Gun Control Debate #2

[kittythehare]

The AR-15 is what the Second Amendment is all about!!! https://www.nationalschoolsheld.org/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evEg1VNfX3o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IERPxPnHGk https://www.facebook.com/notes/gun-...-guns-save-lives/29695674542/?hc_location=ufi

fact sheet is from 2008 and not thinking the alligator analogy will provide any solace or catharsis.
u tube link will not open for me and unable to see source.

how about this instead? https://qz.com/1214718/what-america...hree-important-words-in-the-second-amendment/

 

[kittythehare]

Here you go. A nice birthday gift?

http://www.businessinsider.com/bulletproof-blanket-for-kids-during-school-shootings-2015-12

If mass shootings weren't such an integrated part of our culture, you'd think The Bodyguard Blanket was an SNL skit or an Onion article. Kids are being gunned down in their 1st grade classrooms, but what can we do? No we're not talking about gun laws, just arm your children with these bulletproof shields!

And their little heads and faces exposed..

 

[kittythehare]

absent dads and alligators already today and it's only 09.30am GMT!


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...2e4b01e9e56bd25bd?ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067

“What we have is moms raising children in single-parent households simply breeding more criminals,” he said in 1994 per Mother Jones.

Nice bloke, eh?

 

[Lulu_la_Nantaise]

absent dads and alligators already today and it's only 09.30am GMT!


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...2e4b01e9e56bd25bd?ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067

“What we have is moms raising children in single-parent households simply breeding more criminals,” he said in 1994 per Mother Jones.

Nice bloke, eh?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_for_the_neologism_"santorum"

Te he.

 

[kittythehare]

https://www.buzzfeed.com/corneliagr...heart?utm_term=.whOmljPno&bftwnews#.jb3qlxEbP

[FONT=&quot]Our intern meets us in the recovery room to update us on our patients. His face is gray, and we assume one of our patients is in crisis. “That was my high school,” he mumbles. “My football coach is dead. I knew a bunch of those kids.”


[/FONT][FONT=&quot]When you’ve held the bullet-shattered heart of child in your hands, the victims of such tragic events are not statistics. They are faces forever seared into our memory.


[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The frozen facial expression of these children is all too familiar for surgeons. It is a rather unnatural appearance, and we see it almost every time we treat a child with a serious firearm injury. The child is awake and can see the tubes and wires they're attached to, and the commotion of doctors and nurses as we come in and out of the room. They are in horrible pain but don't fight or cry — they just sit there in stunned silence.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Of course, mental health screening and treatment is part of the solution. But as surgeons, we see the more urgent need is curtailing the ready availability of guns, the instruments that are the wrecking crews for the young patients we see in the ER in the aftermaths of these horrendous school shootings.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]When active shooter drills have become the norm in our schools, it is well past time to decide as a nation: Do we love our guns more than our children?[/FONT]

 

[kittythehare]

this might or might not pan out.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/blumen...hose-judged-to-be-threats-1519597084?mod=e2tw

Connecticut U.S. Sen. Richard Blumenthal called for a federal law Sunday allowing law-enforcement officials to take away people’s guns if a judge rules they are a threat to themselves or others.
Connecticut passed such a law in 1999 following a shooting at the Connecticut Lottery Corp. in which a gunman killed four people.

Connecticut allows law-enforcement officials to obtain a court warrant to remove guns from people found to pose an imminent risk of harming themselves or others. The judge must take into account recent threats or acts of violence and recent acts of cruelty to animals. Indiana, California, Oregon and Washington have similar laws.

 

[Lulu_la_Nantaise]

I'd prefer to be standing behind a 'good guy with a gun' rather than waiting on LE to come and save me.

What is the visual difference between a good guy with gun and a bad guy with gun? You're the mythical good guy with a gun and you hear guns blasting and people screaming and see two or more guys shooting at each other. Which one is the bad guy? When the police arrive who are they going to shoot? When Anders Breivik killed 68 persons on Utøya he was wearing a police uniform. What do you think will happen if the "good guy with a gun" sees people shooting at a policeman? And what about the good guy with a gun and a lousy aim?

 

[kittythehare]

What is the visual difference between a good guy with gun and a bad guy with gun? You're the mythical good guy with a gun and you hear guns blasting and people screaming and see two or more guys shooting at each other. Which one is the bad guy? When the police arrive who are they going to shoot? When Anders Breivik killed 68 persons on Utøya he was wearing a police uniform. What do you think will happen if the "good guy with a gun" sees people shooting at a policeman? And what about the good guy with a gun and a lousy aim?

The other fallout from the #goodguywithgun propaganda nonsense is this

http://www.fortwaynesnbc.com/story/...m=social&utm_source=facebook_Fort_Wayne_s_NBC

Enter- the ****s, awaiting any opportunity to justify their existences

On Friday Cowan began his watch at North Side High School armed with a handgun. Cowan said he also had an AR-15 on the front seat of his car. He said he plans on standing at the school every day

"We understand he has a right to be out there," Stockman said, "as he is not on our property, but we do not believe it adds to the safety of our students. At North Side, as at all of our schools, we have security procedures in place. In addition, at North Side, we have armed police officers in the building every day."

Does not help at all..

 

[kittythehare]

[FONT=&amp] https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/968073230216032256

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[FONT=&amp]Australia banned handguns in 1996. Since then, they've seen 4 mass shootings.


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[Lulu_la_Nantaise]

[FONT=&amp] https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/968073230216032256

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[FONT=&amp]Australia banned handguns in 1996. Since then, they've seen 4 mass shootings.


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If legislators pass a law restricting gun ownership I am afraid a lot of American will see it as the first chapter of the Turner Diaries coming to life :hills:

 

[kittythehare]

If legislators pass a law restricting gun ownership I am afraid a lot of American will see it as the first chapter of the Turner Diaries coming to life :hills:

I'm well passed caring what they think.
Sudden violent deaths by guns have all kinds of implications, spiritually, mentally and physically.
even one is too many.
I reckon if the guns were taken, America would change for the better..
I'm not there now but I love it deeply..
As these acts of violence with guns continue, I think it's unlikely I will ever return..not because I'm afraid so much as I really do not want to contribute , even in the smallest way, to an economy that will not exercise emergency legislation to protect it's citizens because the image of a smashed little heart in a surgeon's hand cannot spurn effective abolition.(Buzz feed article)


Life is sacred, precious and not ours to take..

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

If legislators pass a law restricting gun ownership I am afraid a lot of American will see it as the first chapter of the Turner Diaries coming to life :hills:

I’m certain there will be some changes & I’m confident Americans will roll with it.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Australia banned handguns in 1996. Since then, they've seen 4 mass shootings.

Likewise the UK banned all guns in 1997 (after our one school shooting) and has had only one mass shooting since, Cumbria 2010.

In 2015/16 26 people were shot dead in total in the UK, 19 the year prior. The US has something like 30,000 gun deaths per year, so 1000 times the deaths, but only 5 times the population.

Will somebody please just do the math(s)!

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

If legislators pass a law restricting gun ownership I am afraid a lot of American will see it as the first chapter of the Turner Diaries coming to life :hills:

I thought Timothy McVeigh already blew the lid off that Pandora’s Box in the ‘90s? Pun intended. It never really went anywhere. IMO

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I’m certain there will be some changes & I’m confident Americans will roll with it.

I hope you're right. I think this younger generation will be the ones to change things.

 

[Spellbound]

From a previous poster here:
When active shooter drills have become the norm in our schools, it is well past time to decide as a nation: Do we love our guns more than our children?

for me, this shouts “it is time for major changes to be made”. Now we move on to how we can do that. Not everyone will get what they want, either side, I am sure.

 

[Spellbound]

I could not decide if this was better suited in this thread or the school discussion.

”Why didn't the officer rush into the school shooting?”

http://www.monroenews.com/zz/sharea...b&utm_source=endwidget&utm_campaign=shareable

What could have been going though his mind that stopped him from going in? And what usually happens afterward to a first responder who fails to respond?

What police are called on to do is not natural,” said Ellen Kirschman, a clinical psychologist who has worked with police departments across the country for more than 30 years. “Instead of running away from danger, they run toward it.”
But police psychologists often encounter a third path: a freezing response.


When our brains perceive danger, adrenaline floods our body. The amygdala, a part of the brain in charge of emotional responses, becomes more active and can overrule the prefrontal cortex, which is in charge of nuanced cognitive functions like complex decision-making. Our senses can become distorted. Many officers describe experiencing tunnel vision or tunnel hearing, where they become entirely focused on something like a suspect’s gun or voice. Their sense of time becomes similarly distorted.
“You are not processing things like you normally would,” Kirschman said.

“When you walk into an active shooter, this is what you’re thinking, ‘either he’s going to kill me. I’m going to have to kill him or he’s going to kill himself in front of me,’” Albrecht said.

“With the budget realities most departments are facing these days, officers like him may only get hands-on training once a year, if even that. That’s not enough. The instincts wear off. Without that repetition, the imprinting of responses to your body and mind, it can’t take place.”

 

[Lulu_la_Nantaise]

From a previous poster here:
When active shooter drills have become the norm in our schools, it is well past time to decide as a nation: Do we love our guns more than our children?

for me, this shouts “it is time for major changes to be made”. Now we move on to how we can do that. Not everyone will get what they want, either side, I am sure.

As an outsider, the problem seems two-fold:


1) the availability in the US, not only of a lot of guns, but above all of guns which only purpose is to kill as many people as possible. [we may own guns in France without toomuch hassle but guns such as the AR15 are strictly off-limits]


2) the copycat effect. The moremass-shootings happen, the more mass-shootings will seem like alegitimate answer for a troubled person's problems.


[I hope I don't sound too sanctimoniousbecause that' absolutely not my goal. Also sorry for the strangeEnglish – just be thankful you don't hear me speaking :wink:]

 

[Tawny]

There are teachers now that CC and would be willing to undergo extra training to CC on school grounds. Nobody is asking or expecting this of teachers just the teachers that are willing and highly trained. IMO

How understanding will America be when a teacher who does not want to carry ends up being "the one who could have stopped this" in the minds of people who don't understanding a single thing about killing?

 

[CARIIS]

Here is a summary of the actual law Trump signed reversing Obama's brilliant common sense law which required acutely mentally ill
be entered into background check.:

The NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007” .

What this did was have folks receiving mental disabilities benefit from SSA be entered into the gun data base.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This incredibly brilliant notion has much merit IMO. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It is very difficult to to get mental SS disability approved .[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]T months and months and months [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Which translates to criteria being mind numbing![/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Much value is placed on -- (ADL's Activities Of Daily Living) . Most of these must be met. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]ADLS are:[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]inability to dress without ones clothing being worn backwards. (as a result of mental illness impairment)[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Inability to understand the importance of brushing teeth showering fingernail maintenance etc . [/FONT](as a result of mental illness impairment)

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Inability to manage a checking account [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Inability to manage urine and feces output in consistent manner [/FONT](as a result of mental illness impairment)

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Inability to insert fork in mouth, understand functionally of knives and spoons [/FONT](as a result of mental illness impairment)

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Inability to manage doing laundry [/FONT](as a result of mental illness impairment)

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Certainly not everyone on SS mental disability qualifies only with these criteria [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]however, the fact is ADL's are huge in determinations.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]On Dec 19 2017 Trump reversed this mandate.

[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Or to put it another way in mid Dec Trump indicated his belief that folks that might not be able to feed self, remain odar free, wash clothes, etc as a result of acute mental illness can pick up machine guns whenever the urge strikes.............[/FONT]

https://www.congress.gov/115/plaws/publ8/PLAW-115publ8.pdf

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...0....0...1..64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.cs4q0nkBlvQ