Gun Control Debate #2

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  • #461
The Parkland Students Aren't Going Away
American teens are shaping a new kind of debate about gun violence—but why now?

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2018/02/the-parkland-students-arent-going-away/554159/

Countless factors could explain why their activism on gun control has so quickly evolved into a national movement. And one could be Parkland’s demographics.

People in Parkland tend to be well-off. The median household income in the city is just over $128,000, according to census data, compared with less than $53,000 for the (massive) surrounding Broward County. Marjory Stoneman Douglas High, or MSD, reflects this relative wealth: Fewer than 23 percent of its students during the 2015-16 school year received free or reduced-price lunch, compared with close to 64 percent of students across Broward County Public Schools.

That comparable affluence could be key to understanding why Never Again’s youth leaders seem to be building so much political clout in a debate that until now seemed impossibly stuck. (And, realistically, may still be.) It could also be key to understanding why similar efforts led by disadvantaged youth in recent years have gained little, if any, meaningful traction.

“It’s mind-blowing that while [the Parkland students] are still in the first days of dealing with trauma, anger, grief, they’re putting it toward really careful and thoughtful political and civic action—it’s just amazing,” said Meira Levinson, a Harvard Graduate School of Education professor whose research focuses on civic education and youth empowerment. “At the same time, it’s also important to recognize that other young people have done this [activism] also within days—they’re experiencing the same grief—and haven’t gotten the attention that these [Parkland] students have.”
 
  • #462
  • #463
I've noticed a theme in some posts that I'm going to call "the good old days" theme. People saying "it wasn't like that in my day" and that society is much worse now. As a criminologist it is a recognised phenomena called declinism, that people tend to recall earlier times of their lives in a much more positive way than it actually was. I'm at work so I don't have the time or capability to link up to a bunch or empirical evidence, but I have a link here that explains it fairly easily.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo.../declinism-why-you-think-america-is-in-crisis

While school shootings are definitely on the increase, I just wanted to highlight this phenomena since some people have raised the "good old days" thing on here.
 
  • #464
So only gun violence from semi auto rifles needs to be addressed?

All gun violence needs to be addressed. But, for me, the damage caused by the rifles such as the AR-15 used in Parkland (see my posts from surgeons) this is a major priority. Do you have a priority list for handguns legislation or semi-automatic rifle legislation?
 
  • #465
If no one got hurt, there is no need to be concerned?
I think you misunderstand my point. Lumping them all together mskes it seem as if it were 18 Adam Lanzas. Thats not the case. Two were actuality peace officers who accidentally discharged their firearm, for example. Same with Dogsbite.org they dont tell the entire story. Just lump them all together. Did you read the entire article?

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  • #466
What you're calling them is pretty dang accurate. The AR-15 is the non-semi version of the M16 (link posted upthread), which was designed for jungle warfare in Vietnam. So yes, that was their intended purpose. And looks to be a similar ethos to how mass shooters choose to use them in the US today. They are not fully automatic, but easily modified to become the "next best thing" — some say the Vegas shooter squeezed out hundreds of rounds per minute.

The less-political term, maybe (?), is high-power semiautomatic rife. They also are compatible with large-capacity ammunition magazines (generally considered 10 or more rounds). IMO

I'm no expert, though.

Links upthread (and posted at least a couple times in the first thread).

BBM

The statement that I bolded is not accurate.

The origins of the M16 rifle lay in the research, conducted soon after the Korean war by Operations Research Office (ORO), founded at Hopking University and sponsored by US Army. Among the reports, produced by the ORO, two are most significant in this respect, the so called Hall and Hitchmann reports. One report stressed the fact that most hits, achieved by soldiers in battle, were made at relatively short ranges (within 300 meters) and, mostly, at random.

Enter the Armalite. In the year of 1957 The US Army requests the Armalite Division of the Fairchild Aircraft Corp to develop a rifle of .22 caliber, lightweight, select-fire, and capable to penetrate the standard steel helmet at 500 meters. The Eugene Stoner, then a designer at the Armalite, began to develop this rifle, based on his earlier design, 7.62mm AR-10 battle rifle.

The design of the AR-10/AR-15/M16 had nothing to do with jungle warfare in Vietnam.

https://modernfirearms.net/en/assault-rifles/u-s-a-assault-rifles/m16-m16a1-m16a2-m16a3-eng/
 
  • #467
One gun in one school is one gun too many
Agree, but two peace officers accidentally dischsrged theirs, in school. Again, did you read the article?

"Everytown has long inflated its total by including incidents of gunfire that are not really school shootings. Take, for example, what it counted as*the year’s first: On the afternoon of Jan.*3, a 31-year-old man who had parked outside a Michigan elementary school called police to say he was armed and suicidal. Several hours later, he killed himself. The school, however,*had been closed*for seven months. There were no teachers. There were no students."

From my link.

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  • #468
Just as I figured..some of the children speaking out are getting death threats.
Articles are on Huffington Post, The Hill and CNN. IMO
Despicable

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  • #469
All gun violence needs to be addressed. But, for me, the damage caused by the rifles such as the AR-15 used in Parkland (see my posts from surgeons) this is a major priority. Do you have a priority list for handguns legislation or semi-automatic rifle legislation?

I posted above about the repeal of the Second Amendment. That would cover all guns.

Personally I feel that more piecemeal gun legislation will not end gun violence. JMO
 
  • #470
BBM

The statement that I bolded is not accurate.

Enter the Armalite. In the year of 1957 The US Army requests the Armalite Division of the Fairchild Aircraft Corp to develop a rifle of .22 caliber, lightweight, select-fire, and capable to penetrate the standard steel helmet at 500 meters. The Eugene Stoner, then a designer at the Armalite, began to develop this rifle, based on his earlier design, 7.62mm AR-10 battle rifle

The design of the AR-10/AR-15/M16 had nothing to do with jungle warfare in Vietnam.

https://modernfirearms.net/en/assault-rifles/u-s-a-assault-rifles/m16-m16a1-m16a2-m16a3-eng/
RSBM and RBBM

If the design was to penetrate a standard steel helmut at 500 meters, why do people outside of them military need this gun? Are there not guns that can defend oneself effectively that are not designed to penetrate a standard steel helmut?

If this gun is designed to be so lethal that one can not survive being shot by one, why does it need to be available to the general public besides that the 2nd amendment says it can? Especially when it means that it can be used to kill large amounts of people who encounter a user with one.
 
  • #471
RSBM and RBBM

If the design was to penetrate a standard steel helmut at 500 meters, why do people outside of them military need this gun? Are there not guns that can defend oneself effectively that are not designed to penetrate a standard steel helmut?

If this gun is designed to be so lethal that one can not survive being shot by one, why does it need to be available to the general public besides that the 2nd amendment says it can? Especially when it means that it can be used to kill large amounts of people who encounter a user with one.

Why should people be allowed to own hunting rifles that can kill a person at 800 meters?

Why should people be allowed to own .22 rimfire rifles that can kill people?
 
  • #472
Why should people be allowed to own hunting rifles that can kill a person at 800 meters?

Why should people be allowed to own .22 rimfire rifles that can kill people?

True enough. Maybe they shouldn't if we don't want to draw a line.
 
  • #473
  • #474
  • #475
SBM

The only for sure way to do it is to repeal the Second Amendment and confiscate all of the guns. JMO.

Even then not everyone will give up their guns. They would have to go door to door and take them at gun point. That won't ever happen - oh wait - that's exactly what they did in New Orleans after hurricane Katrina.
 
  • #476
I don't understand.

Maybe people shouldn't be allowed any gun if we (all of us) aren't willing to look at the issue through differing types of mechanisms and their impact on society. But, I could be with you on the idea that all guns for public use be banned. Don't think we could get there but...
 
  • #477
I think the point being made was that maybe people shouldn't be able to own them

Maybe the OP meant to say that we should draw the line. Don't know.
 
  • #478
Even then not everyone will give up their guns. They would have to go door to door and take them at gun point. That won't ever happen - oh wait - that's exactly what they did in New Orleans after hurricane Katrina.
I agree 100%.
 
  • #479
All gun violence needs to be addressed. But, for me, the damage caused by the rifles such as the AR-15 used in Parkland (see my posts from surgeons) this is a major priority. Do you have a priority list for handguns legislation or semi-automatic rifle legislation?

More people are killed by handguns than automatic rifles.
 
  • #480
Maybe people shouldn't be allowed any gun if we (all of us) aren't willing to look at the issue through differing types of mechanisms and their impact on society. But, I could be with you on the idea that all guns for public use be banned. Don't think we could get there but...
I'm not for the repeal of the Second Amendment and banning all guns.

My opinion is that gun control laws on semi auto rifles is not going to stop gun violence.

JMO
 
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