou Who]

When did B give them a tape and a string? He must have gone somewhere to collect them. Or told them where to find these articles. So one was strangling C, one went to collect tape and string and one was holding B at the gun point?

Exactly! It seems none of the details we know add up. It's so confusing!

Yes, it's possible. But someone else must have been there. There were reportedly unknown DNA samples recovered from Caroline's body so it follows that whoever left their DNA behind is responsible for her murder. Once they can identify who the DNA belongs to they may have more answers as to who else was involved.

IMO

I have read in a number of MSM articles, there was no DNA found on Caroline.
It would be near impossible surely to have three perps in the house and not a single trace of DNA.
I believe the 'Orphan DNA' was ruled out as it was the carpenters.