Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, tortured and murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 #4 *ARREST*

[Dotta]

Other denials from B on Greek TV:

Regarding what is heard about the trip to Souda, he replied: "Like neither I nor Caroline had traveled to Souda this year."

Finally, regarding the publications of the British newspaper about Caroline's diary, "I consider this unreliable because what they publish is untrue. There is no other diary "concluded Babis Anagnostopoulos.

Γλυκά Νερά: Ο συζυγοκτόνος διαψεύδει την μητέρα της Κάρολαϊν για τα έξοδα της κηδείας (vid)

It seems that in case of Souda trip he is telling the truth (however strange it sounds). Both phones of C and B logged in Athens during that period. Although they might have left them behind. I mean, who takes his phone on a shady mission?

 

[Tortoise]

I did not think it necessary to have to add the original Greek here.

It's arguably more relevant than the English translations because it will be what is actually in the report and any Greek speakers in the thread will be able to spot any mistranslations/misunderstandings. IMO

 

[MsBetsy]

Maybe they want to get him for more charges to get a longer sentence?

Yes, the more they can charge him with, the more time they can add to his sentence. I think the biggest problem is the defense claiming it was a crime of passion, but there seems to be plenty of evidence to disprove that. Imo

 

[Dotta]

Yes! DV, and femicide, is not novel, anywhere, and Greece is no exception.
Those women screaming at him when he went to court were organized women's rights activists, they are using this case to bring awareness and try to create change.

ETA, even the ex LE guy we all like, "K" said, "no one kills over jealousy" as if clueless and downplaying about this!

Caroline Crouch: Greece’s #MeToo moment after British woman brutally killed by husband

Protesters..carrying banners..lined up to scream insults at Anagnostopoulos when he arrived in court..

"The cases of femicide are usually the result of years of domestic violence that has not been treated and has not been answered in the correct way” criminologist, lawyer and women’s rights activist Maria Alvanou.

“This man is a monster. He cold-heartedly killed this young woman and then they say he put her child in the bed beside her once she was dead so that the child would stay quiet? There are no words bad enough to describe him.” Maria Zervakis

There was further outrage over media-leaked excerpts from what appeared to be Ms Crouch’s diary..

.."an affront to the deceased’s personality” supreme court prosecutor Vassilis Pliotas

Women’s rights activists were also angered by a reporter from Skai TV who told horrified listeners: “At least he didn’t cut her up and hide the parts.”

Mr AK didn't downplay DV! He used those words in a context: It was a premeditated murder not connected to jealousy - which is usually committed in blind rage. That is what I understood. AK didn't talk about general DV but this case specifically.

 

[MsBetsy]

Mr AK didn't downplay DV! He used those words in a context: It was a premeditated murder not connected to jealousy - which is usually committed in blind rage. That is what I understood. AK didn't talk about general DV but this case specifically.

I thought he was the one who seems to be looking for other motives. He said a husband does not just kill his wife because she asks for a divorce, or something like that. I had the impression he was 'not' associating the murder with DV, and there must be some other reason for the murder. He may be associating a crime of passion with the typical example, when a husband comes home to find his wife in bed with another man and kills in a jealous rage.

A murder stemming from domestic violence does not have to be a sudden act. Premeditation can occur in minutes, or in this case a couple of hours. Imo

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Oh I get it. The poor man is free of his bully wife. No remorse for murdering a defenceless sleeping woman!

What a hero

That is exactly what he's saying, he's playing his battered man defense.
I can't help but wish she had kicked his arse but the coward wife killer strangled her in her sleep, she didn't have a chance.

 

[Dotta]

I thought he was the one who seems to be looking for other motives. He said a husband does not just kill his wife because she asks for a divorce, or something like that. I had the impression he was 'not' associating the murder with DV, and there must be some other reason for the murder. He may be associating a crime of passion with the typical example, when a husband comes home to find his wife in bed with another man and kills in a jealous rage.

A murder stemming from domestic violence does not have to be a sudden act. Premeditation can occur in minutes, or in this case a couple of hours. Imo

AK is sure the motive is not connected with jealousy or DV. With what? He said we will be amazed. He says there are other murders in this case. AK is an experienced LE officer and as such he will be the last person to downplay DV and its terrible consequences. I mean - who if not LE see and deal with them daily??

 

[Dotta]

Oh I get it. The poor man is free of his bully wife. No remorse for murdering a defenceless sleeping woman!

What a hero

Im not sure if it was translated correctly and in context. "Im free" - what does it even mean????

 

[MsBetsy]

AK is sure the motive is not connected with jealousy or DV. With what? He said we will be amazed. He says there are other murders in this case. AK is an experienced LE officer and as such he will be the last person to downplay DV and its terrible consequences. I mean - who if not LE see and deal with them daily??

Yes, I know what he says, I just don't agree with him. I do think the case has everything to do with DV. His claim that a man does not kill just because his wife is leaving is misleading. In fact, this is the most dangerous time for a woman as there is a higher risk for violence and death. Statistics are based on previous cases that LE has been involved in, so I can't imagine why they wouldn't agree. I would think this is the main reason why medical and mental health workers, social services, LE, and activists are so concerned with the high rate of DV. Not only in Greece, but in many parts of the world. In some countries 1 out of 2 women who are murdered are killed by their spouse or partner.

The biggest clue for me is that Caroline tried to check into a hotel just hours before the murder. If what her friend said is true, and there was a history of abuse in the marriage, that's another clue.

Also, Babis himself said his actions stemmed from the fear that Caroline would leave and take the child.

I don't know what AK means by there are other murders in this case. As far as we know, Caroline is the only one who has been murdered.

IMO

 

[tayaway]

Im not sure if it was translated correctly and in context. "Im free" - what does it even mean????

I took it to mean he's free now, since C is dead. He's trying to bolster his story of the battered husband. Like when they asked him what it was like in jail and he replied it was just like home. As if we're going to forget what he actually did and the lies he told. IMO, he had 37 days to write C's 'diary.'

 

[Dotta]

I took it to mean he's free now, since C is dead. He's trying to bolster his story of the battered husband. Like when they asked him what it was like in jail and he replied it was just like home. As if we're going to forget what he actually did and the lies he told. IMO, he had 37 days to write C's 'diary.'

Really?? I know he is disturbed but, nevertheless, his survival instinct works just fine. Why would he say such strange and incriminating thing when a few days ago he said he was sorry and would like to reverse this terrible time. No. He said "Im free" in the context of baby L. I understood: "Im free of anxiety for the baby as she is now with loving family of C." Every word B utters now is meticulously prepared with his lawyer. MOO

 

[tayaway]

Really?? I know he is disturbed but, nevertheless, his survival instinct works just fine. Why would he say such strange and incriminating thing when a few days ago he said he was sorry and would like reverse this terrible time. No. He said "Im free" in the context of baby L. I understood: "Im free of anxiety for the baby as she is now with loving family of C." Every word B utters now is meticiously prepared with his lawyer. MOO

We will have to agree to disagree; his lawyer can't control his malignant narcissistic mouth. It's not incriminating to be finally free from the violent wife. Why would he kill C? Why would he strangle a puppy? Why would he stage a robbery? Why would he fly his chopper above the air of the school of a 14 or 15 year old girl? He doesn't think like you or me. The fact that he said he didn't know Stavros at all is evidence that he is not going to parrot what his lawyer wants him to.

 

[Dotta]

We will have to agree to disagree; his lawyer can't control his malignant narcissistic mouth. It's not incriminating to be finally free from the violent wife. Why would he kill C? Why would he strangle a puppy? Why would he stage a robbery? Why would he fly his chopper above the air of the school of a 14 or 15 year old girl? He doesn't think like you or me. The fact that he said he didn't know Stavros at all is evidence that he is not going to parrot what his lawyer wants him to.

You know - we might argue about things that never happened Im convinced more and more that each "newspaper story" is a figment of imagination of ambitious journalists. What really happened might be uncovered during the trial. But we agree on 1 thing: B's mind is a mystery to us. Thank Goodness

 

[Dotta]

https://www.newsit.gr/egklhma/glyka...u-syzygoktonou-pano-apo-tin-alonniso/3316980/

B and his chopper (video) Questions why was he allowed to use it freely.

 

[Dotta]

We will have to agree to disagree; his lawyer can't control his malignant narcissistic mouth. It's not incriminating to be finally free from the violent wife. Why would he kill C? Why would he strangle a puppy? Why would he stage a robbery? Why would he fly his chopper above the air of the school of a 14 or 15 year old girl? He doesn't think like you or me. The fact that he said he didn't know Stavros at all is evidence that he is not going to parrot what his lawyer wants him to.

Γλυκά Νερά: Τι αποκάλυψε η Τατιάνα Στεφανίδου για τον φίλο του Αναγνωστόπουλου που θα βάφτιζε τη Λυδία [Βίντεο]
In this link it is written clearly :"I am relieved that" baby L.....
Im free=Im relieved
But I have it in Polish in my version. I only "fight" when I know Im right

 

[MsBetsy]

Γλυκά Νερά: Τι αποκάλυψε η Τατιάνα Στεφανίδου για τον φίλο του Αναγνωστόπουλου που θα βάφτιζε τη Λυδία [Βίντεο]
In this link it is written clearly :"I am relieved that" baby L.....
Im free=Im relieved
But I have it in Polish in my version. I only "fight" when I know Im right

Yes, I think he meant his mind was free of worry over what will happen to the baby. Ever since the murder that has obviously been his main concern. Not that the baby will grow up without her mother, but that he won't be able to care for her or she'll be taken away from the family. I doubt he'd say to the press, I'm just so glad I'm free from Caroline! Imo

 

[Dotta]

Yes, I think he meant his mind was free of worry over what will happen to the baby. Ever since the murder that has obviously been his main concern. Not that the baby will grow up without her mother, but that he won't be able to care for her or she'll be taken away from the family. I doubt he'd say to the press, I'm just so glad I'm free from Caroline! Imo

Exactly!

 

[everybodhi]

I thought he was the one who seems to be looking for other motives. He said a husband does not just kill his wife because she asks for a divorce, or something like that. I had the impression he was 'not' associating the murder with DV, and there must be some other reason for the murder. He may be associating a crime of passion with the typical example, when a husband comes home to find his wife in bed with another man and kills in a jealous rage.

A murder stemming from domestic violence does not have to be a sudden act. Premeditation can occur in minutes, or in this case a couple of hours. Imo

That interview is what made me start thinking Babis may be a contract killer. K said we will be shocked/amazed. He asked, how does he kill his wife, put his baby by her dead mother, hang the puppy, and appear calm afterwords? K also asked, what training/experience did he have to be able to do that? /Paraphrasing

 

[Kemug]

It seems that in case of Souda trip he is telling the truth (however strange it sounds). Both phones of C and B logged in Athens during that period. Although they might have left them behind. I mean, who takes his phone on a shady mission?

Actually, a stupid person might.

 

[Kemug]

B says he didn't know Stavros - right there is the proof that he did!