Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 #3 *ARREST*

[MsBetsy]

It wouldn't surprise me if he removed the window before he killed Caroline too. Two and a half hours before the murder he had removed the camera card and destroyed it.

After he completed the murder, he moved on to hanging the dog in 9 minutes, and then had two hours to complete the rest of the staging before he called police.

In two hours he -
thought of everything he now needed to stage and what his story would be, where the money was hidden, what the robbers and their guns looked like, how the robbers had dealt with each of them, how he would use his phone to call out, he wouldn't have time to dream this up after police got there,
tied Caroline's hands behind her
ransacked parts of the house
hid the rings (other jewellery?)
probably deleted his argument/texts with Caroline on her phone and his own over that night and going back many weeks too,
removed the window
moved the baby onto Caroline (for unexplained reasons)
bound his head and tied himself up

It seems to me he raced around completing this with a plan already devised. A window should surely be difficult to remove, and would normally take a workman that amount of time all by itself with a lot of effort to loosen it and break the cement without being able to bang it with a sledgehammer. I don't know, maybe windows are less secure in Greece.

Yes, even the coverup seems premeditated. The last image on the camera was him sitting on the couch with the baby before he removed the memory card around 1:20 am.

Caroline reportedly tried to book a hotel room around 12:37 am, and they had been arguing before that. If Caroline was sleeping for a couple of hours before he returned upstairs to smother her, then he had time enough to think of a plan. Maybe he even removed the screws and the window beforehand.

Another thing that is significant about the timeframe is that it shows there was a "cooling off" period between the time the argument started and the time of the murder. His claim that he acted in a fit of rage doesn't "fit."

IMO

 

[Tortoise]

Yes, even the coverup seems premeditated. The last image on the camera was him sitting on the couch with the baby before he removed the memory card around 1:20 am.

Caroline reportedly tried to book a hotel room around 12:37 am, and they had been arguing before that. If Caroline was sleeping for a couple of hours before he returned upstairs to smother her, then he had time enough to think of a plan. Maybe he even removed the screws and the window beforehand.

Another thing that is significant about the timeframe is that it shows there was a "cooling off" period between the time the argument started and the time of the murder. His claim that he acted in a fit of rage doesn't "fit."

IMO

Agreed. So I think he'd even played this out before that night and possibly AK is hinting the same thing, concerning the prior trips to Crete. B might have even started leading a double life?

 

[MsBetsy]

Oh I see, the bullet proof vest may be because other members of a criminal group may want to stop him from talking.

If true, I would be pretty worried if I was him.

I think it's common for any high profile suspect in a violent crime to be fitted with a bulletproof vest. LE needs to ensure their safety during transport and in prison. Imo

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I'm just remembering a little bit from her diary, where she woke up and was hoping he would ask how she felt.

It does sound like she was craving his love and he was just cold towards her.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Yes and who knows, even if it's not a criminal gang, an outraged member of the public or someone who knew the murdered person might possibly have wanted to attack him.

I think it's common for any high profile suspect in a violent crime to be fitted with a bulletproof vest. LE needs to ensure their safety during transport and in prison. Imo

 

[tayaway]

But his flights must have been according to his company schedules. He couldnt burn the company fuel on private flights.

C's mother said he used to fly out to the island for an hour to spend time with C.

 

[tayaway]

EBM: Ok, on antenna.gr, you can see the vid, "Forced Professions Episode 13" that shows B and the company he worked for, Superior Air, starting at roughly 4:20, but I don't know if you need a membership. The whole vid is on youtube, but it's blocked here.

 

[Gibbo214]

All of this, and especially her desire to get away from him that night, says to me that she has caught him out with another woman. MOO.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

My thoughts too.

All of this, and especially her desire to get away from him that night, says to me that she has caught him out with another woman. MOO.

 

[Estelle]

All of this, and especially her desire to get away from him that night, says to me that she has caught him out with another woman. MOO.

I have often wondered if she phoned a hotel that night, why she didn't leave then. Perhaps he stopped her or there wasn't a vacancy.

 

[Estelle]

All of this, and especially her desire to get away from him that night, says to me that she has caught him out with another woman. MOO.

Perhaps C found text messages on his phone from another woman who lives in Souda (or is planning to meet him there) and is connected to his criminal activities.

 

[Patrick Jane]

I'd like to know who lives in this house in Crete.

When I first heard of it here, it crossed my mind that he rented it for his new girlfriend.

Why not rent a flat or room in the beautiful and romantic town of Chania instead? The girlfriend/mistress angle doesn't make sense to me because the house is in Souda.

Chania - Wikipedia

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I'm not familiar with the area. I had not heard of either town before.

Maybe it was chosen precisely because it would be the last place to expect a girlfriend would be hidden away.

Sometimes you have to think out of the box.

Why not rent a flat or room in the beautiful and romantic town of Chania instead? The girlfriend angle doesn't make sense to me because the house is in Souda.

 

[Patrick Jane]

"Angeliki Nikolouli revealed that another person (other than B) could be involved in Caroline's murder.
Her show-Fos sto Tounel- has dealt extensively with 20-year old Caroline's murder in Glyka Nera, and after the latest developments, it was decided that it would air another episode, although its curtain had came down last week.
Experienced reporter Angeliki Nikolouli revealed important information she had collected, bringing a twist (ανατροπή) about Babis Anagnostopoulos to light.
"I can make public the conversations I had with the husband. We got a lot of clues, the viewers will understand.", she said.
"It doesn't matter at what point I realized that something was wrong, but how we approached him during the course of this investigation. I was his shadow, we had that contact, and you'll see plenty."
What's most interesting is that Angeliki Nikolouli referred to the possibility of another person, other than confessed killer Babis Anagnostopoulos, being involved in the case.
"I share, with a grain of salt, that there's another person involved in this tragic story, and the authorities are investigating to see if it's true. He (Babis) stated that he doesn't have a accomplice."
During the show, mr Katerinopoulos, who knows a lot (about the case), stated meaningfully that "the case is not over".
"The accomplice may not be inside the house. The accomplice could be elsewhere, could be the moral perpetrator of this crime. I want to believe that there will be others who will be charged".
"There's information that Caroline had found out something about B's circle, and that this was the reason she wanted to break up with him and take the baby with her", stated Angeliki Nikolouli, leaving the possibility of a 3rd person involvement open.
"Which one of them ("them" being the couple) traveleved to Souda and was looking for a house to rent, and why?", added mr Katerinopoulos, proving that he has important information that could possibly overturn everything we know.

BBM (bolded by me)

I think we need to put this part under the microscope because it might be as important as the word ανατροπή was to us earlier (in the first thread):

ηθικός αυτουργός

we could also translate this as inciter, instigator, or even as, accessory before the fact

check out this video with AK. (you need to watch the clip from 3:45-5:45 to get the full context, but) specifically at 4:48 the newsman asks him to clarify if he's referring to this phrase, and he qualifies his answer.

How do you interpret this interview (from 3:45-5:45)? Although he never uses this word, the way AK is talking it says to me that for sure (in AK's opinion) B was involved in, what we say in Greek, βρομοδουλειές, "dirty work," in other words, in the context here, criminal activities.

The curtain behind the curtain isn't about some mistress as some here are speculating, it's about "black" money and criminal activities. IMO

AK: C probably found out about these criminal activities and she had to be silenced

The issue and the mystery here then is what kind of criminal activities is AK talking about?

 

[Patrick Jane]

I'm not familiar with the area. I had not heard of either town before.

Maybe it was chosen precisely because it would be the last place to expect a girlfriend would be hidden away.

Sometimes you have to think out of the box.

The other reason why the mistress angle isn't making sense to me is because AK seems to be steering us in the other direction. See my post above.

 

[Estelle]

BBM (bolded by me)

I think we need to put this part under the microscope because it might be as important as the word ανατροπή was to us earlier (in the first thread):

ηθικός αυτουργός

we could also translate this as inciter, instigator, or even as, accessory before the fact

check out this video with AK. you need to watch the entire clip to get the context, but specifically at 4:48 the newsman asks him to clarify if he's referring to this phrase, and he qualifies his answer.

How do you interpret this interview? Although he never uses this word, the way AK is talking it says to me that for sure (in AK's opinion) B was involved in, what we say in Greek, βρομοδουλειές, "dirty work," in other words, in the context here, criminal activities.

The curtain behind the curtain isn't about some mistress as some here are speculating, it's about "black" money and criminal activities. IMO

AK: C probably found out about these criminal activities and she had to be silenced

The issue and the mystery here is what kind of criminal activities is AK talking about?

All I can think about is whether it involves Greek–Turkish relations due to the house being in Souda, Crete. Are these criminal activities a threat to Greece's national security?

Greek–Turkish relations - Wikipedia

 

[Lola68]

B is still trying to control the narrative but thankfully LE are not buying it.

“He is not a loving father, as he wants to appear to the Police and Justice. He is a smart man who has "cold" blood flowing in his veins, otherwise he would not have reached such a form of paranoia and exaggeration ".

"So, when the police took him from the memorial in Alonissos to cross the threshold of the eleventh floor of GADA once again, he knew very well that he would leave there without handcuffs. For this reason, I believe, that he started saying everything on his own so that he would fall - as he thought - softly ", he adds.

BBM
Ήξεραν από την αρχή ότι ο πιλότος δεν λιποθύμησε – Γιατί συνελήφθη 37 ημέρες μετά

 

[Estelle]

All I can think about is whether it involves Greek–Turkish relations due to the house being in Souda, Crete. Are these criminal activities a threat to Greece's national security?

Greek–Turkish relations - Wikipedia

2 Greek Men Face Charges of Spying for Turkey

2 Greek Men Face Charges of Spying for Turkey

MARCH 30, 2021
Mesut Caşın: Mitsotakis is stupid, we will make Crete disappear

Mesut Caşın: Mitsotakis is stupid, we will make Crete disappear - Greek City Times

 

[Estelle]

B is still trying to control the narrative but thankfully LE are not buying it.

“He is not a loving father, as he wants to appear to the Police and Justice. He is a smart man who has "cold" blood flowing in his veins, otherwise he would not have reached such a form of paranoia and exaggeration ".

"So, when the police took him from the memorial in Alonissos to cross the threshold of the eleventh floor of GADA once again, he knew very well that he would leave there without handcuffs. For this reason, I believe, that he started saying everything on his own so that he would fall - as he thought - softly ", he adds.

BBM
Ήξεραν από την αρχή ότι ο πιλότος δεν λιποθύμησε – Γιατί συνελήφθη 37 ημέρες μετά

From the same article:

The cold-blooded killer, as the police characterize him, was even issued an arrest warrant by the judicial authorities as he is considered a fugitive due to his status as a pilot, but also because he was considered a suspect of committing new crimes.

 

[everybodhi]

BBM (bolded by me)

I think we need to put this part under the microscope because it might be as important as the word ανατροπή was to us earlier (in the first thread):

ηθικός αυτουργός

we could also translate this as inciter, instigator, or even as, accessory before the fact

check out this video with AK. (you need to watch the clip from 3:45-5:45 to get the full context, but) specifically at 4:48 the newsman asks him to clarify if he's referring to this phrase, and he qualifies his answer.

How do you interpret this interview (from 3:45-5:45)? Although he never uses this word, the way AK is talking it says to me that for sure (in AK's opinion) B was involved in, what we say in Greek, βρομοδουλειές, "dirty work," in other words, in the context here, criminal activities.

The curtain behind the curtain isn't about some mistress as some here are speculating, it's about "black" money and criminal activities. IMO

AK: C probably found out about these criminal activities and she had to be silenced

The issue and the mystery here then is what kind of criminal activities is AK talking about?

Well, there's a lot of opportunity for speculation; he certainly appears to have the means for money, gun, and drug running, there's a history of heroin smuggled through Turkey's 'Sultans of Smack' to Greece and then to EU networks. Empty houses can be storage facilities, he wouldn't be the first respected businessman busted for this.
Greece on crossroads of international heroin trade | eKathimerini.com

He also has proven himself to have the demented soul of a hitman.
There's plenty of side work available.
Greece alarmed by spate of contract killings
Ta Nea is also alarmed:
“Five executions in two months may not be a large number for a country that has a long history of organised crime. Yet it is hair-raising for Greek society, which is not accustomed to systematic Mafia-style actions or to a daily settling of accounts."
Greek reporter after death threats: journalism targeted by business-politics ties