Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 #2 *ARREST*

[Tortoise]

Re: 'orphan DNA' - debate over whether it was found on C's body.

Ta Nea May 23:

The "orphan" DNA
One of the most important elements in the hands of the authorities is the "orphan" DNA samples from the attic of the tragedy. This confirms the presence of other people besides Caroline and her husband in the house.

It is worth noting, however, that until we reach this point it will be preceded by a time-consuming research process, in order to exclude persons who were related to the couple, had visited the maisonette and perhaps left their genetic material there in controversial places, mainly in the attic bedroom, where it all happened.

The points, where the experts of the laboratories that literally "leaf and feather" found the maisonette in Glyka Nera, "found" genetic material, "betray" the presence of an unknown person in the attic, it remains to be seen if it is the DNA of the perpetrators.

There is no mention here of it being on her body, just in the attic.

Ta Nea May 24:

Balaskas: "Orphan" DNA samples have been found
"We are doing very well in the investigations," said EL.AS trade unionist Stavros Balaskas, referring to the course of the investigation into the murder of the 20-year-old woman, emphasizing that "orphan" DNA samples have been found on Caroline's body. "We have to identify the DNA, because we have not received DNA from all the criminals in the country," he added.

Did EL.AS SB actually say it was found on the body or was that a mistake on the part of the reporter? Is the reporter confusing the 'orphan DNA' with whatever they hoped was under her fingernails?

Sun June 4

THE hunt for sadistic thieves who tortured a Brit mum to death has been dealt a blow after it emerged no DNA has been found under her fingernails.

No mention of the 'orphan dna' as it's already been attributed to the carpenter. No reference to pending 'dna found on body' either.

News 24 7 gr June 11:

The only identified genetic materials, fingerprints, etc. belonged to the victim's husband and a carpenter who had done some work at the house on Panagouli Street.

The 'orphan DNA' belonged to the carpenter? There is no mention of DNA on C's body.

...Aside from the May 24 which paraphrases - not a direct quote - the officer saying some DNA was found on C's body, there is no mention in any other article about this (and none in many other articles not cited, like Greek City Times, June 6), so I'm chalking it up to a reporter mistake. There's only been 2 bits of DNA this whole time with regards to C, and that is the 'orphan' in the bedroom, not on her body, and whether there was any under her fingernails. The info changes fast and as details are cleared up, 'facts' like 'dna on the body' get tossed in the garbage. If you can find a recent article that says there's dna on the body and that they're still working on it or solved, then sure, I'll eat my words, without seasoning, ...

I can't do a search for 'DNA' as the word is too short for the search bar, but I've found these two posts by our Greek speakers in this thread -

So, as far as I know, it's a month later, and yet LE still hasn't found any evidence of the existence of the alleged robbers. No DNA, no fingerprints, no CCTV footage. Nothing.

JMO

Or at least that's what they say to the media

 

[Dotta]

It's all Greek to me!

Ha ha! I thought you speak Greek Confusion of this case is contagious.

 

[MsBetsy]

So he talked only about a sketch? I heard he talked about other things too. And who is he? A retired LE?

Oops I quoted your post before you added the last two sentences, but I don't know who he is, that's what I was asking you. I was wondering the same thing! Oh well.

 

[Lindsay Lou Who]

I can't do a search for 'DNA' as the word is too short for the search bar, but I've found these two posts by our Greek speakers in this thread -

Thank you Tortoise, that post from Patrick Jane was what I was referring to. Unless new evidence has been released.

 

[Dotta]

Oops I quoted your post before you added the last two sentences, but I don't know who he is, that's what I was asking you. I was wondering the same thing! Oh well.

Hihihi I want to know what he is saying. Patric HELP!!!!

 

[Tortoise]

So he talked only about a sketch? I heard he talked about other things too. And who is he? A retired LE?

His name is Athanasis Katerinopoulos, and @Patrick Jane introduced him to us with an interview he gave in this post

Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 #2

and translated parts of his interview in this post -

Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 #2

 

[MsBetsy]

Thank you Tortoise, that post from Patrick Jane was what I was referring to. Unless new evidence has been released.

I don't think they are going to release any more details about evidence than they already have. In most cases they keep everything close to the vest and there is always so much we don't know. They did say awhile back that they were getting close, so I'm hoping they are busy behind the scenes putting the case together. We may not here anything more until there is an arrest or there is a major turn in the investigation.

 

[Dotta]

His name is Athanasis Katerinopoulos, and @Patrick Jane introduced him to us with an interview he gave in this post

Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 #2

and translated parts of his interview in this post -

Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 #2

Thank you! The link I sent is another, newer interview with this AK man. I find his views VERY interesting. What a pity google doesnt translate youtube. And Im not going to learn yet another language

 

[MsBetsy]

Ha ha! I thought you speak Greek Confusion of this case is contagious.

No, I don't speak Greek but I have a close friend who is from Greece. When her family is around they suddenly start speaking Greek and I have no idea what they're saying!

But, yes, the most frustrating thing in cases like this is so much gets lost in translation. I think the local news sources from Greece are the best because they tend to be more accurate. Then it gets repeated by other sources and lot of the original details get lost or are misunderstood.

ETA somehow the quotes got messed up, sorry.

 

[Dotta]

Betsy,
Maybe you could ask your friend to have a look at this interview and tell us what AK is saying, please? A friend in need is a friend indeed, right?

 

[MsBetsy]

Betsy,
Maybe you could ask your friend to have a look at this interview and tell us what AK is saying, please? A friend in need is a friend indeed, right?

Haha! I can try but we don't see each other as often since I moved about twenty minutes away. When our kids were little we lived in the same community and did everything together.

Just now I was looking back in the thread for another post but I can't seem to find it again. I did see the interview with Caroline's friend that I mentioned earlier. I was wondering if the whole interview was transcribed, and what else she had to say other than Caroline and Babis were so in love and had the perfect marriage. By all accounts, Caroline was very happy and loved being a mom. It's such a tragedy that her life ended so soon, and in such a brutal way.

 

[tayaway]

Haha! I can try but we don't see each other as often since I moved about twenty minutes away. When our kids were little we lived in the same community and did everything together.

Just now I was looking back in the thread for another post but I can't seem to find it again. I did see the interview with Caroline's friend that I mentioned earlier. I was wondering if the whole interview was transcribed, and what else she had to say other than Caroline and Babis were so in love and had the perfect marriage. By all accounts, Caroline was very happy and loved being a mom. It's such a tragedy that her life ended so soon, and in such a brutal way.

Wasn't she seeing the fake therapist for postnatal depression?

 

[Winterbells]

Wasn't she seeing the fake therapist for postnatal depression?

Quite.

 

[MsBetsy]

Wasn't she seeing the fake therapist for postnatal depression?

True, but only a doctor can diagnose postpartum depression and we don't know what her qualifications were.

Women with depression can still form close bonds with their babies so even if she had depression it doesn't mean she wasn't happy about the baby or didn't love being a mom. Imo

Did any of her family members mention her depression? I would think she would be in frequent contact with her mother after she had her baby.

 

[Winterbells]

True, but only a doctor can diagnose postpartum depression and we don't know what her qualifications were.

Women with depression can still form close bonds with their babies so even if she had depression it doesn't mean she wasn't happy about the baby or didn't love being a mom. Imo

Did any of her family members mention her depression? I would think she would be in frequent contact with her mother after she had her baby.

No-one knows what CC’s state of mind was, and her family haven’t spoken to the press, and why would they. What we do know is that CC sought out a therapist, or her husband or someone else suggested she did, and normally people don’t see therapists because they’re struggling with being ‘very happy’.

 

[MsBetsy]

Exactly! It seems none of the details we know add up. It's so confusing!


I have read in a number of MSM articles, there was no DNA found on Caroline.
It would be near impossible surely to have three perps in the house and not a single trace of DNA.
I believe the 'Orphan DNA' was ruled out as it was the carpenters.

It was the spokesman for the police union, Stavros Balakas, who stated that unknown DNA samples were found on Caroline's "body." If he misspoke, then I guess nobody thought it was important enough to correct him.

The best DNA evidence is when DNA is found where it's not supposed to be. So if the carpenter left his DNA on the body, then I think he has some answering to do.

IMO

 

[tayaway]

Ta Nea June 15:

C's fake psychologist denies once again impersonating a 'psychologist,' places the blame elsewhere, and uses B's letter of 'permission' to validate her breach of C's confidentiality.

 

[MsBetsy]

No-one knows what CC’s state of mind was, and her family haven’t spoken to the press, and why would they. What we do know is that CC sought out a therapist, or her husband suggested she did, and normally people don’t see therapists because they’re ‘very happy’ as you put it.

I didn't put it that way, her friend did. I'm just going by what people who knew her have stated. I was interested in the interview because her best friend might have some insight as to what her state of mind was.

You don't have to be unhappy to see a therapist. Some people go for anxiety, managing stress, problems with their kids, insomnia, and any number of reasons.

Either way, if what police believe is true and the crime was random, then whether or not she was depressed probably isn't a factor.

 

[Winterbells]

I didn't put it that way, her friend did. I'm just going by what people who knew her have stated. I was interested in the interview because her best friend might have some insight as to what her state of mind was.

You don't have to be unhappy to see a therapist. Some people go for anxiety, managing stress, problems with their kids, insomnia, and any number of reasons.

Either way, if what police believe is true and the crime was random, then whether or not she was depressed probably isn't a factor.

Yep. I realised I’d wrongly attributed that remark to you, sorry, and had edited my post accordingly.
I think everything is a factor at this stage. It’s really not clear who is behind the crime or what their motives were.

 

[Winterbells]

@MsBetsy I don’t think it’s accurate to say the people don’t need to be unhappy to see a therapist Anxiety, stress, and insomnia are all symptoms of depression, for example. Problems with one’s children are a major source of unhappiness too. People often don’t want to tell their friends and family that they’re in therapy. We don’t know whether CC and Bs therapy sessions were kept as a private matter that no-one else was aware of until it appeared in the press.
I’d also be interested to know what her friend was saying in her interview. She certainly had a lot to say.