Gun Control Debate #2

[MaryG12]

While we are on the topic of movies and gun violence - am I am going by three year's worth of research on Mr. America here:

(NSFW)

History of Sex in Cinema

..................................

Hays Code 1930

How and why it came into being.

......................................

Gunslinging in the early westerns

Did you know the vast majority of early Hollywood films involving gunslinging were targeted to American youth/family crowd?

William Hart, Tom Mix, Buck Jones, Bob Steele, Hoot Gibson, Harry Carey Sr, Tom Tyler are just a handful of names at the top of the list. While racy films were often deemed as "adults only" audiences, the kids could go to the weekend matinee and enjoy some muscular gunslinging action in movies like "Wild to Go":

So naturally little Timmy, who would never be able to get into a theatre where "Diary of a Lost Girl" would be shown, he would go with his pals to see "Gun Law":

Note: Popular child actor Frankie Darro was often paired with Tom Tyler as his co-star, thus making these movies even more appealing to children. If Frankie could idolize Tom, why not millions of other American children?

Again, guns were still a major part of American culture and there were no school shootings every other week between 1925 and the 1940's.

 

[human]

Expulsion here requires only a school board. Expulsion and out of school suspension leave a kid, home, alone, most often, with lots of time on their hands. Read the Ten Lessons Learned. I was able to make mine sit in the break room at work some days, or file paperwork, but I wasn't always in the office, however, most folks cant do that.

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For special needs? PL94-142 is a Federal law.

 

[human]

My husband and I both have to get to work and are unable to carpool. We need two cars. He works 13 hours a day. If the man wants an SUV, who is anyone to tell him he can’t have one? Or that we can’t have two cars?

We are very involved in his kids education. My 14 year old stepdaughter is a bookworm and constantly has her nose in a book. Instead of it being time for “parents these days” to do this and do that, maybe it’s time for the older people to stop telling us how to raise our kids. FWIW- your generation raised us to be who we are. And yet your generation is constantly criticizing us. It’s crazy how the irony is lost on so many people.

Ha ha. Exactly, I am a grandmother .All of my kids have SUV’s. Driving to work in Minnesota is not for the faint of heart,

 

[human]

I dont like to use Everytown for this rrason:


five of Everytown’s 18 school shootings listed for 2018 happened during school hours and resulted in any physical injury. Three others appeared to be intentional shootings but did not hurt anyone. Two more involved guns — one carried by a school police officer and the other by a licensed peace officer who ran a college club — that were unintentionally fired and, again, led to no injuries. At least seven of Everytown’s 18 shootings took place outside normal school hours.



www.washingtonpost.com/local/no-the...cec3fe_story.html?utm_term=.2b0ecbfe4eb0

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If no one got hurt, there is no need to be concerned?

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

The ATF Is Getting Crushed Under The Weight Of The Gun Industry

Production at U.S. gun companies more than doubled under the Obama administration, with manufacturing totals going from 5.5 million firearms in 2009 to 11.5 million in 2016, the latest year for which federal data are available. Gun sales appeared to go up by similar margins over that period. At the same time, the number of federally licensed gun dealers increased by about 9,000, topping out at 56,754 in 2016, while the number of federally licensed firearms manufacturers more than tripled, according to the ATF.

But with meager resources and no law specifying how frequently the ATF must inspect firearms licensees, or even mandating that it conduct the inspections at all, the agency is fighting to keep up. From 2007 to 2012, the ATF failed to inspect 58 percent of all FFLs, according to a 2013 Office of the Inspector General report. In 2016, the agency estimated that it conducted 9,790 inspections, only about 7 percent of the 137,464 active licensees.

“You’ve got many dealers that haven’t been inspected in five or 10 years, and that can have dramatic impacts,” Chipman said. “I don’t know about you, but I’d probably shy away from eating at a restaurant that was only health-inspected once a year.”

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/atf-gun-industry_us_5a8dc6ece4b0273053a737dd

 

[human]

we are going around in circles. Please click on my screen name and you will see that all of my post are talking about law enforcement, not administration. My first comment mentions that he was never expelled followed by my thoughts on how law enforcement let him and the community down.
Googling NC (spelled out) holds gun to family members will give a list of several stories where both the aunt and first host family reported that he had held a gun to both his mother and brother. I am looking for the article that specifically states to thier heads. If I can find it I will post. Here is the link of a transcript of it being reported to the FBI. http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/FBI-transcript-02-23-2018.pdf

And I, if you want to click on my posts, am referring to your expulsion comment. Does it matter? I do not understand why?

As far as the transcript, she says guns were held to the head. Where is the actual complaint to LE?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I dont like to use Everytown for this rrason:


five of Everytown’s 18 school shootings listed for 2018 happened during school hours and resulted in any physical injury. Three others appeared to be intentional shootings but did not hurt anyone. Two more involved guns — one carried by a school police officer and the other by a licensed peace officer who ran a college club — that were unintentionally fired and, again, led to no injuries. At least seven of Everytown’s 18 shootings took place outside normal school hours.

One gun in one school is one gun too many

 

[kimlynn]

Just as I figured..some of the children speaking out are getting death threats.
Articles are on Huffington Post, The Hill and CNN. IMO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Why It's Time to Repeal the Second Amendment

In the face of yet another mass shooting, now is the time to acknowledge a profound but obvious truth – the Second Amendment is wrong for this country and needs to be jettisoned. We can do that through a Constitutional amendment. It's been done before (when the Twenty-First Amendment repealed prohibition in the Eighteenth), and it must be done now.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politi...the-second-amendment-right-bear-arms-20160613

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Repeal the Second Amendment

We acknowledge the gravity of our proposal. The Bill of Rights enumerates our most cherished freedoms. Any proposal to change the nation’s fundamental law is a very serious matter. We do not propose this course of action in a desultory manner, nor for light or transient reasons. We also acknowledge that repeal faces serious, substantial political obstacles and will prove deeply unpopular with many Americans. Nevertheless, we believe that repeal is necessary and that it is worthy of serious consideration.


Our proposal is in keeping, moreover, with the spirit in which the Constitution was drafted. The Bill of Rights belongs to a document that was designed to be changed; indeed, it was part of the genius of our founders to allow for a process of amendment. The process is appropriately cumbersome, but it is not impossible. Since its adoption in 1787, the American people have chosen to amend the Constitution 27 times. A century ago, leaders like Theodore Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson raised serious questions about the Consti-tution. Amendments soon followed, including provisions for a federal income tax, the direct election of U.S. senators, women’s suffrage and the prohibition of alcohol. The 21st Amendment, which repealed prohibition, established the precedent for our proposal.

https://www.americamagazine.org/repeal-second-amendment

 

[Blef]

Repeal the Second Amendment




https://www.americamagazine.org/repeal-second-amendment

Despite who it is written by (I may not agree with a lot of what they say in general) I think this is a sensible and well written and well thought out as is the Rolling Stone article. Many good points raised in both pieces.

 

[kaen]

I am an educator in a very low income area. I can say that most of the parents I interface with are not their kid's BFFs, are as involved as they can be with their kid's education, and require that second income. Many of my families work very hard to give their kids the best they can. In short, the overgeneralizing of the American family is just not what I see.

To boot, I am an older parent. When my youngest is 18, I will be the age that Lynda Cruz was when she passed. Some of my children have educational and attentional issues. It is hard work to reign them in and do what I can to influence and be a guide (read provide positive supports and punishments when necessary) for them. It is not easy. The world of some of my children is complicated. Medical supports and mental health supports are paid by me out of pocket as no insurance covers what I and medical professionals determined what my kid's need. Currently, I pay almost 1,500 in non-reimbursed/non-insurance covered medical bills each month.

The judgment of older parents and parents of under 25s in general is just not necessary and feels cruel. There are millions of kids out there who never harm another soul and are from older parent and younger parent families. The "culture" conversation, as far as I know, doesn't have longitudinal studies so we can not ask for links but I would ask that anyone saying these things about parents and parenting provide studies (quantitative or qualitative) to say that broad swaths of parents are not doing what they can and need to do in order to raise socially and financially responsible future voting citizens of this country. Some of the access and societal factors that children in this country have is the same as children in other developed countries but the one difference in child violence tends to be access to guns. Focusing on giving parents more support would always be welcome but painting us all with a broad brush is not only unfair but neglects addressing the issues that can support families. The "culture" conversation just takes away from the balance of needed gun control and needed access to mental health care by downplaying the need for anything besides "more of mom's time or more of family time." I wish it were just that easy. If it were, you can bet that most families would have solved it by now.

 

[Blef]

More companies cutting their ties with the NRA

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43181337

 

[Blef]

I am an educator in a very low income area. I can say that most of the parents I interface with are not their kid's BFFs, are as involved as they can be with their kid's education, and require that second income. Many of my families work very hard to give their kids the best they can. In short, the overgeneralizing of the American family is just not what I see.

To boot, I am an older parent. When my youngest is 18, I will be the age that Lynda Cruz was when she passed. Some of my children have educational and attentional issues. It is hard work to reign them in and do what I can to influence and be a guide (read provide positive supports and punishments when necessary) for them. It is not easy. The world of some of my children is complicated. Medical supports and mental health supports are paid by me out of pocket as no insurance covers what I and medical professionals determined what my kid's need. Currently, I pay almost 1,500 in non-reimbursed/non-insurance covered medical bills each month.

The judgment of older parents and parents of under 25s in general is just not necessary and feels cruel. There are millions of kids out there who never harm another soul and are from older parent and younger parent families. The "culture" conversation, as far as I know, doesn't have longitudinal studies so we can not ask for links but I would ask that anyone saying these things about parents and parenting provide studies (quantitative or qualitative) to say that broad swaths of parents are not doing what they can and need to do in order to raise socially and financially responsible future voting citizens of this country. Some of the access and societal factors that children in this country have is the same as children in other developed countries but the one difference in child violence tends to be access to guns. Focusing on giving parents more support would always be welcome but painting us all with a broad brush is not only unfair but neglects addressing the issues that can support families. The "culture" conversation just takes away from the balance of needed gun control and needed access to mental health care by downplaying the need for anything besides "more of mom's time or more of family time." I wish it were just that easy. If it were, you can bet that most families would have solved it by now.

Awesome post. I think you make some very valid points.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Delta
@Delta
·5h
Delta is reaching out to the NRA to let them know we will be ending their contract for discounted rates through our group travel program. We will be requesting that the NRA remove our information from their website.


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[MaryG12]

Repeal the Second Amendment


https://www.americamagazine.org/repeal-second-amendment

Good article, and I like what one of the commenters said:


"Repealing the 2nd amendment is akin to placing a sign on every lawn in front of every home in America, "this house is unarmed.""

It could be just our society, I don't know, but it seems like too many people, at least where I live, advertise what they own and where they live, I have heard conversations as such in places like Publix, right by the entrance/exit.

I am not sure how/why we came to be a TMI society, and I don't know that it is right to blame social media when practically every neighborhood has had its own chatterbox since the advent of the human race.

Oh yeah, and then the person who gave out the info wonder why their home was burglarized. We had a ring from Chicago down here a few years ago. Florida tends to attract a lot of undesirables for some reason, it has become too easy to someone to come down here, commit a crime, then literally disappear overnight.

And speaking of Chicago, I am very surprised that American Magazine article left out that city, seeing that Chicago also has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation. Some recent cases

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...hicago-shootings-violence-20180222-story.html

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...hicago-shootings-violence-20180223-story.html

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...hicago-shootings-violence-20180221-story.html

From the following link:

So far this year, at least 297 people have been shot in Chicago, down from this time last year and 2016, years that saw record levels of gun violence. This year's shootings are above other recent years, according to data kept by the Chicago Tribune.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...eekend-shootings-violence-20180219-story.html

How do make these people give up their guns?

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

NRA slams gun-background system flaws it helped create

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/us/n...ted-in-gun-background-system-invs1033PMVODtop

"This madman passed a background check. How was he able to pass a background check? He was able to pass a background check because we have a system that's flawed," Loesch said on stage. "It is not federal law for states to report convictions to the NICS system. It is not federally mandated. That's the big question, and I wish that this network had also covered this more."

In fact, it was the NRA that led the effort to block the federal mandate, by financing and arguing the US Supreme Court case that let states off the hook. The 1997 decision in Printz v. United States threw out part of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, and made it optional for local courts, police departments and states to submit background information on residents.

 

[rsd1200]

This is so horrifying. These guns make surviving an attack with this weapon so much lower. On this basis alone, these weapons should not be available to people.

"The AR-15, the semiautomatic rifle used at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in the deadliest high school shooting in U.S. history, uses bullets that can cause softball-sized exit wounds, leaving behind a significantly larger trail of mangled tissue compared to handgun bullets.

For trauma surgeons, the injuries are harder to repair. For victims, the chances of survival are lower.

“We’re surgeons, we’re not gods,” said Dr. Nicholas Namias, the director of Ryder Trauma Center at Jackson Memorial Hospital in Miami, which treats about 400 serious gunshot injuries every year. “If you have an injury from a bullet going through an artery at a low velocity, you repair it and go on your way. If you have a high velocity bullet, now you have a huge cavity. Imagine a cavity the size of your fist where everything that should have been there no longer is. How do you fix that?”

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article201949054.html#storylink=cpy

We discussed the high velocity bullets, and possibly having those restricted, w/other semi owning friends. We dont use them, personally. Ultimately, we agreed, that if you are shot 2-3 times, center mass (as LE is trained to do), chances are, you are going to bleed out. Again, most of these school shooters have trained at the range, have unfettered access to firearms in the home, and likely have played super realistic video games too. Id not want to go up against them.

Just one list of ten first person war games.

www.thetoptens.com/most-realistic-fps//URL] Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[rsd1200]

Maybe it is time to move out of our desensitized culture.

Time to get America's children grounded into reality.

Time to get real parenting at the forefront once again. No more "my child is my BFF", a married woman's BFF should be her husband (like I have), not her offspring. Time for not only discipline from parents and teachers, but also teaching children self-discipline, the key ingredient required for achieving many goals.

Time for parents to get off their mobile devices, spend quality time with the children. This is all part of the grounding into reality exercise. Forego a second full-time income if necessary, or only do part-time. Time for these people to ask themselves if they really need to eat out all the time, or have that second SUV (BTW nobody in my family has ever owned an SUV; we have had sedans, motorcycles, pickup trucks, even Jeeps. No SUV's). Time to reconsider vicarious living (do the children really want to have and experience the same exact stuff the parents did - usually frivolously? Children can and will develop their own interests in time). Limit children's exposure to popular culture, limit their time to social media. That is time better spent playing outside or hitting the books.

Most importantly (this may be painful for some Americans, certainly no one on WS I am sure):

Get involved with your children's education. Instill a love of reading and learning in them. Make sure the home has a conducive place for the children to study and enjoy a snack or two, undisturbed, no mobile devices or video games present. Expose the children to local interests like Boys Club/Girls Club, scouting, 4-H, etc. Have the children spend quality time outside playing outside, where they can burn off energy, and exercise. There are studies which show that regular exercise aids in the mental concentration and learning process. Structure is desirable for children, and necessary.

And, American public schools need to make Physical Education mandatory once again. it was mandatory back in the 1970's, time to make it mandatory in 2018 onward. Has anyone else noticed how there were very few school shootings during the time period phys ed was mandatory?

So, by the time children are firmly grounded in reality, get their homework done, extracurricular activities done, the family can sit down to a weekend afternoon treat of "Fast Bullets" or "The Blocked Trail".

The bottom line is:

Guns existed back in the 1970's and we did not have school shootings every week. Neither did we have threats made against the schools. We did not have social media back then, but anyone could have written notes, but did not. Education was still taken seriously back then. That is what we need now. Stop allowing the students to run the school, return public schools to local control, get actual learning back into the classrooms. Students don't need to be tested every week, they can return to the two times a year Ohio tests like we had when I was in school.

Guns are not going to be going away completely any time soon.

But we as a society can modify how our children our raised.

Amen!

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[EuTuCroquet?]

Symantec
@symantec

Symantec has stopped its discount program with the National Rifle Association.
10:24 AM · Feb 23, 2018


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