Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, tortured and murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 #4 *ARREST*

[Winterbells]

WOW! What a compliment and from you, Dotta, who doesn't miss a trick. Yes I think the police and media should read Websleuths as we give them leads to follow up. I have been sleuthing since Madeleine McCann went missing as I was in Spain and saw her missing notice at the airport but not on here. I learnt about WS years later.

lol, my sleuthing career has exactly mirrored yours, Estelle.
(I think LE does read Websleuths.
Have you watched 'Don't with cats' on Netflix?)

 

[Estelle]

lol, my sleuthing career has exactly mirrored yours, Estelle.
(I think LE does read Websleuths.
Have you watched 'Don't **** with cats' on Netflix?)

Did you sleuth on the McCann case? I was on the Mirror UK Forum until they deleted it and then we moved to other sites. I learnt a lot from that case.
<modsnip> That case will never be solved. I have not written on that case for many years as it is a waste of time.

Also the day I read about this case on DM, I immediately came here as I knew things just didn't add up. I made my first post saying I suspected him and you advised me to delete it which I did.

I hope the criminals don't read WS.

I haven't watched the Netflix movie. What's that about?

 

[Winterbells]

<modsnip>
There are some crimes that just cry out to be discussed and for me, this was instantly one of them. Sarah Everard was another.

 

[Estelle]

I am in lockdown in Sydney, Australia so I have been staying up late sleuthing as I am following three cases which are very interesting - this case, Melissa Caddick and Marion Barter.

Tonight I decided to do a timeline of some events in C's life which I would like you to help me with as I came late to this case and also to try to understand why and how C got married so young.

TIMELINE OF CAROLINE CROUCH

? Born in the UK to Susana and David Crouch
?Age 8 Moves to the island of Alonissos
? Meets B
? Miscarriage
November 14, 2015 Marries B in Portugal
?baby Lydia is born
?Trip to The Philippines
?Trip to Dubai
?They rent a house in Glyka Nera, Athens
May 2021 C is murdered by B

PORTUGAL I read on this thread once that a member said that they went to Portugal to get married as you can marry there under 18yo.
BUT The minimum age requirements for getting married in Portugal is 16. However, written consent of both parents is required for those aged under 18.
Getting Married in Portugal - All you need to know
To get married, at least one of the couple must have lived in Portugal for a minimum of 30 days. After this period, the couple can obtain a certificate of no impediment (unless you’re a British national, in which case you don’t need this). This certificate will be provided by an embassy for a civil ceremony, or by a priest for a Catholic one.
While civil partnerships don’t exist in the same way as Portugal as in some other countries, there is such thing as a Civil Union (União de Facto) between a couple who have lived together for at least two years.This union basically allows some of the rights of marriage, including your partner, becoming your next of kin, having equal property and inheritance rights, and any Portuguese tax benefits. While you don’t need to officially register for this union, you will need to formally apply to have your taxes assessed as a couple.
There can be a lot of bureaucracy involved in weddings in Portugal, and you’ll need to abide by various laws and provide lots of documentation. The key documents you’ll require are as follows:

• Proof of residence (a passport if you’re a temporary resident)
• A certified copy of your birth certificate issued within the last six months
• A certificate of no impediment issued from a consulate in Portugal, or officially translated into Portuguese if issued elsewhere. This isn’t required if you’re a British national.
• A baptismal certificate if you’re getting married in a Roman Catholic Church.

Once you receive approval to get married, your wedding must take place within three months. Civil marriages are usually booked at least a month in advance and must be conducted in Portuguese, with a minimum of two witnesses watching on.
Wedding fees in Portugal vary depending on what kind of ceremony you have and where you’re from. You might need to pay for each of the following elements:

• Notice of an intended marriage/civil partnership:
• Certificate of no impediment
• Registration of civil partnership
• Making addition/correction to civil partnership registration

You can get an idea of the fees involved for some of these processes by looking at the Consular Fees Table provided by the British government.
Weddings in Portugal: local traditions and laws | Expatica

GREECE The legal minimum age for marriage is 18 years old. Younger couples can get married if they receive special dispensation from a court, which also requires parental permission. You’ll also have to go through a waiting period between your application for marriage and your wedding day. This waiting period will vary depending on the municipality where you choose to marry, but can take anywhere from a week to a few months. For a civil marriage license, you can expect a seven-day waiting period. (They had a civil marriage in Portugal so they could have had one in Greece) Each party to the marriage will need the a copy of the following documents. For a religious ceremony, plan to have two copies each - one for the house of worship and one for the town hall

• • A valid passport
  • A birth certificate with the Apostille stamp certifying the copy
  • An official Apostille translated into Greek, which can be certified by a lawyer, a foreign ministry’s translation department, a certified translator or the Greek consulate from your home country
  • Proof of freedom to marry, or affidavit of marriage, notarised, in both English and Greek
  • A decree of absolution of your previous marriage, if applicable
  • A copy of the local newspaper where your intent to marry was published

Once you’ve gotten all required documentation together, you can take it in-person to the town hall or the president of the community. You can have your wedding planner do this for you if you wish. The marriage license will be issued eight days later, and will remain valid for six months. After your license is issued, you must submit a joint application to the mayor stating where you’d like to marry, and confirming the wedding ceremony date.

Getting married in Greece: A complete guide - Wise, formerly TransferWise

In summary, it appears that getting married under 18 in both Greece and Portugal requires written consent by both parents, a lot of paper work and months of preparation. I still cannot understand why either the parents did not stop them from being married until C was at least 18yo and why C, being a family girl, did not want her family and friends there. They could have then just gone to The Algarve for the honeymoon. Why the hurry if C was not pregnant?

 

[Winterbells]

When CC had her miscarriage is a mystery. If she was pregnant before they got married, and if she had a British passport, I guess they could have met the Portuguese criteria as long as CC had her parents' written consent. It could also explain why they weren't present (i.e. cross about it, but felt they had no choice).

The Sun reckons B claims CC became pregant with her first baby within weeks of getting married:

In a testimony today, Babis explained how that the 20-year-old Caroline went to see a psychologist but then stopped.

It was then her "explosions" that she had with him that made him kill her, the warped husband claimed.

"Caroline became pregnant a few weeks after we got married," he told a judge in an Athens court.

"Unfortunately, when she was three months pregnant, Caroline miscarried, and since then her behaviour had been gradually changing.

"But the catalyst for the change in Caroline’s behaviour was the miscarriage of her first pregnancy.

"From that moment on, she started to have aggressive outbursts and explosions towards me."

Caroline Crouch’s twisted husband claims she became aggressive after miscarriage

 

[Estelle]

I read that someone said she had the miscarriage before she married. Perhaps the "Psychologist". I would believe her over him even though she has been discredited. IMO she is just a Relationship Counsellor. I must read this new link tomorrow.

 

[Winterbells]

I read that someone said she had the miscarriage before she married. Perhaps the "Psychologist". I would believe her over him even though she has been discredited. IMO she is just a Relationship Counsellor. I must read this new link tomorrow.

Sorry, my reason for posting that 'Sun' link is to show that B is determined to demonstrate that the pregnancy and miscarriage occurred after they got married, but the 'a few weeks after we married' makes me wonder if this is a lie and she was, in fact, pregnant when they married.

 

[Omasa4]

@Estelle I don’t know how to reply properly but in terms of timeline I have been following this - this is what I have deduced

TIMELINE OF CAROLINE CROUCH

? Born in the UK to Susana and David Crouch - 12 July 2001 (from her gravestone)
?Age 8 Moves to the island of Alonissos
? Meets B - some people are saying 14, some 15 - I’m not sure where that comes from. I think there was an earlier link somewhere about her being 14 but I had thought 15. Either way they met when she was very very young
? Miscarriage - not sure about the date of this. It’s first mentioned in her “diaries” dated November 2019
November 14, 2015 Marries B in Portugal - I think your dates are wrong here. The wedding in Portugal was July 2019
?baby Lydia is born - this was 3 June 2020
?Trip to The Philippines - I think this was in the beginning of the relationship- circa 2017
?Trip to Dubai - this was May 2021 or end of April 2021 - just a few weeks before she was murdered
?They rent a house in Glyka Nera, Athens
May 2021 C is murdered by B

 

[tayaway]

When CC had her miscarriage is a mystery. If she was pregnant before they got married, and if she had a British passport, I guess they could have met the Portuguese criteria as long as CC had her parents' written consent. It could also explain why they weren't present (i.e. cross about it, but felt they had no choice).

The Sun reckons B claims CC became pregant with her first baby within weeks of getting married:

In a testimony today, Babis explained how that the 20-year-old Caroline went to see a psychologist but then stopped.

It was then her "explosions" that she had with him that made him kill her, the warped husband claimed.

"Caroline became pregnant a few weeks after we got married," he told a judge in an Athens court.

"Unfortunately, when she was three months pregnant, Caroline miscarried, and since then her behaviour had been gradually changing.

"But the catalyst for the change in Caroline’s behaviour was the miscarriage of her first pregnancy.

"From that moment on, she started to have aggressive outbursts and explosions towards me."

Caroline Crouch’s twisted husband claims she became aggressive after miscarriage

B is lying. She was 17 when she had her miscarriage. They were not married. From then until the marriage, that was long enough for B to know she became 'aggressive' after the miscarriage so why'd he marry her and why'd he push her to get pregnant again?

I have seen a photo of her with her classmates skylarking. Is it that photo?

However, C's mother (in her 50s?) is much younger than her father (78) and the age of consent in the Philippines is 12. His mother taught C and they had a house on the island. Her father was in the air force so flying was a common interest between the males. I wonder how well the parents knew each other?

But what I would really like to know is why their parents did not attend the wedding. Was it only because they thought the age difference was too great or she was too young? Did they approve of C and B having a sexual relationship? It appears that C fell pregnant and had the miscarriage even before the wedding so they did not get married due to her being pregnant. Perhaps she did not know about contraception! B may have planned it that way to trap her. But maybe they started planning it when she first of all became pregnant. If C had such a close relationship with her parents, it's a wonder she did not wait until she was old enough to get married. I would never have married unless my parents could come.

I would also like to know why C did not like B's parents and had not taken Lydia to see them.

It's about a 5 minute video made for an anti-bullying campaign.

The age of consent in the Philippines or C's mother's relationship does not justify what a 27 year old male did to a 14 year old girl.

Neither of their parents wanted the marriage, so they eloped. Check earlier comments/links. The dress designer talked about it.

Yes, C had a miscarriage at 17. She did not marry B until shortly after she legally turned 18 in 2019.

Of course B trapped her, he groomed her from the age of 14.

 

[tayaway]

@Estelle I don’t know how to reply properly but in terms of timeline I have been following this - this is what I have deduced

TIMELINE OF CAROLINE CROUCH

? Meets B - some people are saying 14, some 15 - I’m not sure where that comes from. I think there was an earlier link somewhere about her being 14 but I had thought 15. Either way they met when she was very very young
? Miscarriage - not sure about the date of this. It’s first mentioned in her “diaries” dated November 2019

?Trip to The Philippines - I think this was in the beginning of the relationship- circa 2017

SBM

B started to pursue C when she was 14. We have evidence of this as people on the island noted that he repeatedly flew his chopper over her school to try and impress her and MSM has given it a tiny bit of attention.

It's been noted in MSM that she was 17 when she miscarried. Is this right, or is Nov, 2019? How do we know it's first mentioned then? Has anyone besides LE looked at her 'diairies'? Ok, say she miscarried in Nov 2019, let's do the math: Lydia born June 3, 2020. That means she'd have had to miscarry and immediately get pregnant, for Lydia to be born and she'd be roughly 3 months premature. Plausible? You be the judge.

Start of their relationship in 2017, when C would've been 15 turning 16? They hooked up at least a year earlier, in 2016when she was 14, with consummation shortly after she turned 15. How do we know? Island witnesses to his predatory behavior with the chopper and an FB post from Sept 2, 2016, just shy of 2 months after her 15th bday (covered by the Tunnel TV show and linked here somewhere in the mountain of links).

 

[Skigh]

Do we know how wealthy Caroline's parents were as I think that could be a reason why he pursued her. Was her Philippian heritage another attraction,did he think she would be more biddable ?

 

[Estelle]

Do we know how wealthy Caroline's parents were as I think that could be a reason why he pursued her. Was her Philippian heritage another attraction,did he think she would be more biddable ?

I think I read that he used to be in the British Air Force, had some association with NATO and was involved in gas after he retired from the Air Force. So he would receive a good pension from the Air Force and the UK Govt and I think Susana owns a laundry.

C's father is so much older than C's mother. She's probably about 55yo and he's 78yo so that's about 23 years older. So maybe it is David Crouch's 2nd marriage. Susana must have had C when she was about 34yo. Is there an older sister and brother?

Often daughters who have older fathers like to marry men much older.

Filipinos in my experience are the most customer service related persons in the world. Nothing is a problem to them and they are willing to please.

 

[Estelle]

Sorry, my reason for posting that 'Sun' link is to show that B is determined to demonstrate that the pregnancy and miscarriage occurred after they got married, but the 'a few weeks after we married' makes me wonder if this is a lie and she was, in fact, pregnant when they married.

Most people simply forget about a miscarriage after they have another child. It does appear that B wants everyone to think that C was not pregnant before marriage. He has to mention it as that is the time he claims that C became aggressive.

 

[Dotta]

Χαρμάνης σε ΣΚΑΪ: Η μητέρα της Κάρολαϊν έδωσε 20.000€ στον πιλότο 10 μέρες πριν τη δολοφονία | ΣΚΑΪ

Money from mother of C again

 

[Tortoise]

Χαρμάνης σε ΣΚΑΪ: Η μητέρα της Κάρολαϊν έδωσε 20.000€ στον πιλότο 10 μέρες πριν τη δολοφονία | ΣΚΑΪ

Money from mother of C again

Of course! Don't you know the robbers cleaned out his house!

 

[Dotta]

Of course! Don't you know the robbers cleaned out his house!

But there is 20K 10 days before the murder. Was it for the plot of land or sth else? My head is spinning with all these money donations

 

[Estelle]

Thank you Omasa4,

TIMELINE OF CAROLINE CROUCH (edited)

12 July 2001 Born in the UK to Susana and David Crouch
2009 Moves to the island of Alonissos age 8
B's mother is one of her teachers
2015 C Meets B when 14-15yo. B starts flying his helicopter over the school to impress her.
2017 Trip to The Philippines
?Miscarriage
July 2019 - Wedding in Portugal
?They rent a house in Glyka Nera, Athens
Falls pregnant with Lydia
3 June 2020 baby Lydia is born premature birth
April/May 2021 Trip to Dubai
May 2021 C is murdered by B

CORRECTION: I GOT THIS (below) FROM C'S FACEBOOK PAGE. I ASSUMED IT WAS HER MARRIAGE DATE AS NOBODY USUALLY PUTS ANOTHER PERSON'S WEDDING DATE ON FB. .
Married Faidra Karoutsou
November 14, 2015

 

[Dotta]

New info at the end of this article

Έγκλημα στα Γλυκά Νερά: «Σκελετούς» από τις ντουλάπες της μεζονέτας... Τα 100.000 ευρώ από την άγνωστη πώληση οικοπέδου και η απάντηση για τα ναρκωτικά

Glyka Nera crime: 100,000 euros from the unknown sale of a plot of land by Babi's mother!

Crime in Glyka Nera: As revealed by the show LIVE NEWS, in MEGA the pilot, however, had another income. In particular, the mother of Babis Anagnostopoulos sold her paternal home located in Larissa, in order to contribute financially to the purchase of the plot.
The money they received from the sale amounted to 100,000 euros , which were shared equally between Babis Anagnostopoulos and his brother, and an amount was kept by his family.

At the same time, the announcement of their wedding came to light, published in May 2019 by the newspaper Amarysia, which clearly states the names of Babi and Caroline, as well as the location.

 

[Dotta]

According to Greek press Mr AK is being bullied And his blog was hacked and broke down. He isnt invited to this Tounel Programme any more I hope he is safe!

 

[tayaway]

New info at the end of this article

Έγκλημα στα Γλυκά Νερά: «Σκελετούς» από τις ντουλάπες της μεζονέτας... Τα 100.000 ευρώ από την άγνωστη πώληση οικοπέδου και η απάντηση για τα ναρκωτικά

SBM

At the same time, the announcement of their wedding came to light, published in May 2019 by the newspaper Amarysia, which clearly states the names of Babi and Caroline, as well as the location.

That must be a typo, C herself on her FB page lists her wedding day as July 15, 2019.